4/27 Games

[flavum]

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...wvaafx_kanafx_1

 

Thompson has struck out, grounded into a double play, and made an error. He's human.

[danman31]

Barons won 5-4, blowing lead in the bottom of the 8th, taking it back in top of 9th before giving up one to make it interesting in the bottom half.

 

Gallagher 2-3, RBI, R, BB, K.

Marrero (he's on a roll) 2-5, 3-run HR, K.

Sanchez 2-4, 2B.

Shirek 7 IP, R, K, BB, 5 H.

Corley .2 IP, 2 R in his Barons debut.

[NorthSideSox72]

Barons won 5-4, blowing lead in the bottom of the 8th, taking it back in top of 9th before giving up one to make it interesting in the bottom half.

 

Gallagher 2-3, RBI, R, BB, K.

Marrero (he's on a roll) 2-5, 3-run HR, K.

Sanchez 2-4, 2B.

Shirek 7 IP, R, K, BB, 5 H.

Corley .2 IP, 2 R in his Barons debut.

Marrero getting his groove back on - 7-for-15, HR, 6 RBI, BB in last 4 games

 

Charlie Shirek's April numbers, in 4 starts: 26 IP, 0.69 ERA, 0.62 WHIP, .124 AvgA, 4.9 K/9, 1.7 BB/9, 2.71 GB:FB. K number is still a little lower than you'd like to see, but far better than the 3.2 K/9 he put up in AA last year. He's maybe been the most dominant SP in the system so far, statistically.

 

 

 

[JPN366]

Ramon Castro has begun a rehab assignment with Charlotte.

[flavum]

What's up with Hudson?

 

1 inning

8 hits

9 runs

9 earned

1 walk

2 k

2 hr

 

9.37 ERA. I hope his arm is ok.

Edited April 27, 2010 by flavum

[fathom]

Yikes!

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Hudson did have a huge innings increase last season............

[flavum]

I'm no scout, I won't pretend to be. But his motion has always scared me. His arm goes way back, and then he seems to throw across his body. Have real scouts mentioned this and voiced a similar concern?

[maggsmaggs]

I really hope this doesn't become a "we should have traded him when we could have" thing.

[fathom]

I really hope this doesn't become a "we should have traded him when we could have" thing.

 

Truth be told, I've never been impressed by his stuff. I have doubts about how he'll retire lefty hitters in the majors. With that said, we have no one else being close to ready, so you can't trade him. It's funny, I have the same doubts about Tyler Flowers.

[maggsmaggs]

Truth be told, I've never been impressed by his stuff. I have doubts about how he'll retire lefty hitters in the majors. With that said, we have no one else being close to ready, so you can't trade him. It's funny, I have the same doubts about Tyler Flowers.

I think for me, it's just I can't trust this organization when it comes to play development. Let's face it, we don't develop our own players at all. Gordon Beckham was not a product of White Sox player development, he was just a stud, so I exclude him immediately.

Edited April 28, 2010 by maggsmaggs

[fathom]

I think for me, it's just I can't trust this organization when it comes to play development. Let's face it, we don't develop our own players at all. Gordon Beckham was not a product of White Sox player development, he was just a stud, so I exclude him immediately. B

 

I totally agree with this

[NorthSideSox72]

W-S wins again, this time 6-4. Greene 3-3 raises his avg to .316, Gilmore still on fire goes 4-5 to raise his avg to .397, Bour hitting .444 since his signing. Leesman struck out 8 in 5.2 IP, but also gave up 3 ER on 5 H. He's been kind of all over the place lately with his various numbers. Rem 1.1 IP hold, Santiago a weak inning, Infante 1 IP save.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

What's up with Hudson?

 

1 inning

8 hits

9 runs

9 earned

1 walk

2 k

2 hr

 

9.37 ERA. I hope his arm is ok.

Yikes, I hope so too. Maybe he's working on something? I hope?

 

McCulloch not much better in relief, 3 runs in 3 innings.

 

Castro in his rehab game: 2-3, HR, 2 RBI

 

Gartrell 3-4, HR, 2B, now hitting .316

 

Flowers takes the golden sombrero

 

[caulfield12]

I really think Gilmore would be more of a threat up at the plate than Kotsay right now...sad as it is to admit.

 

Second the notion about Hudson...never really saw him as "special" pitcher or even in the same league as Brandon McCarthy, and the prospects ratings have similarly "dissed" him.

 

Not a great start to the minor league season, except for pleasant surprises like Gilmore, Nathan Jones, Shelby, Salvador Sanchez...the only REAL positive is the Trayce Thompson development process, which will end up being more interesting than the major league roster unless KW guts it. Morel, also has looked very solid from everything I've read and heard. And Danks has started out hot again like he did in 2009, but EVERYONE's convinced he might strike out too much to ever be more than a 4th outfielder, or better hitting version of BA with a little bit more excitement/athleticism to his overall upside. Hopefully Dayan starts to get on a little tear after the breakout game. Escobar's a field gem but we'll have to wait and see how his bat holds up at the upper levels of the system.

 

Mitchell is down and out, Phegley, Hudson is struggling mightily, Gonzalez around .200, Johnny Nunez has fallen off the map, Santeliz is hurt...Flowers, half of the die-hard prospect people are convinced his swing's too long (the Josh Fields/Brian Anderson AAAA bat) and defensively....well, with AJ not hitting a lick, not ever throwing out runners and soaking up payroll AND the supposed best rotation in the AL looking pretty mediocre so far, there's nowhere but up as far as Flowers goes and our present level of performance from that spot.

Edited April 28, 2010 by caulfield12

[Ozzie Ball]

Truth be told, I've never been impressed by his stuff. I have doubts about how he'll retire lefty hitters in the majors. With that said, we have no one else being close to ready, so you can't trade him. It's funny, I have the same doubts about Tyler Flowers.

I'm more concerned about his ability to retire righty's. The movement he gets on his FB/CH is ridiculous and should/has made him very effective vs. LHB, but he lacks a put away breaking ball to retire the righty's. That's my take on him anyway.

[danman31]

I'm more concerned about his ability to retire righty's. The movement he gets on his FB/CH is ridiculous and should/has made him very effective vs. LHB, but he lacks a put away breaking ball to retire the righty's. That's my take on him anyway.

Yeah, he has done well against lefties. Even this year his K/BB numbers are far superior against lefties.

[JPN366]

I'm no scout, I won't pretend to be. But his motion has always scared me. His arm goes way back, and then he seems to throw across his body. Have real scouts mentioned this and voiced a similar concern?

 

After the first time I saw him pitch last year, I was immediately concerned about his arm motion and the stress it may put on his elbow.

[SoxAce]

After the first time I saw him pitch last year, I was immediately concerned about his arm motion and the stress it may put on his elbow.

 

I honestly think something is wrong with him. You don't go from dominating people last year to now can't get an out. Hes a stud when he's on, I just don't think he's right. (unless like someone said, he's working on his secondary pitches) The only thing I hope is it isn't like Bumgarner and you can't find anything wrong with him, but his velocity decreases.

 

Then again.. I could be jumping the gun/blinded. He might of just had a bad outing. (Peavy-like as of right now) He is still striking out 10+ per IP. Still though...

Edited April 28, 2010 by SoxAce

[NorthSideSox72]

I really think Gilmore would be more of a threat up at the plate than Kotsay right now...sad as it is to admit.

 

Absurd. Kotsay is a major league hitter, Gilmore is still multiple years away from being ready. He happens to have a hot hand right now, but let's not get ridiculous.

 

Second the notion about Hudson...never really saw him as "special" pitcher or even in the same league as Brandon McCarthy, and the prospects ratings have similarly "dissed" him.

 

Eh? Most prospect ratings didn't "diss" him at all - some had him a top 10 in all of baseball, others more in the 20's or 30's, but all see him as having significant major league potential. Where are you getting this?

 

 

Not a great start to the minor league season, except for pleasant surprises like Gilmore, Nathan Jones, Shelby, Salvador Sanchez...the only REAL positive is the Trayce Thompson development process, which will end up being more interesting than the major league roster unless KW guts it. Morel, also has looked very solid from everything I've read and heard. And Danks has started out hot again like he did in 2009, but EVERYONE's convinced he might strike out too much to ever be more than a 4th outfielder, or better hitting version of BA with a little bit more excitement/athleticism to his overall upside. Hopefully Dayan starts to get on a little tear after the breakout game. Escobar's a field gem but we'll have to wait and see how his bat holds up at the upper levels of the system.

 

You earlier say that Gilmore is better than Kotsay right now, and then you say the only real positive is Thompson? Seriously?

 

This happens every season. Players come in and their early performance is not what people expected. Its only a couple or three weeks into their season anyway, and there are always question marks. There are multiple guys who are surprising on the up side - everyone you mentioned, but also Bellamy, Shirek, Greene, and others. Just like there are guys surprising on the down side.

 

Mitchell is down and out, Phegley, Hudson is struggling mightily, Gonzalez around .200, Johnny Nunez has fallen off the map, Santeliz is hurt...Flowers, half of the die-hard prospect people are convinced his swing's too long (the Josh Fields/Brian Anderson AAAA bat) and defensively....well, with AJ not hitting a lick, not ever throwing out runners and soaking up payroll AND the supposed best rotation in the AL looking pretty mediocre so far, there's nowhere but up as far as Flowers goes and our present level of performance from that spot.

Mitchell and Phegley were definitely blows, but the other guys, you have to have some patience. Its still April.

 

 

[soxbsbllvr]

OK- lets all step back and take a deep breath.....feel better? Now, lets try not to jump on players 3 weeks in to the season. Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo will be OK. Everyone sure loved 'em last year (and don't say ya didn't- I read these boards although I don't post often). More than likely they are putting too much pressure on themselves trying to live up the the super-human expectations we have put on them. The psyche does funky things when we mess with it and lets face it they are still youngsters and learning. The Sox are struggling, too, and this too shall pass.

[caulfield12]

Absurd. Kotsay is a major league hitter, Gilmore is still multiple years away from being ready. He happens to have a hot hand right now, but let's not get ridiculous.

 

 

 

Eh? Most prospect ratings didn't "diss" him at all - some had him a top 10 in all of baseball, others more in the 20's or 30's, but all see him as having significant major league potential. Where are you getting this?

 

 

 

 

You earlier say that Gilmore is better than Kotsay right now, and then you say the only real positive is Thompson? Seriously?

 

This happens every season. Players come in and their early performance is not what people expected. Its only a couple or three weeks into their season anyway, and there are always question marks. There are multiple guys who are surprising on the up side - everyone you mentioned, but also Bellamy, Shirek, Greene, and others. Just like there are guys surprising on the down side.

 

 

Mitchell and Phegley were definitely blows, but the other guys, you have to have some patience. Its still April.

 

 

I was being facetious to an extent about Gilmore, but not 100%. Kotsay was great last season, but he can't be overextended, and there's certainly the chance he just went on a tear like Pierre with the Dodgers and some were fooled into thinking he could repeat it.

 

Which ratings have Hudson rated anything higher than 30-50 out of the Top 100?

 

I could have mentioned Maurice Gartrell, for example....he's sort of like David Cook, do you agree? Yet do you think he'll ever sniff 100 MLB at-bats with the White Sox, either Greene or Gartrell (or Salvador Sanchez), all of those eventualities would be shocking.

 

I'll give you Shirek, he could definitely become more than just a "sleeper" prospect, he's got a nice arm. But then, I've also thought the same thing about Brian Omogrosso and 100's of White Sox prospects throughout the ages. So I've learned to temper my enthusiam.

 

It's just a little frustrating when our MLB team looks like it's bottom 8-10 and our minor league system looks bottom 3-5.

 

Last year, the argument was that we were Top 15-20 in the majors, maybe even as high as 12/13/14. Right?

 

I get that Beckham's no longer a rookie and notch on our belt, that we traded Brandon Allen, that Viciedo came up short in the eyes of some who projected him as Miguel Cabrera Lite...the way I look at it, we don't have many prospects capable of becoming All-Stars.

 

Mitchell (if he rebounds 100%), Flowers (only at catcher) and Trayce Thompson, at least to me, are the ones with that projectability. Danks, Viciedo, Hudson and Morel (I was wavering about him being able to make it to that elite level) all have some identifiable flaws that limit their ceilings, would you not also agree?

 

Outside of those 7, what prospects would you bet $1,000 that they will make the MLB All-Star game in the future, if your bet payoff would be $20,000 for being correct on a call?

 

Escobar? Gonzalez? Holmberg? Phegley? Santeliz? Gilmore? Shirek? Santos Rodriguez?

