May Catch All White Sox Thread

[fathom]

The Yankees have a collection of some of the more professional players in the league on their team.

 

I just really don't believe that Derek Jeter gives a s*** what Nick Swisher says, especially if he knows what Nick Swisher has been known to do in his free time. These guys are not naive.

 

Yes, but when filling out a survey, what's to stop someone like Brett Gardner, who's only played for Girardi really, from putting down that of all the managers in baseball, Ozzie's the one he wouldn't want to play for (based on what Swisher said)?

[Harry Chappas]

I think Guillen is a guy you either love or hate. In his tenure more players have signed extensions to play for him than left for greener pastures.

 

The Sox have also signed a decent number of bargain free agents that seem to like Ozzie. Think Putz and Peavy would have agreed to come to the Sox if Linebrink and Thorton said Guillen was terrible to play for. Thome seemed open to come back to the Sox.

[Chisoxfn]

This is a fantastic post.

Let me be even more blunt, we aren't the only people that go, "thats just Ozzie being Ozzie". When players do that, it is sign #1 that they are zoned and tuned uot.

 

Just look at this spring when Ozzie talked about a back to the basics approach this spring. I remember a few of the veterans saying, Ozzie says that every year, things won't be any different.

 

And you know what, they really aren't that much different. I think, barring a huge winning streak, this will be Ozzie's last year.

[iamshack]

I'm not stating that those guys would necessarily impact others minds, but Orlando Cabrera is Vladdy's best friend and Vladdy is a pretty popular player. Torri Hunter is a pretty popular guy as well and he might have heard stuff. All it takes is a few guys to have friends that are big time players and quickly it isn't just some misguided myth, it is the league perception and that is not an easy thing to run away from.

 

And Jermaine Dye is a well well regarded player in this league. Whether legitimate or not, he left on a sour note. That said, Ozzie has always said good things about JD and I think JD genuinely likes Ozzie, but I've heard plenty of grumblings over the last year or two that a lot of people in our clubhouse pretty much tune out Ozzie.

 

And that is not a good thing.

And OCab calls up to the official scorer to complain about errors and Torii Hunter comes out every year and says that white players shouldn't be wearing Jackie Robinson's number on Jackie Robinson day.

 

Neither of these guys are infallible either.

 

I just think that baseball is like any other industry or collection of professionals. Everyone has some people they like and some people they don't particularly care for. My feeling is some people think Ozzie is a loud mouth and others think he is freaking hilarious and would be a joy to play for. Just depends on what you enjoy about a leader.

[Chisoxfn]

I can't agree with you about Jermaine and Jenks. Jenks loves Ozzie. They hug each other after every game Jenks finishes for us. I think that's why Jenks has such a long leash - because he has taken Bobby under his wing since 05', even if that means giving him some tough love from time to time. Ozzie has done the same thing with Freddy and MCab as well. I really think they get what Ozzie is doing, more so than disliking him for it.

 

As for Dye, Ozzie let the guy play nearly every game in the second half last year, even though he was one of, if not the absolute worst hitter in baseball from August onward. I don't know what JD would have against Ozzie for that.

Jenks was livid with the Sox this off-season regarding comments Ozzie in particular made about Jenks and his weight issue.

[caulfield12]

Not at all. Oh, chalk another player onto my long list of players with potential reasons for grief:

 

Orlando Cabrera

Nick Swisher

Brandon McCarthy (a good kid)

Sean Tracey (who is an amazingly good guy)

Ryan Sweeney

Brian Anderson

Jermaine Dye

 

That is a decent list of players. Some might have BS reasons for being upset but regardless it is a list of guys. Once Jenks is gone, I think we will see him on the list as well. It is no secret that Jenks has had some heat with Sox management (including Kenny).

 

It's also interesting to see articles now starting to come out about how the team (both in the line-up defensively and his clubhouse presence) misses Uribe so much. He was the glue that held everything together, and the bridge between the Hispanic cliques and all the other players on the team. One of Buehrle's best friends, too.

 

Jon Rauch (July 2004 trade, mostly a beef with KW, but I think Ozzie was involved here, too)

Jayson Nix (mystifying lack of playing time compared to last year)

Magglio Ordonez

Carlos Lee (???)

Miguel Olivo

 

It is a bit curious that before Omar Vizquel, we haven't had much luck at all bringing in Venezuelan players, like, say, Abreu....and I would hardly classify Omar Vizquel as a huge "get" as a FA!!!

