May Catch All White Sox Thread

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh give me a break. Ozzie is a polarizing figure. There are simply going to be those that love him, and those that hate him.

 

And lol@Ozzie having anything to do with scaring off potential free agents. There's this thing called money. And the Sox don't spend it on elite free agents.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh give me a break. Ozzie is a polarizing figure. There are simply going to be those that love him, and those that hate him.

And most managers aren't polarizing so you than have a wide variety of guys willing to play for you. This is a pretty damning article. I guarantee one or two of those agents is whomever represents Bmac and Brian Anderson.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Could people be speculating at the Sox changing managers at some point this season if all goes wrong and this be a devised move to try and start putting out some ammo for why they could be getting rid of Ozzie.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And most managers aren't polarizing so you than have a wide variety of guys willing to play for you. This is a pretty damning article. I guarantee one or two of those agents is whomever represents Bmac and Brian Anderson.

 

No, it's really not. Unless you're the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets, you're not getting the big time free agents. And wasn't it believed that one of the reasons Peavy rejected the first trade was because he didn't want to play for Ozzie? Yeah.

[Kyyle23]

I could care less about those player polls. There have been plenty of managers that are complete A-holes that have won many games.

[knightni]

And most managers aren't polarizing so you than have a wide variety of guys willing to play for you. This is a pretty damning article. I guarantee one or two of those agents is whomever represents Bmac and Brian Anderson.

The other's probably Ryan Sweeney or Nick Swisher.

[iamshack]

Could people be speculating at the Sox changing managers at some point this season if all goes wrong and this be a devised move to try and start putting out some ammo for why they could be getting rid of Ozzie.

As if there is not already enough ammo for getting rid of Ozzie?

 

I'm not too concerned if the frat boys are upset that they didn't get enough playing time. It's not as if Brian and BMac went on to become superstars elsewhere or something.

 

All Ozzie wants is for the young kids to take playing in the big leagues seriously, and try to have a little fun while doing it - just look at his treatment of Gordon.

 

I think the entire league knows Ozzie plenty well by now. Something some agent said is not going to change anyone's mind about him.

[justBLAZE]

Sox wanted to push Peavy back and let Buehrle start Sunday, and Peavy said no thanks - he wants the Rays. - Joe Cowley

[fathom]

And most managers aren't polarizing so you than have a wide variety of guys willing to play for you. This is a pretty damning article. I guarantee one or two of those agents is whomever represents Bmac and Brian Anderson.

 

Seriously, I don't care if it was about Phil Jackson coaching the Bulls...if you have an article saying players don't want to play for you, including current members, then that's awful! Mark Gonzales is definitely not the type of person to start a story like this in order to create controversy.

Edited May 27, 2010 by fathom

[Chisoxfn]

No, it's really not. Unless you're the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets, you're not getting the big time free agents. And wasn't it believed that one of the reasons Peavy rejected the first trade was because he didn't want to play for Ozzie? Yeah.

Whether by trade or FA, etc. I think it is a bad thing if players around baseball are against playing for our manager. That negative perception isn't a good thing and it will make people less willing to join our front office. What happens when we offer the same amount of money to a player who has 3 other teams interested, well, we lose out on said player.

 

Whether that happens or not, I don't know, but it is a really really bad thing if players don't want to play for our manager. I got a feeling that Swisher/Brian Anderson/Brandon McCarthy/Sean Tracey all have really terrible things to say about Ozzie. Whether warranted or not, I don't know. The next question is what does Jermaine Dye think of Ozzie?

[Leonard Zelig]

Seriously, I don't care if it was about Phil Jackson coaching the Bulls...if you have an article saying players don't want to play for you, including current members, then that's awful! Mark Gonzales is definitely not the type of person to start a story like this in order to create controversy.

 

For one thing nobody knows how seriously the players take these polls. For another, I would bet that most managers have players who do not want to play for them, I seriously doubt Ozzie is the only one. Thome and Dye both wanted to come back. And haven't other players said they would like to play for OG? It's like anything else in life, some personalities get along well with each other and others don't. In my opinion this is not an issue.

