Arizona requires you to carry your papers

[southsider2k5]

Few thoughts.

 

Not everyone here is planning on staying forever. There are students, people on a temporary work assigment, etc. Actually way more than you think. I don't expect them to suddenly embrace all things American.

 

People have different ways to show their love of country. I never agreed with the America, love it or leave it point of view. We have the right to criticize the government.

 

I guess some of y'all would be unhappy to hear my students signing the Star Spangeld Banner in French, Spanish, and English?

 

Then they totally belong in the second tier of people who should be here. Silly me, I would like to be around people who want to be here. I thought that was crazy until I saw people who wanted to see the Sox lose in May. Maybe the US gets a higher draft pick next year or something?

[Middle Buffalo]

I have no problem with criticizing government. Love it or leave it is stupid, and not what I'm saying. I'm merely saying if it was so great where you're from, why'd you come here at all if it was on a permanent basis. Those coming here on a temporary basis, legally, can continue to do what they want...also not the people I'm talking about.

 

To drop any political correctness here, I'm talking about the illegals who come here for a better life, but still fly that flag they ran from. :usa :usa

 

My Dad left Ireland because he was one of the youngest of 13 kids who grew up on a farm. The oldest traditionally took over the farm from the parents, and the rest had to go out and find work. There wasn't much work in Ireland in the 50s, so he came here. He's a proud American, but that doesn't make him any less proud of his native land. Ireland just wasn't "great" enough to provide him work. Should he tuck the Irish flag away? I guess you think so.

 

Also, how is it that you distinguish someone who is here legally and proudly waves the flag of their homeland from someone here illegally? Is there a color chart (I know Republicans like color charts) available?

[Texsox]

Then they totally belong in the second tier of people who should be here. Silly me, I would like to be around people who want to be here. I thought that was crazy until I saw people who wanted to see the Sox lose in May. Maybe the US gets a higher draft pick next year or something?

 

I'm not saying they do not want to be here, in fact I am certain most students want to be here. I think most business guys getting some overseas experience want to be here. I'm not certain why you would want someone like DBAHO in some second tier or, as others have said (not you) for him to reject all things Aussie.

[southsider2k5]

My Dad left Ireland because he was one of the youngest of 13 kids who grew up on a farm. The oldest traditionally took over the farm from the parents, and the rest had to go out and find work. There wasn't much work in Ireland in the 50s, so he came here. He's a proud American, but that doesn't make him any less proud of his native land. Ireland just wasn't "great" enough to provide him work. Should he tuck the Irish flag away? I guess you think so.

 

Also, how is it that you distinguish someone who is here legally and proudly waves the flag of their homeland from someone here illegally? Is there a color chart (I know Republicans like color charts) available?

 

How's about a nice acronym like liberals like?

 

Illegals

Love

Living

Equally

American

Life

Styles

[BigSqwert]

How's about a nice acronym like liberals like?

 

Illegals

Loving

Living

Equally

American

Life

Style

 

At least liberals know how to spell unlike the Tea Party crowd.

[NorthSideSox72]

How's about a nice acronym like liberals like?

 

Illegals

Love

Living

Equally

Gaudy

American

Life

Styles

Fixed and enhanced.

 

[southsider2k5]

Fixed and enhanced.

 

[Balta1701]

Illegals

Love

Living

Equally

Gaudy

American

Life

Styles

 

That must be an NL lineup, I only see 8 people. Who's on the mound?

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting article on the different approaches that New Mexico and Arizona are taking on this subject. As opposed to SB 1070 in AZ, Richardson and the NM legislature are taking a split approach - more security on the border, but for those immigrants (illegal and legal) that are already in the state, pretty much leaving them alone or even trying to let them become part of society. NM and AZ have different situations of course, but still similar.

 

Which method do you prefer? Or something in between?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Interesting article on the different approaches that New Mexico and Arizona are taking on this subject. As opposed to SB 1070 in AZ, Richardson and the NM legislature are taking a split approach - more security on the border, but for those immigrants (illegal and legal) that are already in the state, pretty much leaving them alone or even trying to let them become part of society. NM and AZ have different situations of course, but still similar.

