Replacing Jenks

[Balta1701]

we can get a better prospect in return.

Really, not going to happen. If you're intelligent you could steal someone from low A-ball and have them turn into something useful in 2-3 years, but paying an extra $500k on a guy who looks finished is not likely to be the difference between getting a stud back and a brent Lillibridge back.

[pktmotion]

Doesn't seem like Bobby is too happy with possibly being removed. It will be interesting if we go with Thornton as the closer, because it would be similar to how the Cubs moved Marmol to closer. When that happens, the 7th/8th innings you used to take for granted become a lot more difficult.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5175927

 

 

I think the best move would be to put Santos into the closer role and shifting Bobby to mid-relief/setup. It's unpopular because you'll have people say, he's too young, it'll ruin his development, etc. The man is unhittable, his stuff doesn't merit any inexperience, and he's fearless. Much like Bobby circa 2005. where his dominance ultimately demoted Takatsu, our closer at the time.

 

It's really remarkable how history repeats itself and I hope the White Sox have learned form Bobby Jenks and apply these lessons when dealing with Sergio Santos. The lesson is closers are flash in the pan. Ride them while they're dominant and sell them at the highest trade value. But with our luck the opposite will happen and our team will have another over-paid middle reliever.

[Balta1701]

I think the best move would be to put Santos into the closer role and shifting Bobby to mid-relief/setup. It's unpopular because you'll have people say, he's too young, it'll ruin his development, etc. The man is unhittable, his stuff doesn't merit any inexperience, and he's fearless. Much like Bobby circa 2005. where his dominance ultimately demoted Takatsu, our closer at the time.

 

It's really remarkable how history repeats itself and I hope the White Sox have learned form Bobby Jenks and apply these lessons when dealing with Sergio Santos. The lesson is closers are flash in the pan. Ride them while they're dominant and sell them at the highest trade value. But with our luck the opposite will happen and our team will have another over-paid middle reliever.

Incorrect. Bobby neither replaced Takatsu or dominated in the Closer's role in 2005. He was 6/8 in saves in the regular season (only 75%) and blew the save in game 2 of the WS as well. Bobby took over the Closer's role from Hermanson, who's back finally gave out after 4 months in the closing role. Hermanson took over from Takatsu. Bobby only took the closer's role by default, after Hermanson was unable to pitch.

[pktmotion]

Incorrect. Bobby neither replaced Takatsu or dominated in the Closer's role in 2005. He was 6/8 in saves in the regular season (only 75%) and blew the save in game 2 of the WS as well. Bobby took over the Closer's role from Hermanson, who's back finally gave out after 4 months in the closing role. Hermanson took over from Takatsu. Bobby only took the closer's role by default, after Hermanson was unable to pitch.

 

Apologies for the incorrect data. My memory isn't as good as it once was. My point was to illustrate how Santos is fearless/dominant, much like the Jenks of the past. And how I think the White Sox would be better suited to have him close games and keep everyone else in their roles, instead of plugging in Thornton/Putz at closer and subsequently moving up Williams, Linebrink, or Pena.

[Balta1701]

Apologies for the incorrect data. My memory isn't as good as it once was. My point was to illustrate how Santos is fearless/dominant, much like the Jenks of the past. And how I think the White Sox would be better suited to have him close games and keep everyone else in their roles, instead of plugging in Thornton/Putz at closer and subsequently moving up Williams, Linebrink, or Pena.

Here's another way to look at it. If we get to July and we're still 10+ games out of the race...either Thornton or Putz are both more valuable as trade-chips if they have 10 saves under their belt than if they don't have any.

[WCSox]

Here's another way to look at it. If we get to July and we're still 10+ games out of the race...either Thornton or Putz are both more valuable as trade-chips if they have 10 saves under their belt than if they don't have any.

 

My guess is that the Sox want to pick up Thornton's $3M team option, and that they look to deal Putz in that scenario. Moving Putz to closer also makes sense, given the success that he's had there in the past. No guarantee that he'll succeed there now (he hasn't looked very good so far), but selling him as a closer would make sense if they have nothing to play for by July.

 

[pktmotion]

Here's another way to look at it. If we get to July and we're still 10+ games out of the race...either Thornton or Putz are both more valuable as trade-chips if they have 10 saves under their belt than if they don't have any.

 

That's a great point, and I think if they are going to go that route that decision should be made fairly soon. I have a hard time seeing them move Thornton, with the lack of another left handed threat, but he would net a pretty good return. Who do you think closes if Thornton or Putz is moved?

[Balta1701]

That's a great point, and I think if they are going to go that route that decision should be made fairly soon. I have a hard time seeing them move Thornton, with the lack of another left handed threat, but he would net a pretty good return. Who do you think closes if Thornton or Putz is moved?

In July, if we're selling hard, I'm not sure I really care.

 

That'd be an ideal time to try Santos out in that role if we want to try him there long term. Zero pressure, no one cares if you blow 2 of your first 3 chances if you're already 15 out and Konerko, Rios, Jones, Putz, and Jenks have been sold off.

[lostfan]

1st blown save and everyone's on the ledge.

Saves can be a really overrated stat. This is why.

[The Gooch]

And if that 1-2 run lead is in the 8th against the heart of their order? You want big Linebrink in there just to save Thorton for the bottom of their lineup in the 9th? I'll pass on that, thanks.

 

I think its pretty much a given that your best pitcher in the bullpen should be the closer. When Jenks was dealing earlier in his career, did we bring him in for the 8th inning in those types of situations? Hell, Thornton can pitch 2 innings if he's had enough rest. He's done it this season already.