[Chisoxfn]

As if there is not already enough ammo for getting rid of Ozzie?

 

I'm not too concerned if the frat boys are upset that they didn't get enough playing time. It's not as if Brian and BMac went on to become superstars elsewhere or something.

 

All Ozzie wants is for the young kids to take playing in the big leagues seriously, and try to have a little fun while doing it - just look at his treatment of Gordon.

 

I think the entire league knows Ozzie plenty well by now. Something some agent said is not going to change anyone's mind about him.

Perception is reality. Whether we like it or not, that is the case and eventually having a manager that polarizes people in the lockerroom you will get in trouble. Just look at Byron Scott. The guy rubbed so many people the wrong way and because of it he has gotten fired at two different places as a head coach.

[iamshack]

Perception is reality. Whether we like it or not, that is the case and eventually having a manager that polarizes people in the lockerroom you will get in trouble. Just look at Byron Scott. The guy rubbed so many people the wrong way and because of it he has gotten fired at two different places as a head coach.

Coaching basketball is sooooo much different than managing baseball. Basketball is a hands-on sport from a coaching perspective. It's about x's and o's and minutes as opposed to managing baseball, which is basically throw the guys out there and let them do their thing. I agree that you don't want to be known as a controversial basketball coach, at least in terms of clashing with egos and the like. But in baseball, you put the guys out there for 9 innings and whatever happens, happens. Any baseball FA that we care enough to actually be upset about not wanting to come here is certainly not going to be left off the lineup card by Ozzie. He may have his issues with fringe players, but he puts the guys that produce out there on a regular basis.

 

The only player I can think of that had any kind of a case for how he was treated by Ozzie is Nick Swisher, and it's not a big secret that he was not only not producing on the field, but there were issues in the background there as well.

 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that the three guys Ozzie really had a problem with were underperforming on the field and overexposing themselves in the Chicago nightlife scene simultaneously. Not a good combination.

[Leonard Zelig]

Perception is reality. Whether we like it or not, that is the case and eventually having a manager that polarizes people in the lockerroom you will get in trouble. Just look at Byron Scott. The guy rubbed so many people the wrong way and because of it he has gotten fired at two different places as a head coach.

Do you think Ozzie is the only manager that some players don't care for?

[Chisoxfn]

Coaching basketball is sooooo much different than managing baseball. Basketball is a hands-on sport from a coaching perspective. It's about x's and o's and minutes as opposed to managing baseball, which is basically throw the guys out there and let them do their thing. I agree that you don't want to be known as a controversial basketball coach, at least in terms of clashing with egos and the like. But in baseball, you put the guys out there for 9 innings and whatever happens, happens. Any baseball FA that we care enough to actually be upset about not wanting to come here is certainly not going to be left off the lineup card by Ozzie. He may have his issues with fringe players, but he puts the guys that produce out there on a regular basis.

 

The only player I can think of that had any kind of a case for how he was treated by Ozzie is Nick Swisher, and it's not a big secret that he was not only not producing on the field, but there were issues in the background there as well.

 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that the three guys Ozzie really had a problem with were underperforming on the field and overexposing themselves in the Chicago nightlife scene simultaneously. Not a good combination.

Isn't one of the big gripes with Ozzie the fact that he doesn't always put the guys that produce out there. He tends to stick with his guys longer than other guys, etc.

 

I just don't see how this isn't a big deal. How big of a deal is it, who knows, but it is just another on a long list of s*** that is getting real old from Ozzie. If the team redeems themselves and win the world series, fantastic, but I think it is much more likely that this team is so sick and tired of hearing the same s*** out of Ozzie day in and day out that they've flat out tuned him out.

 

And that is not a good thing for any manager. Ozzie is a smart baseball guy and he has a lot of strengths, but I don't know how long he will last at certain spots because of how his act could grow old.

