Arizona requires you to carry your papers

[StrangeSox]

My opinon comes from Chicago police officers that work the worst parts of the cities and tell me that. And by work, I mean they tred into those territories only when it's absolutely necessary because the gangs there control the streets more than cops do. Does it really make a difference which one is worse when in both situations you can get shot simply by being outside?

 

Anecdotes from Chicago police officers that don't work in Juarez don't trump reality.

 

And stop backpedalling. You claimed they were equal no matter how bad border towns are.

Edited May 12, 2010 by StrangeSox

[mr_genius]

Which method do you prefer? Or something in between?

 

I prefer a method of going after business that hire illegal workers. I don't buy the "I didn't know they was illlegal!" argument. They know, and if they don't they are idiots and they deserve to go out of business.

[StrangeSox]

I prefer a method of going after business that hire illegal workers. I don't buy the "I didn't know they was illlegal!" argument. They know, and if they don't they are idiots and they deserve to go out of business.

 

Which means they won't take the risk of hiring anyone who might be a foreign national (mostly mexican, maybe polish around this area) unless there's strict Affirmative Action measures.

[mr_genius]

Which means they won't take the risk of hiring anyone who might be a foreign national (mostly mexican, maybe polish around this area) unless there's strict Affirmative Action measures.

 

you can hire foreign nationals. I was at a WiPro (big technology service company) shop the other day. They have like 99.99% of their US work force being foreign nations.

 

But yes, employers will avoid hiring illegals. Which is good.

Edited May 12, 2010 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

you can hire foreign nationals. I was at a WiPro (big technology service company) shop the other day. They have like 99.99% foreign nations working for them here in the US.

 

But yes, employers will avoid hiring illegals. Which is good.

That likely means that they have a sufficient supply of skilled worker visas to meet their demand.

 

There's not nearly enough of those to meet business demand, nationwide.

 

let alone the demand for less-skilled workers.

[mr_genius]

That likely means that they have a sufficient supply of skilled worker visas to meet their demand.

 

There's not nearly enough of those to meet business demand, nationwide.

 

let alone the demand for less-skilled workers.

 

not really. there are plenty of those visas. business say there aren't, but they are bulls***ting. they can fill most of those visa jobs locally if they want. last position i had open i got over 50 very qualified applicants to chose from.

 

labor won't let a big visa program for unskilled labor unless they get concessions; like the employee must be paid more than the normal local wage for the job. this stuff has been brought up before. big business would love a massive guest worker program for unskilled labor.

Edited May 12, 2010 by mr_genius

[Jenksismyhero]

Anecdotes from Chicago police officers that don't work in Juarez don't trump reality.

 

And stop backpedalling. You claimed they were equal no matter how bad border towns are.

 

I'm sympathetic to those that are trying to escape bad areas, but at the same time I'm sure drug cartel controlled areas are no worse than the horrible parts of Chicago.

 

PARTS are. I'm not backpedaling on s***. My point was/is that the worst parts of these border towns and the worst parts of Chicago are equal - they're lawless and the threat of death is imminent. I never said MEXICO = CHICAGO.

[StrangeSox]

Our point is that you have nothing to actually back that up.

[Controlled Chaos]

Our point is that you have nothing to actually back that up.

Whatever...I got his point... I don't need hard data...

[NorthSideSox72]

Whatever...I got his point... I don't need hard data...

Yes, let's not let those annoying facts get in the way of an empty point.

 

Saying we should devote resources here to our own significant problems, I get. Saying that having to deal with illegal immigrants is costly and shouldn't have to happen, I get. Saying there is any similarity in violence between here and there makes no sense at all.

 

[StrangeSox]

Whatever...I got his point... I don't need hard data...

 

His point is wrong because of the data. Why is that hard to understand?

[southsider2k5]

That likely means that they have a sufficient supply of skilled worker visas to meet their demand.

 

There's not nearly enough of those to meet business demand, nationwide.

 

let alone the demand for less-skilled workers.

 

Yet we have 10% national unemployment, and about 20% when you factor in everything. And lets not forget that the rates are highest amongst the lowest educated brackets... In otherwords, I don't buy it.

[Controlled Chaos]

His point is wrong because of the data. Why is that hard to understand?

He said there are horrible parts there and horrible parts here. He's right. He never said factually and statistically Chicago = Juarez. It was probably the most insignificant comment in his whole post anyway.

[BigSqwert]

He never said factually and statistically Chicago = Juarez.

 

but at the same time I'm sure drug cartel controlled areas are no worse than the horrible parts of Chicago.

[Controlled Chaos]

Whoa...I didn't even see that before....thanks for adding your insight.

Let's move on.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Controlled Chaos

[Middle Buffalo]

I prefer a method of going after business that hire illegal workers.

