7.5 games back.

[GreatScott82]

We are 7.5 games back, 6 games under .500 and only have 3 guys hitting the ball and the pitching just hasn't been there for the most part. This rotating DH thing has been a nightmare. Ozzie has been outmanaged in most of the games thus far. We are built for now and next year and so far have been failing bad. Its obvious KW laid an egg by listening to Ozzie's wishes. He wanted a high OBP guy in the middle of the lineup but failed to bring him over. We need to start thinking about the future if this thing continues to unravel. If we don't finish May .500, something needs to be done with the organization. I think a change at the top needs to happen. I'm not saying KW needs to go- i'm more or less leaning toward axing Ozzie- his rants are getting old and he doesn't seem to have the team pulling on the same side of the rope like he used to in the past. That being said, I'm not a big fan of firing a manager during a season. Before that happens, I would like KW get some value back for certain players.

 

1. Sell high on PK. He is playing way over his head right now- it would be a perfect time to deal him for young arms. KW can use those young arms + some to aqcuire Adrian Gonzalez. Why trade PK to bring in AGon if the season is a wash you say? Well, you would have AGon for cheap for 1.5 seasons- if we struggle in 2011- you can deal him for probably more talent than your giving up for him.

 

2. What about AJ? I would see whats out there? Maybe bring in a few mid-level arms that can hopefully develop in our system. I want to see what Flowers can do sooner than later.

 

3. What about Peavy and Rios? Its simple, nobody are going to want these contracts and to be honest with you i dont mind. I love these 2 players. Rios has been great this year- his defense is solid and he is perfect in the 5 or 6th spot. Peavy is looking better and better each time out. If there are a few guys making the big bucks on our team the next few seasons, i wouldn't mind it being them. In fact i wouldn't mind if KW keeps the rotation in tact.

 

4. Teahen and Pierre- I'm not a big fan of both of these guys. Teahen's defense is below average and his hitting is subpar at best. I want to improve 3b. If anything start thinking about developing Viciedo over there. As far as Pierre goes, get this guy off the field. Yea he can steal them with the best but his defense is attrotious. There is a reason LA made him their 4th OF and primary pinch runner. Thats what he is.

 

5. Ozzie and his coaching staff. Ozzie said, i will go down first before his coaching staff. Well maybe its time to go because Walk isn't maximizing his hitter's potential and Ozzie is getting outmanaged frequently these days.

Edited May 8, 2010 by GreatScott82

[Palehosefan]

I just don't see Kenny taking a chance on Adrian Gonzalez and his upcoming pricetag, not with 22k attendance at home games.

 

Trading Konerko to Boston for 1B Lars Anderson and someone like OF Ryan Kalish or C Luis Exposito would seem to make sense for both sides.

 

I think you have to hold AJ for a few weeks longer to let some of his value return. However, I'm all for seeing what Lucy and Flowers can do the rest of the way.

[jenksycat]

We are 7.5 games back, 6 games under .500 and only have 3 guys hitting the ball and the pitching just hasn't been there for the most part. This rotating DH thing has been a nightmare. Ozzie has been outmanaged in most of the games thus far. We are built for now and next year and so far have been failing bad. Its obvious KW laid an egg by listening to Ozzie's wishes. He wanted a high OBP guy in the middle of the lineup but failed to bring him over. We need to start thinking about the future if this thing continues to unravel. If we don't finish May .500, something needs to be done with the organization. I think a change at the top needs to happen. I'm not saying KW needs to go- i'm more or less leaning toward axing Ozzie- his rants are getting old and he doesn't seem to have the team pulling on the same side of the rope like he used to in the past. That being said, I'm not a big fan of firing a manager during a season. Before that happens, I would like KW get some value back for certain players.

 

1. Sell high on PK. He is playing way over his head right now- it would be a perfect time to deal him for young arms. KW can use those young arms + some to aqcuire Adrian Gonzalez. Why trade PK to bring in AGon if the season is a wash you say? Well, you would have AGon for cheap for 1.5 seasons- if we struggle in 2011- you can deal him for probably more talent than your giving up for him.

 

2. What about AJ? I would see whats out there? Maybe bring in a few mid-level arms that can hopefully develop in our system. I want to see what Flowers can do sooner than later.