 

Which method do you prefer? Or something in between?

 

IMO security is a joke. You beef up security and all it does is force border jumpers to go further away from secure areas. It's using a bandaid to cover up an amputation.

 

My problem with the NM plan is that I don't want to let people continue doing something illegal simply because it's inconvenient/difficult to fix the problem. I'm still miffed that (my) tax dollars go to people that don't pay their share (a general dislike of our current system, but especially with illegals). I'm sympathetic to those that are trying to escape bad areas, but at the same time I'm sure drug cartel controlled areas are no worse than the horrible parts of Chicago.

 

My solution to the immigration problem (broad plan):

 

(1) Overhaul the immigration system - with todays technology it shouldn't take 2-4 years to gain some sort of long-term visa/citizenship. Allow extensions on guest worker programs if those workers meet certain criteria. Beef up the requirements, but make it a faster, more efficient process.

 

(2) Back taxes/fines for those that can prove they have been here working for X number of years (2? 5? 10? dunno what the number should be), along with instant guest worker passes and/or priority for citizenship. Everyone else, deportation.

 

(3) the most important step - HEAVY and MEANINGFUL penalties for those people/businesses that hire illegals. Right now it's a slap on the wrist. There's no incentive to stop paying the cheap labor when the penalty doesn't outweigh the cost savings. Make the penalties crippling to businesses so that they wouldn't even think about doing it anymore. No available jobs = no illegal immigration problem.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

but at the same time I'm sure drug cartel controlled areas are no worse than the horrible parts of Chicago.

 

You do realize the police down there are part of the cartel or bought off by them, right?

[NorthSideSox72]

You do realize the police down there are part of the cartel or bought off by them, right?

Yeah, the idea of comparing crime in any part of Chicago to what is going on in Mexican border towns is ridiculous. They aren't in the same ballpark.

 

Although really, that's a side point, and not key to the discussion of what the US should be doing.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

You do realize the police down there are part of the cartel or bought off by them, right?

 

I don't care how bad it is, parts of Chicago (and other parts of the US) are just as bad.

[BigSqwert]

I don't care how bad it is, parts of Chicago (and other parts of the US) are just as bad.

 

Your opinion is just plain wrong.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't care how bad it is, parts of Chicago (and other parts of the US) are just as bad.

What? You cannot seriously believe that, can you?

 

Juarez has the highest violent crime rate of any city outside a war zone IN THE WORLD. Its multiple times over the murder rates of Chicago, despite being much smaller. That's not even counting the scores of events, as noted earlier in this thread, that basically don't happen in the US. Crime in those border towns is far, far, far worse than anything any US city can throw out there.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Your opinion is just plain wrong.

 

 

My opinon comes from Chicago police officers that work the worst parts of the cities and tell me that. And by work, I mean they tred into those territories only when it's absolutely necessary because the gangs there control the streets more than cops do. Does it really make a difference which one is worse when in both situations you can get shot simply by being outside?

[NorthSideSox72]

My opinon comes from Chicago police officers that work the worst parts of the cities and tell me that. And by work, I mean they tred into those territories only when it's absolutely necessary because the gangs there control the streets more than cops do. Does it really make a difference which one is worse when in both situations you can get shot simply by being outside?

Go look at the actual numbers. Your claims are absurd on this topic.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

What? You cannot seriously believe that, can you?

 

Juarez has the highest violent crime rate of any city outside a war zone IN THE WORLD. Its multiple times over the murder rates of Chicago, despite being much smaller. That's not even counting the scores of events, as noted earlier in this thread, that basically don't happen in the US. Crime in those border towns is far, far, far worse than anything any US city can throw out there.

 

I'm not arguing that on a grand scale they're similiar. My point was that while i'm sympathetic to those people, there are people who live in our own backyard that are in a similiar situation (i.e., very real threat of death on a daily basis).

[BigSqwert]

My opinon comes from Chicago police officers that work the worst parts of the cities and tell me that.

 

Oh I see. They must have also worked in Mexico for quite some time to be able to compare the two.