Eventually, I think this is the key. However, I believe we first have to figure out what to do with the illegals that are here now. It's unrealistic to think that any gov't policy will force all the illegals here to return peacefully to their homelands, and even more unrealistic to think that our law enforcement has the manpower/money to control the problem.

 

I don't think we should offer amnesty, but should have some kind of visa solution. This will get illegals out of the shadows. Pay fines, get documented, run background checks, etc.

 

Then, make the policy be that anyone who has not been approved by the government cannot be employed, and fine companies not in compliance.

 

If you fine companies first, you are asking the individual citizen to do the job that we pay the government to do. If that's the case, why have government at all.

 

Local economies are dependent upon the people who live in the area. If you take 500,000 illegals out of Arizona, what does that do to the local economy? If you take 12-15 million illegals out of the US, how will that affect the US economy? And the answer isn't to say that they won't be using gov't resources anymore. The gov't will just find another way to waste money. Like it or not, illegals are consumers. They might send billions of money earned here to their homelands, but they spend many more billions locally.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

L.A. City Council Votes in Favor of Arizona Boycott

[Texsox]

And we continue to fight for minimum wage jobs for Americans while companies get H1B Visas to bring in foreign workers earning 5x or 6x minimum wage. Well maybe those foreign workers can hire our kids and pay them minimum wage.

Yet we have 10% national unemployment, and about 20% when you factor in everything. And lets not forget that the rates are highest amongst the lowest educated brackets... In otherwords, I don't buy it.

[NorthSideSox72]

So now the AZ legislature, and Gov Brewer, have signed off on a bill banning ethnic studies classes in the state. But, the law specifically only does so in response to classes that encourage sedition or the derision of specific racial groups.

 

Basically, they passed an law that can only be enforced by the subjective criteria of when some group of people feels threatend by the teachings in a class.

 

WTF is wrong with these people? I mean, I don't really like the idea of ethno-centric teaching in primary/secondary school either, but this is just ridiclous. Seriously, the level of hate - and yes, its hate - in this country is appalling to me. If some class is being taught that is promoting violence or bad conduct towards a group of people, then they already have the authority to end that anyway. This law achieves nothing in the objective sense, and yet causes EXACTLY the cultural tension they are supposedly interested in rooting out.

 

Unbelieveable.

 

[Balta1701]

This law achieves nothing in the objective sense, and yet causes EXACTLY the cultural tension they are supposedly interested in rooting out.

 

Unbelieveable.

You're pretending the stated reasons for the "carry your papers" law were true, and it wasn't just designed to harass anyone who isn't white. That's why it's unbelievable to you.

[mr_genius]

So now the AZ legislature, and Gov Brewer, have signed off on a bill banning ethnic studies classes in the state. But, the law specifically only does so in response to classes that encourage sedition or the derision of specific racial groups.

 

Basically, they passed an law that can only be enforced by the subjective criteria of when some group of people feels threatend by the teachings in a class.

 

WTF is wrong with these people? I mean, I don't really like the idea of ethno-centric teaching in primary/secondary school either, but this is just ridiclous. Seriously, the level of hate - and yes, its hate - in this country is appalling to me. If some class is being taught that is promoting violence or bad conduct towards a group of people, then they already have the authority to end that anyway. This law achieves nothing in the objective sense, and yet causes EXACTLY the cultural tension they are supposedly interested in rooting out.

 

Unbelieveable.

 

 

The new law forbids elementary or secondary schools to teach classes that are "designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group" and advocate "the overthrow of the United States government" or "resentment toward a race or class of people."

 

tax money won't go towards ones that advocate overthrowing the government or promote hatred of other races. a non issue being sensationalized. these type of racial hatred classes shouldn't be tax funded, that is for sure.

Edited May 13, 2010 by mr_genius

[NorthSideSox72]

[/b]

 

tax money won't go towards ones that advocate overthrowing the government or promote hatred of other races. a non issue being sensationalized. these type of racial hatred classes shouldn't be tax funded, that is for sure.

Oh I agree, but as you say, they can't be anyway. The law achieves nothing in any real sense, other than to enflame certain people.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

You're pretending the stated reasons for the "carry your papers" law were true, and it wasn't just designed to harass anyone who isn't white. That's why it's unbelievable to you.

Its not that I actually think that the law's only reasons for existence were valid - I am fully aware that both of these laws are motivated in part by plain old racism and hatred. IN PART, notice I said.

 

[mr_genius]

L.A. City Council Votes in Favor of Arizona Boycott

 

isn't the city of LA in big time debt? probably shouldn't be spending money in AZ anyways.

[Controlled Chaos]

Highland Park High School scraps team trip to Arizona

Yet it's ok to send children to China.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/12/hoop-...a-safety-fears/