[fathom]

The only player I can think of that had any kind of a case for how he was treated by Ozzie is Nick Swisher, and it's not a big secret that he was not only not producing on the field, but there were issues in the background there as well.

 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that the three guys Ozzie really had a problem with were underperforming on the field and overexposing themselves in the Chicago nightlife scene simultaneously. Not a good combination.

 

There's a whole group of minor leaguers that didn't just dislike Ozzie, they HATED Ozzie. We've talked about this in detail on this site. I don't buy the nightlife scene either entirely, as there's some veterans that were heavily involved in that as well that Ozzie was fine having on the squad.

[iamshack]

Whether by trade or FA, etc. I think it is a bad thing if players around baseball are against playing for our manager. That negative perception isn't a good thing and it will make people less willing to join our front office. What happens when we offer the same amount of money to a player who has 3 other teams interested, well, we lose out on said player.

 

Whether that happens or not, I don't know, but it is a really really bad thing if players don't want to play for our manager. I got a feeling that Swisher/Brian Anderson/Brandon McCarthy/Sean Tracey all have really terrible things to say about Ozzie. Whether warranted or not, I don't know. The next question is what does Jermaine Dye think of Ozzie?

I respect your opinion Jason, but I find it difficult to believe that this particular collection of misfits having a negative opinion of Ozzie really means jack s*** to anyone worth a damn as a player. I think Ozzie's reputation amongst the latin community of players, as well as his experience managing the AL All Star team in 06' has a lot more affect on what the good players in the league think about him than what BA, BMac and Sean Tracy think of him.

[fathom]

I respect your opinion Jason, but I find it difficult to believe that this particular collection of misfits having a negative opinion of Ozzie really means jack s*** to anyone worth a damn as a player. I think Ozzie's reputation amongst the latin community of players, as well as his experience managing the AL All Star team in 06' has a lot more affect on what the good players in the league think about him than what BA, BMac and Sean Tracy think of him.

 

The thing is, if you have someone like Swisher absolutely ripping Ozzie with his Yankees teammates, what's to stop them from voting that they wouldn't want to play for Ozzie? The poll isn't what concerns me, it's the fact that a Sox beat reporter who never creates controversy is reporting that there's a handful of players that feel this way, and one or more is still on the team.

[Chisoxfn]

Do you think Ozzie is the only manager that some players don't care for?

Not at all. Oh, chalk another player onto my long list of players with potential reasons for grief:

 

Orlando Cabrera

Nick Swisher

Brandon McCarthy (a good kid)

Sean Tracey (who is an amazingly good guy)

Ryan Sweeney

Brian Anderson

Jermaine Dye

 

That is a decent list of players. Some might have BS reasons for being upset but regardless it is a list of guys. Once Jenks is gone, I think we will see him on the list as well. It is no secret that Jenks has had some heat with Sox management (including Kenny).

[iamshack]

There's a whole group of minor leaguers that didn't just dislike Ozzie, they HATED Ozzie. We've talked about this in detail on this site. I don't buy the nightlife scene either entirely, as there's some veterans that were heavily involved in that as well that Ozzie was fine having on the squad.

Ozzie is quite the partier himself, both now, and when he was a player. So he doesn't hold it against players if they want to go out and enjoy themselves. That would be incredibly hypocritical of him, and I think he recognizes that. What he doesn't care for, IMO anyways, is players that are out there partying it up every other night but not bringing their "A game" to the ballpark every day.

 

It's probably true that one of Ozzie's weaknesses as a manager is his handling of young players. He much prefers his veterans, sometimes to a fault, but I can live with that. A lot of great managers have won a lot of games with the same approach. If it pisses off some burn-out prospects along the way, so be it.

[iamshack]

The thing is, if you have someone like Swisher absolutely ripping Ozzie with his Yankees teammates, what's to stop them from voting that they wouldn't want to play for Ozzie? The poll isn't what concerns me, it's the fact that a Sox beat reporter who never creates controversy is reporting that there's a handful of players that feel this way, and one or more is still on the team.

