Gordon Beckham: What To Do?

[Wanne]

Sarcasm, Wanne.

 

gospel!

[Wanne]

That's true. Lillibridge can hit a lot better than Vizquel...

 

Is Vizquel even necessary on this roster? He supposedly was to be a mentor...of what?!? How to flail at a pitch? Do you really need 2 utility infielders? Hell...if it's necessary...I'd rather seel Morel up than have Vizquel on the roster.

[Texsox]

Major league players need to learn how to work out of slumps at the major league level. He can't spend his career expecting a few weeks in AAA to correct his problems.

 

But I would not argue too much if they did send him down.

[Dick Allen]

This isn't the last bad slump Gordon is going to be in. Robin Ventura had an 0-40, Ryne Sandburg had something similar. He'll eventually snap out of this and be better for it. Sending him down serves no purpose unless there is a front line player taking his spot. That's not Nix or Vizquel or someone currently in Charlotte.

[Quin]

Bat him 7th or 8th.

 

In 129 AB's in the 7th-8th hole, he has hit .326 and .394 respectively.

 

In the 2 hole, he's only hitting .233

 

Let him figure it out lower in the order.

[Texsox]

Bat him 7th or 8th.

 

In 129 AB's in the 7th-8th hole, he has hit .326 and .394 respectively.

 

In the 2 hole, he's only hitting .233

 

Let him figure it out lower in the order.

 

Bingo. Actually an accurate order would be 1-3-4-8-8-8-8-9-9

[SoxAce]

Drop him down in the order for three weeks. If that doesn't cut it, let him play in AAA

 

Thank you. I've been advocating to drop him down for a while now. He should not be hitting 2 in the order. Bat him 6th or lower and let him gain some confidence for himself, and a less PA for the team's sake. I wanna say put Rios 2nd, but he's been mashing where he's been in the order and I do not want to move him out, though I'm not opposed to giving that man more PA. I would give him longer than 3 weeks personally, but thats just me. Sending Beckham down would kill a chunk of the fan base who is still with this team, not to mention he's one of the few players I (along with other fellow sox fans I know) love watching on this team personally. Even with his struggles, you can argue he is still producing a very good walk rate to get on base and help this team minus today.

Edited May 10, 2010 by SoxAce

[Quin]

Bingo. Actually an accurate order would be 1-3-4-8-8-8-8-9-9

 

Ideally I'd have

 

1 - Pierre (If he starts hitting)

2 - Rios

3 - Jones

4 - Konerko

5 - Quentin

6 - AJ

7 - Beckham

8 - Teahen

9 - Alexei

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I would hit him lower in the order. If he's still hitting like s*** a couple weeks from now, I'd send him down. Season might be lost by then anyways.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I would rather Beckham be sent down in the lineup, not sent down to AAA. I don't think it will help him w/ the breaking ball if he goes to AAA and faces mediocre ones. The only thing I can see a AAA stint doing is boosting his confidence by crushing bad pitching, then again, it may rattle his confidence by losing his job. So, I'd rather he just start hitting out of the 7th or 8th spot.

[spiderman]

At the very least, if they are going to keep him in the majors, it's time to move him down the lineup - 7th, 8th or 9th. He isn't hitting. I'd give him another 5 games or so hitting down the order to see if that helps him at all. From there, it's either bench him a few games, and try him again (with Nix as a capable 2B, they could actually do this first as well, but I think I'd rather see the Sox fall 10 games out with Beckham and the rest of the guys we expected to help the team in the lineup) or send him to the minors to work out his problems.

 

 

[hammerhead johnson]

Settle down, ladies. We've only played 32 games. Why don't you give it a little more time before you send the gawd down to the minors.

[sircaffey]

32 games is a very long time to look absolutely horrible.

[greg775]

Bat Gordo ninth, but sending him down to play Nix is not a good idea.

Actually I'd bat Gordon eighth and Juan ninth.

[southsideirish71]

Sending Beckham down is a bad idea on multiple fronts.

 

1.) The confidence angle. For all of you who think that sending Beckham down is gong to take pressure off of this kid. I think you misread this personality. I think it will do more damage than good. We stuck with Brian Anderson for a lot longer than this, and he was hot garbage.

 

2.) The hey we can insert X player in the lineup. Well guess what in Guillens world X player is Omar Vizquel. Thats who will be playing day in and day out in that position. Even with Beckham in a funk, what kind of real offensive upgrade are you getting, none. Nix is buried on Ozzie Guillens bench today. Do you really think that Guillen is going to see the light and play Nix. Its going to be Omar and thats pretty much how it will happen.

 

3.) He can fix X down in Charlotte. AAA is not the holding spot for tier 1 talent. Its the place for some top talent who are blocked, and a large amount of AAAA filler that is basically hot garbage. You can survive with major flaws in your swing in AAA because garbage is throwing to you. If anything he will come up, and have another adjustment as he starts to face good pitching again.

 

 

Here is my suggestion.