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

The Yankees have a collection of some of the more professional players in the league on their team.

 

I just really don't believe that Derek Jeter gives a s*** what Nick Swisher says, especially if he knows what Nick Swisher has been known to do in his free time. These guys are not naive.

The Yankees guys adore Swisher. So, i can't imagine they'd have that much of a problem with his antics. I've heard countless reports about how loose Swish made that clubhouse, how he got guys like Jeter, A-Rod and Pettite to lighten up. It's of interest to me that Ozzie is pretty loose himself and Girardi is a stone-cold taskmaster. That says something about the clubhouse enviroment that a managers personality can create.

[Chisoxfn]

And OCab calls up to the official scorer to complain about errors and Torii Hunter comes out every year and says that white players shouldn't be wearing Jackie Robinson's number on Jackie Robinson day.

 

Neither of these guys are infallible either.

 

I just think that baseball is like any other industry or collection of professionals. Everyone has some people they like and some people they don't particularly care for. My feeling is some people think Ozzie is a loud mouth and others think he is freaking hilarious and would be a joy to play for. Just depends on what you enjoy about a leader.

Hunter is one of the good guys in baseball. Infallible or not, the guy is well liked around the game and no one would put him on the list of hated players.

 

OCab was hated in Chicago, but everywhere else he's been there haven't been a lot of negative issues. He went to Minny they were fine with him, he was loved in Anaheim, and than I have no idea how things are going with the Reds.

[ThunderBolt]

Dusty Baker said he loves having a veteran guy like O-Cab to set an example for some of the younger guys on the team. So, he likes him for the Reds.

[iamshack]

Jenks was livid with the Sox this off-season regarding comments Ozzie in particular made about Jenks and his weight issue.

He's also a young kid with a lot of growing up to do. This is the same guy that pitches completely horribly, then doesn't understand why anyone might suggest he needs to take a break from the closer's role. He's a kid that has been a drunken fool for many years of his life.

 

Put it this way - imagine that there were always cameras and reporters around your office and writing stories and commentaries on your workplace. I can only imagine the things normal workers would say about their bosses and vice versa. It's human nature whenever you are in high-stress situations to comment and vent about it. This happens in every industry - there just aren't reporters and cameras around most workplaces to tell everyone about it.

[fathom]

Hunter is one of the good guys in baseball. Infallible or not, the guy is well liked around the game and no one would put him on the list of hated players.

 

OCab was hated in Chicago, but everywhere else he's been there haven't been a lot of negative issues. He went to Minny they were fine with him, he was loved in Anaheim, and than I have no idea how things are going with the Reds.

 

In my best sarcastic voice, Jermaine Dye found out before a game that OC was sleeping with his mom, and that's why the chemistry was so bad. In all honesty, we all used to blame OC for the issues with Dye, but as we saw that year, maybe Dye was also being extremely immature (for example, getting mad when someone steals 3rd base with less than 2 outs).

[SoxAce]

I can't agree with you about Jermaine and Jenks.

 

I agree with Jason 100% from what he said actually, and really it shouldn't be surprising.

[fathom]

He's also a young kid with a lot of growing up to do. This is the same guy that pitches completely horribly, then doesn't understand why anyone might suggest he needs to take a break from the closer's role. He's a kid that has been a drunken fool for many years of his life.

 

Put it this way - imagine that there were always cameras and reporters around your office and writing stories and commentaries on your workplace. I can only imagine the things normal workers would say about their bosses and vice versa. It's human nature whenever you are in high-stress situations to comment and vent about it. This happens in every industry - there just aren't reporters and cameras around most workplaces to tell everyone about it.

 

I think the Sox have covered Jenks in the past for some indiscretions, and things have soured a lot and haven't come close to reaching its peak. I hope when he leaves, everything is peaceful and we remember him for all the good.

[caulfield12]

And OCab calls up to the official scorer to complain about errors and Torii Hunter comes out every year and says that white players shouldn't be wearing Jackie Robinson's number on Jackie Robinson day.

 

Neither of these guys are infallible either.

 

I just think that baseball is like any other industry or collection of professionals. Everyone has some people they like and some people they don't particularly care for. My feeling is some people think Ozzie is a loud mouth and others think he is freaking hilarious and would be a joy to play for. Just depends on what you enjoy about a leader.