 

3. What about Peavy and Rios? Its simple, nobody are going to want these contracts and to be honest with you i dont mind. I love these 2 players. Rios has been great this year- his defense is solid and he is perfect in the 5 or 6th spot. Peavy is looking better and better each time out. If there are a few guys making the big bucks on our team the next few seasons, i wouldn't mind it being them. In fact i wouldn't mind if KW keeps the rotation in tact.

 

4. Teahen and Pierre- I'm not a big fan of both of these guys. Teahen's defense is below average and his hitting is subpar at best. I want to improve 3b. If anything start thinking about developing Viciedo over there. As far as Pierre goes, get this guy off the field. Yea he can steal them with the best but his defense is attrotious. There is a reason LA made him their 4th OF and primary pinch runner. Thats what he is.

 

5. Ozzie and his coaching staff. Ozzie said, i will go down first before his coaching staff. Well maybe its time to go because Walk isn't maximizing his hitter's potential and Ozzie is getting outmanaged frequently these days.

 

Not too difficult to "out manage" this team. Such a stupid argument, not a manager on f***ing earth would have done anything with this team.

[caulfield12]

We are 7.5 games back, 6 games under .500 and only have 3 guys hitting the ball and the pitching just hasn't been there for the most part. This rotating DH thing has been a nightmare. Ozzie has been outmanaged in most of the games thus far. We are built for now and next year and so far have been failing bad. Its obvious KW laid an egg by listening to Ozzie's wishes. He wanted a high OBP guy in the middle of the lineup but failed to bring him over. We need to start thinking about the future if this thing continues to unravel. If we don't finish May .500, something needs to be done with the organization. I think a change at the top needs to happen. I'm not saying KW needs to go- i'm more or less leaning toward axing Ozzie- his rants are getting old and he doesn't seem to have the team pulling on the same side of the rope like he used to in the past. That being said, I'm not a big fan of firing a manager during a season. Before that happens, I would like KW get some value back for certain players.

 

1. Sell high on PK. He is playing way over his head right now- it would be a perfect time to deal him for young arms. KW can use those young arms + some to aqcuire Adrian Gonzalez. Why trade PK to bring in AGon if the season is a wash you say? Well, you would have AGon for cheap for 1.5 seasons- if we struggle in 2011- you can deal him for probably more talent than your giving up for him.

 

2. What about AJ? I would see whats out there? Maybe bring in a few mid-level arms that can hopefully develop in our system. I want to see what Flowers can do sooner than later.

 

3. What about Peavy and Rios? Its simple, nobody are going to want these contracts and to be honest with you i dont mind. I love these 2 players. Rios has been great this year- his defense is solid and he is perfect in the 5 or 6th spot. Peavy is looking better and better each time out. If there are a few guys making the big bucks on our team the next few seasons, i wouldn't mind it being them. In fact i wouldn't mind if KW keeps the rotation in tact.

 

4. Teahen and Pierre- I'm not a big fan of both of these guys. Teahen's defense is below average and his hitting is subpar at best. I want to improve 3b. If anything start thinking about developing Viciedo over there. As far as Pierre goes, get this guy off the field. Yea he can steal them with the best but his defense is attrotious. There is a reason LA made him their 4th OF and primary pinch runner. Thats what he is.

 

5. Ozzie and his coaching staff. Ozzie said, i will go down first before his coaching staff. Well maybe its time to go because Walk isn't maximizing his hitter's potential and Ozzie is getting outmanaged frequently these days.

 

 

No way we'll take on Adrian Gonzalez without him agreeing to a LT contract extension. And that's NOT happening, forget it.

 

Yes on trades of PK, AJ, Jenks, Putz and Andruw Jones, depending on what we can get back in terms of value. We might LISTEN to offers on Alexei Ramirez as well, if they decide he won't become the player he was in 2008 again and cut the cord. Still, Beckham shouldn't be moved to SS, so we'd have to find a SS who can put up a 700 OPS, Escobar is too far away.

 

Even if you traded Paulie today, you would get a B or C prospect back...not a Top 4-6 type guy in any minor league system. You just want to offload the money from the payroll and give playing time to Flowers and Viciedo there, as well as someone who's just a stopgap like Josh Kroeger to get you through the remainder of the season.