[Balta1701]

I think its pretty much a given that your best pitcher in the bullpen should be the closer. When Jenks was dealing earlier in his career, did we bring him in for the 8th inning in those types of situations?

Really, I don't think we did. He went from mop-up or extra innings duty straight into the closer's spot. Look at his game logs...in his first outings prior to his first save, he recorded only 1 hold, he pitched a couple of multi-inning outings, including in extra innings, and he got a fair number of "finished games" where he came in when the team was losing and finished off the 8th inning or came in when the team had a big lead and it wasn't a save situation to finish the game.

[southsider2k5]

Just to play Devil's advocate (b/c I wouldn't mind Santos pitching the 9th) but he has only pitched 42 innings in his ENTIRE PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL CAREER. That's really all that needs to be said. But I am cool with it still.

 

EDITED for 42 innings.

 

This is exactly why Santos won't, and shouldn't, be the closer. The kid has zero experience, and zero arm built up. He is already being babied to prevent another sore arm like he saw last year, plus the kid is still learning. The Sox are balls on accurate in how they are handling Santos. If they play their cards right, he will be the closer in a year or two. If they screw it up, they Ankiel him.

[Quin]

Anyone else think Coop should slap Bobby until he throws his hammer curve again?

[lostfan]

Anyone else think Coop should slap Bobby until he throws his hammer curve again?

As long as it doesn't mean a potential arm injury.

[caulfield12]

Does anyone consider Boone Logan a Cooper "failure"? Just asking...

 

I think Jenks' struggles have NOTHING to do with Cooper, FWIW. It's all about location, and the unwillingness to throw the yellow hammer, for whatever reason (pain in the elbow?)

[Princess Dye]

Guy 1: "Closers need special experience! Closing is a special thing Santos doesnt have the experience"

 

Guy 2: "Jenks didnt have the experience either in '05"

 

 

 

Basically this post will save us 100 future posts in the next week. Just cut and paste as needed.

 

If you ask me, Bobby has built a career off how easy it is for some people to close. When he's in there with the lead in the 9th, people overswing against him year after year. When he's in during a tie game, people calm down and just tee off on his middling offerings.

 

This year, he's been so bad that situation doesnt matter.

 

Now, if Santos is great, he'll be great in an array of situations.

 

On the radio today Spiegel was going on about how Matt Thornton doesnt have the closer's mentality. Call me crazy but I'll take the arm and take my chances.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Princess Dye

[whitesoxfan101]

Bobby's salary, club control situation, and stuff combined with our record all indicate we shouldn't bother with him closing anymore in my opinion. The question is, do you want to try Thornton to see if he can close, try Santos to see how a young guy with incredible stuff does in that role, or try Putz and hope he does well so you can get something for him at the trade deadline? Honestly, I'd like to keep Thornton in the role he has now. As for Putz vs. Santos, I wouldn't mind giving either a shot at the 9th inning.

[fathom]

If it's a close game in the 8th or 9th against the Twins, and Mauer/Morneau are coming up, Thornton should be brought into the game.

[BigSqwert]

Guy 1: "Closers need special experience! Closing is a special thing Santos doesnt have the experience"

 

Guy 2: "Jenks didnt have the experience either in '05"

 

 

 

Basically this post will save us 100 future posts in the next week. Just cut and paste as needed.

 

If you ask me, Bobby has built a career off how easy it is for some people to close. When he's in there with the lead in the 9th, people overswing against him year after year. When he's in during a tie game, people calm down and just tee off on his middling offerings.

 

This year, he's been so bad that situation doesnt matter.

 

Now, if Santos is great, he'll be great in an array of situations.

 

On the radio today Spiegel was going on about how Matt Thornton doesnt have the closer's mentality. Call me crazy but I'll take the arm and take my chances.

 

You're crazy.

 

[southsider2k5]

Guy 1: "Closers need special experience! Closing is a special thing Santos doesnt have the experience"

 

Guy 2: "Jenks didnt have the experience either in '05"

 

 

 

Basically this post will save us 100 future posts in the next week. Just cut and paste as needed.

 

If you ask me, Bobby has built a career off how easy it is for some people to close. When he's in there with the lead in the 9th, people overswing against him year after year. When he's in during a tie game, people calm down and just tee off on his middling offerings.

 

This year, he's been so bad that situation doesnt matter.

 

Now, if Santos is great, he'll be great in an array of situations.

 

On the radio today Spiegel was going on about how Matt Thornton doesnt have the closer's mentality. Call me crazy but I'll take the arm and take my chances.

 

It isn't about experience, it is about having something like 55 innings of total career. He hasn't built up the arm strength to be a full time closer. Santos is of no use to us if his arm falls off.

[fathom]

Spiegel was saying that someone told him from the Sox that Thornton doesn't want to close. Then, Bill Melton said later in the day that he knows for a fact Thornton wants to close.

[caulfield12]

The funny thing is that when he was first acquired for Borchard, before the famous (now) session with Cooper, Thornton asked to try becoming a starting pitcher.

[knightni]

Thornton has been a better setup man than closer.

 

When they tried to have him fill in as closer - in the past - he wasn't as effective.

[Balta1701]

If it's a close game in the 8th or 9th against the Twins, and Mauer/Morneau are coming up, Thornton should be brought into the game.

Mauer is a career .350 hitter against Thornton.

 

Morneau is at .143 against him.

[Y2HH]

Mauer is a career .350 hitter against Thornton.

 

Morneau is at .143 against him.

 

In fairness, Mauer is like a career .350 hitter against everyone.