 

1.) Drop the kid down in the lineup. The fact that this hasn't been done yet is a joke. Stop with the speeches about what the kid is or isn't and drop him down.

2.) Bring in Walt Hrinak or some other roving instructor to work with him. I am not getting into a debate about the hitting coach, but obviously this kid who is pretty damn valuable for the organization needs some specific help. A different voice is needed.

3.) Spell him based on matchups. You don't have this kid face Roy Halladay, etc until he gets his s*** together.

 

 

[qwerty]

At the very least, if they are going to keep him in the majors, it's time to move him down the lineup - 7th, 8th or 9th. He isn't hitting. I'd give him another 5 games or so hitting down the order to see if that helps him at all. From there, it's either bench him a few games, and try him again (with Nix as a capable 2B, they could actually do this first as well, but I think I'd rather see the Sox fall 10 games out with Beckham and the rest of the guys we expected to help the team in the lineup) or send him to the minors to work out his problems.

 

 

So if the season were to be lost by that point what exactly is the benefit? Confidence worries have been brought up in this thread, and for good reason. This is all hypothetically speaking so bear with me. Both for the good and bad. The only scenario i can see confidence issues not coming into play is if the sox were doing well (even very well) on the season. The reason i say that is because any logical person would look at the situation (the player) and realize there is a legitimate reason for the decision. The reason being is he has not pulled his share, and let's say it's by a good margin. Simply being outproduced by the vast majority of the team.

 

Let's say beckham were to be terrible two months or so in the season. Then let's say the sox were to be basement dwellers with no chance of looking up. I personally know if i were in his shoes that zero confidence would be instilled if no other action was taken with everyone else...if they (vast majority) were producing in the same bleak manner. This is the the worst route i think a team can go with a player like beckham. Beckham has the ability to be a rather valuable asset in this game.

 

This is me speaking 100% objectively.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd give Gordon another 50 PA's or so. He's had 130 to this point. I just don't see how demolishing AAA pitching is going to magically resurrect his game. And to send him down would for all intents and purposes be forfeiting the season, IMO. You hype this guy up as the new "face" of the organization and in less than 40 games he's back at AAA hitting behind Brent Lillibridge? Move him down or whatever. But I most definitely would not send him down. Even with the woeful BA, he's still sporting an OBP of over .300. I know, that's grasping at straws. But it's something. How many BB has he had the last 7 games? 8 or 9?

[qwerty]

Sending Beckham down is a bad idea on multiple fronts.

 

1.) The confidence angle. For all of you who think that sending Beckham down is gong to take pressure off of this kid. I think you misread this personality. I think it will do more damage than good. We stuck with Brian Anderson for a lot longer than this, and he was hot garbage.

 

2.) The hey we can insert X player in the lineup. Well guess what in Guillens world X player is Omar Vizquel. Thats who will be playing day in and day out in that position. Even with Beckham in a funk, what kind of real offensive upgrade are you getting, none. Nix is buried on Ozzie Guillens bench today. Do you really think that Guillen is going to see the light and play Nix. Its going to be Omar and thats pretty much how it will happen.

 

3.) He can fix X down in Charlotte. AAA is not the holding spot for tier 1 talent. Its the place for some top talent who are blocked, and a large amount of AAAA filler that is basically hot garbage. You can survive with major flaws in your swing in AAA because garbage is throwing to you. If anything he will come up, and have another adjustment as he starts to face good pitching again.

 

 

Here is my suggestion.

 

1.) Drop the kid down in the lineup. The fact that this hasn't been done yet is a joke. Stop with the speeches about what the kid is or isn't and drop him down.

2.) Bring in Walt Hrinak or some other roving instructor to work with him. I am not getting into a debate about the hitting coach, but obviously this kid who is pretty damn valuable for the organization needs some specific help. A different voice is needed.

3.) Spell him based on matchups. You don't have this kid face Roy Halladay, etc until he gets his s*** together.

 

I know you said you don't want to get into a debate about hitting coaches. Neither do i. This is just for the masses. I would say this is for the people, and there are a bunch of them, that don't believe a hitting coach (a guru even) has an impact. There are countless hitters who credit others (does not necessarily have to be a hitting coach) for their career. Could be have been something as simple as the tiniest mechanical flaw, something of which that player would have never figured out for the life of him. Very same goes for pitchers.

 

I am a full firm believer in both pitching and hitting coaches having the ability to mold a player. Yes i do realize they cannot go out their and pitch or hit the ball. What it comes down to is things are so much more in depth than just that. I cannot stress that enough. I have read too many books about the players... by the players... to believe narrow minded people. People that do not even believe in the remote possibility.

Edited May 10, 2010 by qwerty

[qwerty]

I'd give Gordon another 50 PA's or so. He's had 130 to this point. I just don't see how demolishing AAA pitching is going to magically resurrect his game. And to send him down would for all intents and purposes be forfeiting the season, IMO. You hype this guy up as the new "face" of the organization and in less than 40 games he's back at AAA hitting behind Brent Lillibridge? Move him down or whatever. But I most definitely would not send him down. Even with the woeful BA, he's still sporting an OBP of over .300. I know, that's grasping at straws. But it's something. How many BB has he had the last 7 games? 8 or 9?