 

Like not everyone loves playing for LaRussa or Scioscia, for example. Two managers definitely known as being among the top tier in the game, along with Maddon (Scioscia's protege), Torre, Leyland, Gardenhire, etc.

 

Dave Martinez is a name that is mentioned quite frequently....and he has that Angels/Rays mentality already ingrained, which seems a good fit for the current roster composition of our ballclub and it's strategic approach.

 

But I agree with FATHOM, it really kind of stuck out, usually Gonzales is pretty "even-keeled" and it almost seemed like it was something put out there (a floating bullet point in the long list of ammunition against OG from KW or Hahn?) for some unknown reason, but it's definitely not insignificant, it's quite an important admission from our best beat writer.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

The most telling example of clubhouse discord to me was the fallout behind the Getz comments coupled with Dye's obvious discomfort with having Rios on the team. Something was at work behind the scenes between the veterans and the younger core.

[iamshack]

I think all you have to do is look at the win-loss record of a team and you'll see whether things are nasty or if they are hunky dory.

 

When you have winning teams, you have everyone patting eachother on the back. When you underperform and don't meet expectations, you have a lot of backstabbing and infighting. Again, this happens in all walks of life, whenever a group of people are put together with a goal to achieve.

[fathom]

And you know what, they really aren't that much different. I think, barring a huge winning streak, this will be Ozzie's last year.

 

I also think this might be KW's last year. He might step down and take a different position...aka the Paxson Promotion.

[fathom]

I think all you have to do is look at the win-loss record of a team and you'll see whether things are nasty or if they are hunky dory.

 

When you have winning teams, you have everyone patting eachother on the back. When you underperform and don't meet expectations, you have a lot of backstabbing and infighting. Again, this happens in all walks of life, whenever a group of people are put together with a goal to achieve.

 

They made the postseason in 2008, and the clubhouse was awful!

[Leonard Zelig]

The thing is, if you have someone like Swisher absolutely ripping Ozzie with his Yankees teammates, what's to stop them from voting that they wouldn't want to play for Ozzie? The poll isn't what concerns me, it's the fact that a Sox beat reporter who never creates controversy is reporting that there's a handful of players that feel this way, and one or more is still on the team.

It did not say that player is still on the team, it said that player's agent has players on the team.

[fathom]

The most telling example of clubhouse discord to me was the fallout behind the Getz comments coupled with Dye's obvious discomfort with having Rios on the team. Something was at work behind the scenes between the veterans and the younger core.

 

I'm looking forward to a clubhouse led by guys like Peavy/Beckham/Rios/Thornton. I think things will improve greatly.

Edited May 27, 2010 by fathom

[fathom]

It did not say that player is still on the team, it said that player's agent has players on the team.

 

gotcha, that makes it a little better.

[iamshack]

They made the postseason in 2008, and the clubhouse was awful!

Well, it's more a general rule of thumb, and secondly, it's not like they made the postseason because they were winning down the stretch. They won because of the ineptitude of the Twins.

[fathom]

Well, it's more a general rule of thumb, and secondly, it's not like they made the postseason because they were winning down the stretch. They won because of the ineptitude of the Twins.

 

True, but you don't often see teams actually make the postseason and have such severe chemistry issues as that team did (ie: Swisher complaining about being benched in the postseason).

[Balta1701]

True, but you don't often see teams actually make the postseason and have such severe chemistry issues as that team did (ie: Swisher complaining about being benched in the postseason).

And yet Griffey seemed to love that clubhouse. Maybe they let him sleep in?

[caulfield12]

The most telling example of clubhouse discord to me was the fallout behind the Getz comments coupled with Dye's obvious discomfort with having Rios on the team. Something was at work behind the scenes between the veterans and the younger core.

 

Forgot about Getz and Fields. Of course, you can argue neither of these guys were that great to begin with, especially Getz, but Fields....let's hope Beckham's 2009 doesn't equal Fields in 2007 and we never see the same results out of Gordo again.

 

That's almost too devastating to comprehend....Gonzales wrote how one scout said he'd be surprised if the league didn't figure out Beckham in 2010, and he was pretty much right on the money. OTOH, if you said the same thing about the top five rookies every year repeating their succcess (dealing with league-wide adjustments, especially hitters), you'd be right at least 50-75% of the time on those sophomore slumps. Same thing happened with Ramirez and Quentin, although he wasn't a rookie in 2008, he wasn't so far removed from being a rookie, either.