The Yankees have a collection of some of the more professional players in the league on their team.

 

I just really don't believe that Derek Jeter gives a s*** what Nick Swisher says, especially if he knows what Nick Swisher has been known to do in his free time. These guys are not naive.

[Chisoxfn]

I respect your opinion Jason, but I find it difficult to believe that this particular collection of misfits having a negative opinion of Ozzie really means jack s*** to anyone worth a damn as a player. I think Ozzie's reputation amongst the latin community of players, as well as his experience managing the AL All Star team in 06' has a lot more affect on what the good players in the league think about him than what BA, BMac and Sean Tracy think of him.

I'm not stating that those guys would necessarily impact others minds, but Orlando Cabrera is Vladdy's best friend and Vladdy is a pretty popular player. Torri Hunter is a pretty popular guy as well and he might have heard stuff. All it takes is a few guys to have friends that are big time players and quickly it isn't just some misguided myth, it is the league perception and that is not an easy thing to run away from.

 

And Jermaine Dye is a well well regarded player in this league. Whether legitimate or not, he left on a sour note. That said, Ozzie has always said good things about JD and I think JD genuinely likes Ozzie, but I've heard plenty of grumblings over the last year or two that a lot of people in our clubhouse pretty much tune out Ozzie.

 

And that is not a good thing.

[fathom]

Ozzie is quite the partier himself, both now, and when he was a player. So he doesn't hold it against players if they want to go out and enjoy themselves. That would be incredibly hypocritical of him, and I think he recognizes that. What he doesn't care for, IMO anyways, is players that are out there partying it up every other night but not bringing their "A game" to the ballpark every day.

 

It's probably true that one of Ozzie's weaknesses as a manager is his handling of young players. He much prefers his veterans, sometimes to a fault, but I can live with that. A lot of great managers have won a lot of games with the same approach. If it pisses off some burn-out prospects along the way, so be it.

 

But when it's frustrating your prospects while they're still in your system, isn't that hurtful to the organization? There was a culture a few years ago where a certain type of prospect in our system felt disrespected by Ozzie, and it created a negative environment for their minor league team and hurt the player's perception.

[fathom]

I'm not stating that those guys would necessarily impact others minds, but Orlando Cabrera is Vladdy's best friend and Vladdy is a pretty popular player. Torri Hunter is a pretty popular guy as well and he might have heard stuff. All it takes is a few guys to have friends that are big time players and quickly it isn't just some misguided myth, it is the league perception and that is not an easy thing to run away from.

 

And Jermaine Dye is a well well regarded player in this league. Whether legitimate or not, he left on a sour note. That said, Ozzie has always said good things about JD and I think JD genuinely likes Ozzie, but I've heard plenty of grumblings over the last year or two that a lot of people in our clubhouse pretty much tune out Ozzie.

 

And that is not a good thing.

 

This is a fantastic post.

[iamshack]

Not at all. Oh, chalk another player onto my long list of players with potential reasons for grief:

 

Orlando Cabrera

Nick Swisher

Brandon McCarthy (a good kid)

Sean Tracey (who is an amazingly good guy)

Ryan Sweeney

Brian Anderson

Jermaine Dye

 

That is a decent list of players. Some might have BS reasons for being upset but regardless it is a list of guys. Once Jenks is gone, I think we will see him on the list as well. It is no secret that Jenks has had some heat with Sox management (including Kenny).

I can't agree with you about Jermaine and Jenks. Jenks loves Ozzie. They hug each other after every game Jenks finishes for us. I think that's why Jenks has such a long leash - because he has taken Bobby under his wing since 05', even if that means giving him some tough love from time to time. Ozzie has done the same thing with Freddy and MCab as well. I really think they get what Ozzie is doing, more so than disliking him for it.

 

As for Dye, Ozzie let the guy play nearly every game in the second half last year, even though he was one of, if not the absolute worst hitter in baseball from August onward. I don't know what JD would have against Ozzie for that.