[Controlled Chaos]

Just for reference...more murders in Chicago than soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq this year. Not sure how many murders in Mexico.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just for reference...more murders in Chicago than soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq this year. Not sure how many murders in Mexico.

No, less US SOLDIERS killed in Afghanistan/Iraq than murders in Chicago. Actual murders of civilians in those places are still staggeringly high, with dozens or more killed on many days each week in bombings and such.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not arguing that on a grand scale they're similiar. My point was that while i'm sympathetic to those people, there are people who live in our own backyard that are in a similiar situation (i.e., very real threat of death on a daily basis).

In the very general sense, I agree, we have problems of our own to address here. We can't be solving Mexico's.

 

[BigSqwert]

Highland Park High School scraps team trip to Arizona

[EvilMonkey]

Since Mexico is such a s***hole, and has so many issues with corruption and graft, etc., why isn't Amnesty International, the various joke UN commission or any of the other human rights groups going down there and protesting mexico? I guess it is more important to protest America for our transgressions since we are clearly a more eeeeevil place.

[Balta1701]

Since Mexico is such a s***hole, and has so many issues with corruption and graft, etc., why isn't Amnesty International, the various joke UN commission or any of the other human rights groups going down there and protesting mexico? I guess it is more important to protest America for our transgressions since we are clearly a more eeeeevil place.

You should, before you make unsubstantiated assertions, take a moment and learn what "The Google" can be used for.

Mexico: Community under siege in Mexico

10 May 2010

 

The community of San Juan Copala in southern Mexico is surrounded by paramilitaries. Those trying to break the siege have been threatened, attacked or killed. Despite ...

 

Urgent Action AMR 41/039/2010

Protect migrants in Mexico | Amnesty International

7 May 2010

 

Thousands face beatings, abduction, rape or even murder as they make their way to the USA hoping for a new life.

 

Action Document

Mexico: Further information: Homes at risk of demolition in land ...

6 May 2010

 

Fifteen armed men hired by a local landowning family threatened to demolish a couple's home in an area called Lomas del Poleo, Chihuahua state, northern Mexico, ...

 

Urgent Action AMR 41/038/2010

Justice demanded for attack on human rights observers in Mexico ...

5 May 2010

 

Indigenous rights activist Alberta Cariño and Jyri Antero Jaakola from Finland were killed in an ambush by armed men in the Triqui area.

 

Story

Be A World Champion: 11 defenders, 11 Actions, 1 goal. World Cup ...

1 May 2010

 

As football teams prepare for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, another team is also rising to the challenge, determined to succeed. Stand Up United is an ...

 

Document ACT 30/002/2010

Protect undocumented migrants in Mexico | Amnesty International

30 April 2010

 

Thousands of people every year travel as undocumented migrants across Mexico. They carry with them the hope of a new life in the USA.

 

Action Document

Mexico: Missing Mexicans found, activists still at risk: Further ...

30 April 2010

 

Two journalists and three human rights activists, missing after an attack on human rights observers in Oaxaca State, Mexico, were found on 29 April 2010. However ...

 

Urgent Action AMR 41/036/2010

Mexico: Human rights observers attacked in Mexico

29 April 2010

 

Human rights activists in Oaxaca state, Mexico, are at serious risk following an attack on human rights observers on 27 April, which left at least two dead and ...

 

Urgent Action AMR 41/035/2010

Widespread abuse against migrants is Mexican 'human rights crisis' ...

28 April 2010

 

The Mexican authorities must act to halt the continuing abuse of migrants who are preyed on by criminal gangs while public officials turn a blind eye or even play ...

 

Press Release

Mexico: Invisible victims, Migrants on the move in Mexico, facts ...

28 April 2010

 

Every year tens of thousands of women, men and children travel through Mexico without legal permission as irregular migrants. This document gives facts and figures ...

You'll note that only 1 of those refers to the situation along the U.S. border. That's a full page of reports covering basically the last 2 weeks. Take that and apply it to a period of years...

 

The fact that Fox News may not cover what an NGO is doing doesn't mean the NGO isn't doing anything.