 

No for Viciedo at 3B, he's already been moved off that position to 1B/DH and maybe LF/RF (possibly). Morel is our best candidate, the big question is his bat, but at least he can defend. We might need to play Nix there as a stopgap, or a veteran for first half 2010 until Morel is ready.

Edited May 8, 2010 by caulfield12

[GreatScott82]

Not too difficult to "out manage" this team. Such a stupid argument, not a manager on f***ing earth would have done anything with this team.

So your blaiming Kenny? Give us more reasoning other than saying its a 'stupid argument'.

[jeffro2525]

Not too difficult to "out manage" this team. Such a stupid argument, not a manager on f***ing earth would have done anything with this team.

 

That may be true...but when your team is already bad, getting outmanaged just multiplies the problem. Lastnights game was a great example of a win that thanks to Ozzie...ended up being a loss. The team isn't good enough to outperform Ozzie's head-scratchers anymore.

[GreatScott82]

That may be true...but when your team is already bad, getting outmanaged just multiplies the problem. Lastnights game was a great example of a win that thanks to Ozzie...ended up being a loss. The team isn't good enough to outperform Ozzie's head-scratchers anymore.

thank you Jeffro! i couldn't have said it better.

[caulfield12]

Jamie Kotsay wouldn't even put her husband in the line-up so much...and certainly not in the 3 or 5 spot.

 

Yet Ozzie's "man crushes" (I Love You, Man!) for Vizquel and Kotsay continue unabated.

[spiderman]

I think they are, if not done, clearly on life support. I think there's a 90% chance that they already aren't good enough to catch the Twins, and it's probably closer to 95%.

 

The offense is flat out horrible, and the starting pitching still leaves us wondering what we're going to get from everyone except Danks. These guys have to be near perfect to win a game with an offense that can't score consistently.

 

To answer the original points from this post.

 

1) Konerko will probably eventually be dealt in July, but I also expect him to slow down considerably. Just the same, I don't see the White Sox adding Goznalez - they need to more young players, not trade them away. This team is more than one really good player away. They have holes right now all over the place.

 

2) A.J. is a free agent after the season, so there's a pretty good chance that he'll be mentioned as well come July. I don't think he'll bring much in return though.

 

3) Peavy and Rios will be here.

 

4) Teahan and Pierre will be here, neither guy has any value.

 

5) I don't expect Ozzie to be in any trouble.

[GreatScott82]

Jamie Kotsay wouldn't even put her husband in the line-up so much...and certainly not in the 3 or 5 spot.

 

Yet Ozzie's "man crushes" (I Love You, Man!) for Vizquel and Kotsay continue unabated.

oh yes the ever loving rotating DH!

[caulfield12]

Ozzie will be in "moderate/medium-high" trouble if this season spins away completely and we lose 90 games. KW's trouble with JR, about 2-3 on a ten scale. I'd put Ozzie at 6-7, with the possibility of escalating to 7-8 with more games (losses) last night due to atrocious decision-making.

 

BTW, AJ's 10 and 5 year rights kick in before July, I don't know the exact date, but trading him gets a heckuva lot more complicated after JUNE.

 

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Re-sign AJ and trade Josh Flowers or Tyler Borchard or whatever his name is while he still has good trade value before everyone else finds out he's over-hyped.

[ThunderBolt]

The only platers who i want active value for are Konerko, A.J. and Paulie, and maybe Jones. Everyone else is young enough to be on this core, or crappy enough to not have any value (Pierre, Kotsay)

[caulfield12]

Already too many questions about Flowers to get a huge return in trade.

 

He has more value to our organization as AJ's replacement, and as a high OPS line-up match-up advantage over every player in our division but Mr. Mauer.

Edited May 8, 2010 by caulfield12

[jeffro2525]

Ozzie will be in "moderate/medium-high" trouble if this season spins away completely and we lose 90 games. KW's trouble with JR, about 2-3 on a ten scale. I'd put Ozzie at 6-7, with the possibility of escalating to 7-8 with more games (losses) last night due to atrocious decision-making.

 

BTW, AJ's 10 and 5 year rights kick in before July, I don't know the exact date, but trading him gets a heckuva lot more complicated after JUNE.

 

Ozzie won't survive the year if he acts the way he did in 2007, when it almost seemed as though he was trying to get fired with his big mouth as the season degenerated into a 90 loss campaigne.

