kapkomet Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 06:26 PM) I bet you make more money than me so I'd rather you pay my insurance Probably not anymore. You know, I had to settle and take a big paycut thanks to Uncle Obama not taking care of my job. I'm one of those "underemployed" now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 07:55 PM) Probably not anymore. You know, I had to settle and take a big paycut thanks to Uncle Obama not taking care of my job. I'm one of those "underemployed" now. Don't start with that...at times, I was "underemployed" under Clinton, Bush and now Obama. Not partisan. Anyway, what is the NDoP all about? Is it praying for our country, as in God Bless America? If so, we have a day like that, it's called Memorial Day. If it's just a day of prayer, many religions have that already, for instance, the Sabbath on Friday for Jews or Sunday for Christians. Of course, you can go more...but there is a call for a certain day. I just don't see the need for this day, period...forget the Constitutional issues. Although, I do think it's cool that the US is set up for debates like this and the Constitution can be evolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 29, 2010 -> 06:06 PM) It does? Pray to yourself. Or don't. I don't think it mandates anyone to do anything, like say, buy health insurance. It promotes prayer over non-prayer. It grants government endorsement to praying. No one said anything about a mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 12:19 PM) It promotes prayer over non-prayer. It grants government endorsement to praying. No one said anything about a mandate. Prayer for what? To whom? This is government "endorsement" to praying to a religion? As opposed to mandates from the government to do something, say something, purchase something? Again, where's the line, and why is this such an outrage? (strange, you're not "outraged", I'm just taking the 180 here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Please define non-religious or secular prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 1, 2010 -> 02:55 PM) Please define non-religious or secular prayer. So your definition of "prayer" is religious in nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) So your definition of "prayer" is religious in nature? Yes. Isn't yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I'm curious, which religion is government endorsing or establishing by having a NDOP? With prayer being so general as to convey a word or thought to God or a god, you can pray to anything that you like. Whatever your god is (yourself, White Sox, sports, Athena) go right ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (vandy125 @ May 1, 2010 -> 04:30 PM) I'm curious, which religion is government endorsing or establishing by having a NDOP? With prayer being so general as to convey a word or thought to God or a god, you can pray to anything that you like. Whatever your god is (yourself, White Sox, sports, Athena) go right ahead. So why do I have to be encouraged to engage in a religious activity, regardless of whatever deity we're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ May 1, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) So your definition of "prayer" is religious in nature? Please define non-religious or secular prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) So why do I have to be encouraged to engage in a religious activity, regardless of whatever deity we're talking about? That is completely avoiding my question... You have the freedom to do whatever you want to do. If someone doesn't want to pray to whatever god they do or don't serve (he/she/it/whatever), then don't. Which religion is it establishing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (vandy125 @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:30 PM) I'm curious, which religion is government endorsing or establishing by having a NDOP? With prayer being so general as to convey a word or thought to God or a god, you can pray to anything that you like. Whatever your god is (yourself, White Sox, sports, Athena) go right ahead. Please read this thread where it's been pointed out several times that the government isn't endorsing a specific religious sect, but is promoting religion over non-religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (vandy125 @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:47 PM) That is completely avoiding my question... You have the freedom to do whatever you want to do. If someone doesn't want to pray to whatever god they do or don't serve (he/she/it/whatever), then don't. Which religion is it establishing? What secular or non-religious purpose does NDoP serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:48 PM) What secular or non-religious purpose does NDoP serve? I'm pointing directly at the law, "make no law regarding an establishment of religion". I don't see how this is doing that because you can pray (or not pray) to whatever in the world or out of the world that you want. But heck, if you are your own god, give yourself a peptalk that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I'm just going to add that I do think it is good to think once in a while about what is at the center of our lives, and this is a good day to do that, no matter what it is. I see it more as that than a "religious" activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Why can't we have a national Atheism day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 1, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) Why can't we have a national Atheism day? We can. That's kind of the point I've been trying to make. The NDoP can be praying to whatever you believe or don't believe in, can't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ May 1, 2010 -> 05:43 PM) We can. That's kind of the point I've been trying to make. The NDoP can be praying to whatever you believe or don't believe in, can't it? You can't pray if you don't believe in prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 1, 2010 -> 04:50 PM) You can't pray if you don't believe in prayer. Okay. Don't think to yourself. That little voice you heard, running through your head,... It's just ironic that you all get pissy about the government "condoning" something that SUGGESTS an individual reflect upon something but then it's ok for them to tell you what else to do or not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 1, 2010 -> 05:09 PM) Why can't we have a national Atheism day? I guess technically using the same logic, you can, but good luck to anybody who is openly atheist trying to get elected president to actually try to push that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (vandy125 @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:55 PM) I'm pointing directly at the law, "make no law regarding an establishment of religion". I don't see how this is doing that because you can pray (or not pray) to whatever in the world or out of the world that you want. But heck, if you are your own god, give yourself a peptalk that day. I'm pointing directly to court precedent interpreting what the means. What secular or non-religious purpose does the NDoP serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 QUOTE (vandy125 @ May 1, 2010 -> 03:57 PM) I'm just going to add that I do think it is good to think once in a while about what is at the center of our lives, and this is a good day to do that, no matter what it is. I see it more as that than a "religious" activity. It's not a National Day of Reflecting on What's Important to Your Life, it's a National Day of Prayer. And prayer is a religious activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I started reading this thread than realized I don't even care about this. So I stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 How is praying not religious? It pretty much is, by definition, and in order to make that untrue you have to do some serious logic-twisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Yeah, you have to expand the definition of prayer to something completely non-standard and indistinct from something like "introspection". The same with saying "well you can pray to whatever you want, so it's not religious!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts