If you are JR. who is on your BIG BOARD to replace KW?

[chisoxt]

I would say about 90 losses, an empty ball park, no farm system, a high payrolled team going no where and three more years stuck with a $16 milllion washout could be just about enough to get Kenny the "John Paxon" promotion. Kenny will never be fired but being kicked upstairs is common practice for once highly regarded executives who, um, are not so highly regarded anymore. Losing is one thing, but when the mistakes that are made place financial strain on the organization (Peavy, Rios), all bets are off.

 

The question is, who succeeds Williams? I am still not convinced that Rick Hahn will be the guy, given that he helped KW twist Jerry's arm into signing Peavy. Could Jerry end up tapping the shoulder of his buddy, Tony LaRussa to convince him return to the Sox as a GM? LaRussa is looking for a new gig outside of managing, and this could be it.

Edited May 1, 2010 by chisoxt

[ThunderBolt]

We didn't sign Peavy, we traded for him. We traded four arms, and i'm yet to regret giving up any of them. KW doesn't deserve to get fired. The greatest mistake he's ever made is going against his better judgement and giving Ozzie the final say over the construction of the roster. All he needs is a reality check, and he's getting one at the moment. We all are.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Based on this year? No one. While the GM should have the ultimate say in the construction of a roster it's been touted as Ozzie's team. That said, my finger wouldn't be on the trigger in regards to Ozzie either. If we were talking about the Yankees then perhaps, but with two 90 win seasons, 2 playoff berths, and a WS winner, I can deal with some frustration. The White Sox haven't exactly been world beaters. Ever.

 

Other than that, we're not even 30 games into the season.

[daggins]

Hahn.

 

But KW isn't going anywhere yet.

[SoxAce]

We didn't sign Peavy, we traded for him. We traded four arms, and i'm yet to regret giving up any of them. KW doesn't deserve to get fired. The greatest mistake he's ever made is going against his better judgement and giving Ozzie the final say over the construction of the roster. All he needs is a reality check, and he's getting one at the moment. We all are.

 

Agreed 100%. KW should still take some flack on some moves, but overall I agree. Hahn is and should be next in line to sorta answer this thread question.

[bmags]

the arms were not the key to getting peavy, it was picking up his salary.

[jenksycat]

the arms were not the key to getting peavy, it was picking up his salary.

 

Then why didn't the padres trade him to any of the other teams who wanted him?

[gatnom]

Then why didn't the padres trade him to any of the other teams who wanted him?

 

Nobody else called after he got injured.

[DBAHO]

My main gripe with KW ATM is obviously missing out on Damon by being too hasty in acquiring Pierre.

 

But you could blame Ozzie for forcing KW's hand there instead.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

This is the first time that I've ever said this but Ozzie has to go now. His vision of how his teams are going to win just doesn't work.

[Dick Allen]

I think Oney Guillen should be the GM. He's smart.

[southsider2k5]

I would say about 90 losses, an empty ball park, no farm system, a high payrolled team going no where and three more years stuck with a $16 milllion washout could be just about enough to get Kenny the "John Paxon" promotion. Kenny will never be fired but being kicked upstairs is common practice for once highly regarded executives who, um, are not so highly regarded anymore. Losing is one thing, but when the mistakes that are made place financial strain on the organization (Peavy, Rios), all bets are off.

 

The question is, who succeeds Williams? I am still not convinced that Rick Hahn will be the guy, given that he helped KW twist Jerry's arm into signing Peavy. Could Jerry end up tapping the shoulder of his buddy, Tony LaRussa to convince him return to the Sox as a GM? LaRussa is looking for a new gig outside of managing, and this could be it.

 

Serious question. Do you remember the Ron Scheuler era?

[iamshack]

There is absolutely no way anyone can evaluate the Peavy trade based on the salary we absorbed at this point in time.

[chisoxt]

Serious question. Do you remember the Ron Scheuler era?

I sure do. Just because Schueler was a lousy GM means that Kenny should get a free pass?

 

Look, even after the WC, Kenny has made some good deals- Floyd, Danks Thorton, Quentin (only becaue it won us a Div Title), Alexei....

 

But he has also made some horrible deals and quite frankly, I am very concerned about the future of this organization. Our minor leagues suck, and just because we have not had the high draft picks doesn't mean we shouldn't be developing decent players- look at Boston, Minnesota, New York...Instead of wasting millions on Jake Peavy, why not throw that money to the player development side- hire better scouts, coaches and expand our scouting network to other countries.

 

Hire the right people for God's sake, instead of your buddies who end up robbing you blind (Dave Wilder).

 

All of this is on the General Manager.

[southsider2k5]

I sure do. Just because Schueler was a lousy GM means that Kenny should get a free pass?

 

Look, even after the WC, Kenny has made some good deals- Floyd, Danks Thorton, Quentin (only becaue it won us a Div Title), Alexei....

 

But he has also made some horrible deals and quite frankly, I am very concerned about the future of this organization. Our minor leagues suck, and just because we have not had the high draft picks doesn't mean we shouldn't be developing decent players- look at Boston, Minnesota, New York...Instead of wasting millions on Jake Peavy, why not throw that money to the player development side- hire better scouts, coaches and expand our scouting network to other countries.

 

Hire the right people for God's sake, instead of your buddies who end up robbing you blind (Dave Wilder).

 

All of this is on the General Manager.

 

If you really remember the Schueler era, you wouldn't think Williams is half as bad as you do.

 

And it is easy to say spend money on the minors, but the problem is Kenny can't go through years of 90 and 100 loss seasons to rebuild the farm system. This marketplace won't let him do that. He has to rebuild on the fly, or Sox games go back to the late 70s when 10,000 people was a normal crowd.

[chisoxt]

If you really remember the Schueler era, you wouldn't think Williams is half as bad as you do.

 

And it is easy to say spend money on the minors, but the problem is Kenny can't go through years of 90 and 100 loss seasons to rebuild the farm system. This marketplace won't let him do that. He has to rebuild on the fly, or Sox games go back to the late 70s when 10,000 people was a normal crowd.

One of the things that made the Schueler era difficult was the organizations reticence to spend money...Every contract was a prize fight dragged out in the press....arbitration hearings....refusal to sign decent free agents. Jack Gould, a former White Sox organization bean counter, took tremendous pride in winning arbitration hearings. Hawk used to make a joke about it on the broadcast.

 

We do not have this problem now as our payroll is high and we tend to sign our guys. But, the team is lousy nonetheless.

 

And as I recall, how many 90-100 loss seasons did we endure between 1997 and 2000? Those teams were not good but they were not horrendous. I guarantee you one thing, the longer we are in denial that this team is past its prime, the more likely we will see 90-100 loss seasons.

[southsider2k5]

One of the things that made the Schueler era difficult was the organizations reticence to spend money...Every contract was a prize fight dragged out in the press....arbitration hearings....refusal to sign decent free agents. Jack Gould, a former White Sox organization bean counter, took tremendous pride in winning arbitration hearings. Hawk used to make a joke about it on the broadcast.

 

We do not have this problem now as our payroll is high and we tend to sign our guys. But, the team is lousy nonetheless.

 

And as I recall, how many 90-100 loss seasons did we endure between 1997 and 2000? Those teams were not good but they were not horrendous. I guarantee you one thing, the longer we are in denial that this team is past its prime, the more likely we will see 90-100 loss seasons.

 

The team has been past its prime. In case you haven't noticed, the organization is getting made over. Guys like Rios and Peavy are the next stars of the team. Guys like Dye and Thome are gone. In all likelihood, Konerko is next, and Kenny will track down another big bat for the middle of the order.

[iamshack]

One of the things that made the Schueler era difficult was the organizations reticence to spend money...Every contract was a prize fight dragged out in the press....arbitration hearings....refusal to sign decent free agents. Jack Gould, a former White Sox organization bean counter, took tremendous pride in winning arbitration hearings. Hawk used to make a joke about it on the broadcast.

 

We do not have this problem now as our payroll is high and we tend to sign our guys. But, the team is lousy nonetheless.

 

And as I recall, how many 90-100 loss seasons did we endure between 1997 and 2000? Those teams were not good but they were not horrendous. I guarantee you one thing, the longer we are in denial that this team is past its prime, the more likely we will see 90-100 loss seasons.

 

Are you kidding me? Have you not realized how much our roster has been made over in the last 2-3 years? The 05' team is basically gone, with the exception of Mark and Paulie. We now have one of the younger staffs in the major leagues, especially if you consider that Freddy is just a stopgap until Hudson arrives (or another young arm is brought in), we have 2 outfielders in the primes of their careers, we have a ss and 3b in the prime of theirs, Gordon, and then a few vets like Andruw Jones, AJ and Juan Pierre filling out the lineup. Overall, this roster is pretty young at this point. All that needs to happen over the next few seasons is the addition of a 1b to replace Paulie, a catcher to replace AJ (Flowers), and another 1-2 OFs (Danks?).

 

Compare the relative age of this roster against other teams in the MLB and we are very well positioned in regards to age.

[bmags]

and, you know, our people in the prime of their careers to not hit like mendoza in the prime of his.

[G&T]

The organization's problem today is the unbelievably bad drafting for most of the decade. Not a single player from the 2006 draft made it to the majors. That's inexcusable. At least some other drafts had some role players like BA, Sweeney, and Fields. It's tough to fill a rosters when you have to always look outside the organization. It will be a waiting game for now to see how the recent drafts help the cause.

[SouthsideDon48]

Uh, I don't think KW deserves to be fired yet, c'mon

 

I think he's been very successful he only had 2 losing seasons after 2005 (2007 and 2010).

 

And he made some trades since 2005 that made the organization better: Floyd, Danks, Thornton, Quentin, Peavy, etc.

 

Plus, a lot of people may hate how it affects payroll, but the Rios acquistion was brilliant.

 

I honestly think it's really Konerko to blame for creating an atmosphere where the clubhouse revolved around Konerko/Thome/Dye that made newcomers (Swisher, O-Cab, Getz, etc) feel unwelcome and scrutinized. Seriously, O-Cab was a great player for the Sox, he was accustomed to being on winning teams with a winning clubhouse culture, yet when he arrived on the Sox the big boys (Konerko/Thome/Dye) alienated him.

 

Sadly, even though I love Konerko and AJ, I think it's time for the Sox to move on and let them walk after the 2010 season and let a new era take over the clubhouse, an era led by guys like Beckham, Quentin, Rios, Peavy, and Danks.

 

Plus, I think once Konerko and AJ are gone, KW is gonna make a big move for a big bat to play 1st base. The last couple moves KW made were mostly pitchers (Danks, Floyd, Peavy), so besides the move Rios, the Sox haven't made a move for a HIGH-PROFILE bat in a while, so I think we're due to see KW make a move for one.

 

So yea, that's my case for keeping KW.

[fathom]

Isn't it KW's job to acquire players that will fit in well with the rest of the team? Look at the Sox lineup today. We have 105 million dollar payroll for a lineup that would get the Sox fined in Spring Training for not enough everyday starters playing.

[southsider2k5]

Uh, I don't think KW deserves to be fired yet, c'mon

 

I think he's been very successful he only had 2 losing seasons after 2005 (2007 and 2010).

 

And he made some trades since 2005 that made the organization better: Floyd, Danks, Thornton, Quentin, Peavy, etc.

 

Plus, a lot of people may hate how it affects payroll, but the Rios acquistion was brilliant.

 

I honestly think it's really Konerko to blame for creating an atmosphere where the clubhouse revolved around Konerko/Thome/Dye that made newcomers (Swisher, O-Cab, Getz, etc) feel unwelcome and scrutinized. Seriously, O-Cab was a great player for the Sox, he was accustomed to being on winning teams with a winning clubhouse culture, yet when he arrived on the Sox the big boys (Konerko/Thome/Dye) alienated him.

 

Sadly, even though I love Konerko and AJ, I think it's time for the Sox to move on and let them walk after the 2010 season and let a new era take over the clubhouse, an era led by guys like Beckham, Quentin, Rios, Peavy, and Danks.

 

Plus, I think once Konerko and AJ are gone, KW is gonna make a big move for a big bat to play 1st base. The last couple moves KW made were mostly pitchers (Danks, Floyd, Peavy), so besides the move Rios, the Sox haven't made a move for a HIGH-PROFILE bat in a while, so I think we're due to see KW make a move for one.

 

So yea, that's my case for keeping KW.

 

I don't know about Getz, but Cabrera and Swisher alienated themselves by being pricks about different things. Both of them made big public shows putting themselves before the team.

 

[Balta1701]

The organization's problem today is the unbelievably bad drafting for most of the decade. Not a single player from the 2006 draft made it to the majors. That's inexcusable. At least some other drafts had some role players like BA, Sweeney, and Fields. It's tough to fill a rosters when you have to always look outside the organization. It will be a waiting game for now to see how the recent drafts help the cause.

Of course...the 2006 draft was right after we won the world series...so we were picking at the bottom of every round.

[fathom]

I don't know about Getz, but Cabrera and Swisher alienated themselves by being pricks about different things. Both of them made big public shows putting themselves before the team.

 

Swisher acted the way that everyone knew he would, so I don't know why that was a surprise. Cabrera was rubbing people the wrong way as soon as he got here, so obviously KW misjudged his character.