 

 

Edited April 28, 2010 by caulfield12

[NorthSideSox72]

I was being facetious to an extent about Gilmore, but not 100%. Kotsay was great last season, but he can't be overextended, and there's certainly the chance he just went on a tear like Pierre with the Dodgers and some were fooled into thinking he could repeat it.

 

Which ratings have Hudson rated anything higher than 30-50 out of the Top 100?

 

I could have mentioned Maurice Gartrell, for example....he's sort of like David Cook, do you agree? Yet do you think he'll ever sniff 100 MLB at-bats with the White Sox, either Greene or Gartrell (or Salvador Sanchez), all of those eventualities would be shocking.

 

I'll give you Shirek, he could definitely become more than just a "sleeper" prospect, he's got a nice arm. But then, I've also thought the same thing about Brian Omogrosso and 100's of White Sox prospects throughout the ages. So I've learned to temper my enthusiam.

 

It's just a little frustrating when our MLB team looks like it's bottom 8-10 and our minor league system looks bottom 3-5.

 

Last year, the argument was that we were Top 15-20 in the majors, maybe even as high as 12/13/14. Right?

 

I get that Beckham's no longer a rookie and notch on our belt, that we traded Brandon Allen, that Viciedo came up short in the eyes of some who projected him as Miguel Cabrera Lite...the way I look at it, we don't have many prospects capable of becoming All-Stars.

 

Mitchell (if he rebounds 100%), Flowers (only at catcher) and Trayce Thompson, at least to me, are the ones with that projectability. Danks, Viciedo, Hudson and Morel (I was wavering about him being able to make it to that elite level) all have some identifiable flaws that limit their ceilings, would you not also agree?

 

Outside of those 7, what prospects would you bet $1,000 that they will make the MLB All-Star game in the future, if your bet payoff would be $20,000 for being correct on a call?

 

Escobar? Gonzalez? Holmberg? Phegley? Santeliz? Gilmore? Shirek? Santos Rodriguez?

I wouldn't make that bet on any prospect, ever, period. They are prospects.

 

And Gartrell is much more highly considered internally by the Sox than Cook ever was. Different animal. The only parallel is that they are OF's who got to the higher levels a year or two older than you'd like to see.

 

 

[caulfield12]

But you'd only have to be right on one player out of 20 to make your money back...

 

Correct? I think most people who play the stock market believe they could do better than picking 1/20 companies to "explode," just like you HOPE your mutual fund manager can do the same with his bundles of stock picks.

 

But if you did it with the White Sox over 10-12 years, the only time you would be right would have been betting on Buehrle, Rowand and I can't remember, did Crede make it once? Maybe he didn't...

 

Just for argument's sake, who would you pick? I'll go with Santos Rodriguez.

 

Point #2, outside of Trayce Thompson, what argument can you make that we're not (as many are arguing) anything more than the 26th/27th/28th/29th/30th organization in terms of projectable major league talent?

 

 

Edited April 28, 2010 by caulfield12

[NorthSideSox72]

But you'd only have to be right on one player out of 20 to make your money back...

 

Correct? I think most people who play the stock market believe they could do better than picking 1/20 companies to "explode," just like you HOPE your mutual fund manager can do the same with his bundles of stock picks.

 

But if you did it with the White Sox over 10-12 years, the only time you would be right would have been betting on Buehrle, Rowand and I can't remember, did Crede make it once? Maybe he didn't...

 

Just for argument's sake, who would you pick? I'll go with Santos Rodriguez.

 

Point #2, outside of Trayce Thompson, what argument can you make that we're not (as many are arguing) anything more than the 26th/27th/28th/29th/30th organization in terms of projectable major league talent?

Stocks are not on or off. Totally different kind of gambling.

 

I only know a little about other systems. But I have read some lists and know some names. I can tell you more accurately where the system stands compared to where it has historically. 2007 was the low point, IMO. It got a lot better 2008-2009, and is still there. But as with all systems, there are strengths and weaknesses. I see the Sox system going into this season as having some nice catching prospects - Flowers, Phegley and Gonzalez in particular - but now Phegley is "hurt". I wouldn't worry a ton about the other two having slow starts, its still quite early. Starting pitching is lacking, but there are a few guys in there who I think are future major leaguers. Relief pitching has good depth. 3B does too. 1B/DH and power generally is lacking, OF is mostly lackluster with a few exceptions (Mitchell, Thompson, D2, a few other marginal ones). Middle infield is sorely lacking.