 

Well the last seven games, six actually, beckham has walked 8 times. From the 3rd to the 5th he walked twice in each game. Two more times on saturday. The 12.8% bb% is a great sign, though on the other hand he is striking out at a rate that has taken a considerable turn for the worse. He went from being nearly 3% below average last season at 17.2% to nearly 3% above average at 23.1%. Once that gets turned around, which good hitters make happen, he will be just fine.

 

Btw, the league average walk rate is generally around 8% or so. Last season beckham was at a pretty decent bb% of 9.5%, which is pretty good all things considering.

Edited May 10, 2010 by qwerty

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well the last seven games, six actually, beckham has walked 8 times. From the 3rd to the 5th he walked twice in each game. Two more times on saturday. The 12.8% bb% is a great sign, though on the other hand he is striking out at a rate that has taken a considerable turn for the worse. He went from being nearly 3% below average last season at 17.2% to nearly 3% above average at 23.1%. Once that gets turned around, which good hitters make happen, he will be just fine.

 

Btw, the league average walk rate is generally around 8% or so. Last season beckham was at a pretty decent bb% of 9.5%, which is pretty good all things considering.

 

May I ask where you find league average stats? In particular league average stats for specific positions?

[qwerty]

May I ask where you find league average stats? In particular league average stats for specific positions?

 

I read tons of articles, from here, and there, etc. That is how i personally know league average rates, i just memorize them. If i don't know some sort of league average rate then i would just use the information out there which is accessible to find out for myself. I would go that route if i couldn't find the answer from a simple search, which it comes down to more times than not.

 

What you are asking for does not exist to my knowledge. Or it could just be how i am interpreting it. Some sort of complete database for every stat known to man that breaks down league average stats... per league, per year, per decade, etc. I'm not just talking the basics. What i'm talking about is a place that has league average stats for even the most detailed of stats. I will say this much, all the tools to create such does exist.

 

Both baseball reference and the hardball times have/had league average stats here and there, but nothing exceptional.

 

This is a pretty nice site, though what he has done can be expanded upon so much further it's kinda hard for me to comprehend.

 

http://www.knology.net/~johnfjarvis/stats.html

 

I have stopped by there in the past and gotten caught up for far too long. Some unique things you can find there.

 

Off topic... but...

 

Simply a vital must see site.

Edited May 10, 2010 by qwerty

[spiderman]

Settle down, ladies. We've only played 32 games. Why don't you give it a little more time before you send the gawd down to the minors.

 

If the White Sox were 3 or 4 games out, I'd be with you. I'm still partially with you - I'd prefer to give him more time before sending him to the minors, but we're on the verge, if we haven't already surpassed it, of being done.

[spiderman]

So if the season were to be lost by that point what exactly is the benefit? Confidence worries have been brought up in this thread, and for good reason. This is all hypothetically speaking so bear with me. Both for the good and bad. The only scenario i can see confidence issues not coming into play is if the sox were doing well (even very well) on the season. The reason i say that is because any logical person would look at the situation (the player) and realize there is a legitimate reason for the decision. The reason being is he has not pulled his share, and let's say it's by a good margin. Simply being outproduced by the vast majority of the team.

 

Let's say beckham were to be terrible two months or so in the season. Then let's say the sox were to be basement dwellers with no chance of looking up. I personally know if i were in his shoes that zero confidence would be instilled if no other action was taken with everyone else...if they (vast majority) were producing in the same bleak manner. This is the the worst route i think a team can go with a player like beckham. Beckham has the ability to be a rather valuable asset in this game.

 

This is me speaking 100% objectively.

 

I, like other Sox fans, want to see him get his act together in the majors. The fact is, he hasn't looked like a major league player through the first month of the season, and you have to wonder if perhaps, despite how well he played last season, he'd be bettter served by fixing himself in the minors, with no pressure, rather than continuing to press in the majors. Again, my first solution is to move him down the order, and see if that helps him, but at some point, if it's nearing the end of May, and he's hitting under .200, this has to be considered.

[flavum]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Beckham is a lifetime .213 hitter at US Cellular Field. Very alarming. Even if you take away his 2-24 start at the Cell last year, he's still only .223. I think most of this is in his head. He just needs to find a way to be successful at home, and I think he'll come out of it ok.

 

For now, bat him 7th or 8th for a couple weeks, and if he continues to suck, send him down to Charlotte until he gets his swing back.

[dmbjeff]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Beckham is a lifetime .213 hitter at US Cellular Field. Very alarming. Even if you take away his 2-24 start at the Cell last year, he's still only .223. I think most of this is in his head. He just needs to find a way to be successful at home, and I think he'll come out of it ok.

 

For now, bat him 7th or 8th for a couple weeks, and if he continues to suck, send him down to Charlotte until he gets his swing back.

 

Maybe change his intro music?