[caulfield12]

The only platers who i want active value for are Konerko, A.J. and Paulie, and maybe Jones. Everyone else is young enough to be on this core, or crappy enough to not have any value (Pierre, Kotsay)

 

 

Putz could end up giving us a very nice return if he can get back the explosiveness on his FB and splitter.

[spiderman]

I don't think we'll get back much of anything for our players unless it's Konerko, and he's got 25 HR in July. Even then, with him being a free agent, some teams won't go overboard.

[jphat007]

I don't think we'll get back much of anything for our players unless it's Konerko, and he's got 25 HR in July. Even then, with him being a free agent, some teams won't go overboard.

 

Unfortunately not. Maybe AJ can get hot and a catcher gets hurt somewhere. I think Paulie will bring something nice. But the three players we really want to get rid of (Pierre, Teahen, Jenks) nobody is going to want.

[spiderman]

Unfortunately not. Maybe AJ can get hot and a catcher gets hurt somewhere. I think Paulie will bring something nice. But the three players we really want to get rid of (Pierre, Teahen, Jenks) nobody is going to want.

 

I can agree with this. Konerko will provide something if he continues a strong HR total although obviously he will slow down. The problem with A.J. that I see is that he doesn't throw runners out - I'm assuming he'll get his average back into the .280 range in time, but would a team like Boston trade for him if he doesn't improve the defense? To me, if the Sox are down on Flowers, I would actually try to resign A.J. for another season.

[Balta1701]

I don't think we'll get back much of anything for our players unless it's Konerko, and he's got 25 HR in July. Even then, with him being a free agent, some teams won't go overboard.

The Indians got one of the top catching prospects in baseball for Casey Blake.

 

The key is...you deal for a guy at the lower levels, and you let him develop.

[spiderman]

The Indians got one of the top catching prospects in baseball for Casey Blake.

 

The key is...you deal for a guy at the lower levels, and you let him develop.

 

That is a good point. I will concede it's possible. We'll have to see how this plays out.

[caulfield12]

But Casey Blake had a much more "reasonable" contract at the time he was dealt than PK. And 3B is seen as a harder position to replace than 1B.

 

That makes a huge difference, how much payroll a team is willing to take on, and how much it values salary dollars (it's what caused us to give up Chris B. Young in the Vazquez deal, partially, the money we got to subsidize Javier's deal).

 

Let's not forget Linebrink as one of the four untrade-ables, to go along with Jenks/Pierre/Teahen.

 

On the "plus" side, Rios and Peavy have now moved to the point where they could be easily jettisoned from the payroll, but we couldn't get much if anything back at all...

Edited May 9, 2010 by caulfield12

[Heads22]

But Casey Blake had a much more "reasonable" contract at the time he was dealt than PK. And 3B is seen as a harder position to replace than 1B.

 

That makes a huge difference, how much payroll a team is willing to take on, and how much it values salary dollars (it's what caused us to give up Chris B. Young in the Vazquez deal, partially, the money we got to subsidize Javier's deal).

 

Let's not forget Linebrink as one of the four untrade-ables, to go along with Jenks/Pierre/Teahen.

 

On the "plus" side, Rios and Peavy have now moved to the point where they could be easily jettisoned from the payroll, but we couldn't get much if anything back at all...

 

 

You honestly think we couldn't get anything back for Rios and Peavy? Are you serious?

[fathom]

The reason the Indians got such a good prospect for Blake is cause they were willing to pay for almost all of Blake's remaining contract.

[caulfield12]

If you tried to trade Jake Peavy away two weeks ago when he was averaging an 89-90-91 MPH fastball, with his injury history and bad mechanics....????

 

Now, things have changed. (Of course, you can argue that Peavy is pointless to spend that type of money on if we don't have EITHER Danks or Buehrle to pair with in the rotation...UNLESS Daniel Hudson really is a legit #2-3 type of starter).

 

But I'd like to see your list of all the AL teams who would have taken Jake Peavy b4 his last two starts. The Yankees? Red Sox? Angels? Rangers? Mariners?

 

And what they would have given up in return? Brandon Wood? Reggie Willits?

 

 

Alex Rios...same thing? What teams in MLB can afford that contract right now, even if he is putting up an 850-900 OPS?

 

There are probably 3-5 we could name...but we wouldn't be getting a huge payout from him.

Edited May 9, 2010 by caulfield12