Would it be better for the organization to get swept by the twins?

[Greg Hibbard]

What's the over/under on how many times hawk will use the phrase "tip your cap" in the season series with the twins?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

What's the over/under on how many times hawk will use the phrase "tip your cap" in the season series with the twins?

 

5

 

Would have been more if Carlos Gomez was still around.

[Greg Hibbard]

There are plenty of PLAYOFF teams that were playing rotten in May. The 03' Marlins. The 07' Rockies. The 09' Rockies. The 06' Twins.

 

You're not making any sense.

 

The '05 Astros too.

 

However, I think if we go back and looks at the playoff teams from the past ten seasons, I'd reckon 90% or more of them weren't playing this s***ty in May.

[iamshack]

How often does a team that looks like absolutely s*** in all three phases of the game turn it around like the Twins did in 06 or last year. It just doesn't happen very often, and there are a ton of teams that look like s*** in mid may.

 

Like I said, if you want to believe it can happen, more power to you. There are examples to show you that it has certainly happened. Unfortunately there are many many many more examples of s***ty teams in mid may staying s***ty the entire year.

I guarantee you that if we went through and identified teams that had solid rosters but were underperforming in May, the percentages would improve drastically. The reason teams that are 8 games back in May have such a low percentage of winning the division or the Wild Card is because most of those teams never had any chance to compete in the first place.

[Balta1701]

The '05 Astros too.

 

However, I think if we go back and looks at the playoff teams from the past ten seasons, I'd reckon 90% or more of them weren't playing this s***ty in May.

I'd be happy with a 1/10 shot, if I thought my team was way-under-performing (which they are).

[flavum]

I'd like to know the percentage of teams that are 6 games under or worse after 32 games, that actually get to over .500 sometime that same season.

[SoxAce]

There are plenty of PLAYOFF teams that were playing rotten in May. The 03' Marlins. The 07' Rockies. The 09' Rockies. The 06' Twins.

 

To be fair, the 06' Twins team was really underachieving at the time and of course had the MVP combo. The 09' Rockies fired their manager and hired Jim Tracy and all of a sudden that young team just went nuts and I think got in via the W.C. The 05' Indians team always had the offense (I think Victor, Hafner, Grady were all hitting poorly for a bit) and they had C.C., Carmona, Westbrook, etc.. who were decent, but turned it on later. And the 03' Marlins had Miggy, Hanley, Beckett, Burnett, etc.. and won the Wild Card to get in (the Wild Card is not comming out of our division)

 

I think guys like Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle, Quentin, Beckham will be fine but I'm not too optimistic on guys like Williams, Pena (though I like Tony Tone) in the pen.. possibly Jenks, Pierre, etc. And anytime you have Kotsay and Pierre in your lineup well... that is just bad. (we got very lucky that Jones "found it" so far or else we would be much worse) Vizquel also hits more than he should be hitting (love him in the field/late inning replacement, hate him hitting and Nix gets dicked around too much. AJ will be average, Teahen will be average, Garcia will be average, Alexei will be average, Rios will be solid and Konerko will have one of his better years it looks like. (especially in the power department) I certainly hope it isnt one of those "pitching finds it, but offense disappears or offense finds it, but pitching disappears" type thing this year. I would still rather trade guys like A.J., Pierre, (for anything) etc.. and let guys like Flowers, Hudson, etc.. come up and but still keep the core (Beckham, Quentin, Rios, Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Santos, etc..) and take a run at this thing with some youth and fire, but I don't think that will happen.

[iamshack]

To be fair, the 06' Twins team was really underachieving at the time and of course had the MVP combo. The 09' Rockies fired their manager and hired Jim Tracy and all of a sudden that young team just went nuts and I think got in via the W.C. The 05' Indians team always had the offense (I think Victor, Hafner, Grady were all hitting poorly for a bit) and they had C.C., Carmona, Westbrook, etc.. who were decent, but turned it on later. And the 03' Marlins had Miggy, Hanley, Beckett, Burnett, etc.. and won the Wild Card to get in (the Wild Card is not comming out of our division)

 

I think guys like Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle, Quentin, Beckham will be fine but I'm not too optimistic on guys like Williams, Pena (though I like Tony Tone) in the pen.. possibly Jenks, Pierre, etc. And anytime you have Kotsay and Pierre in your lineup well... that is just bad. (we got very lucky that Jones "found it" so far or else we would be much worse) Vizquel also hits more than he should be hitting (love him in the field/late inning replacement, hate him hitting and Nix gets dicked around too much. AJ will be average, Teahen will be average, Garcia will be average, Alexei will be average, Rios will be solid and Konerko will have one of his better years it looks like. (especially in the power department) I certainly hope it isnt one of those "pitching finds it, but offense disappears or offense finds it, but pitching disappears" type thing this year. I would still rather trade guys like A.J., Pierre, (for anything) etc.. and let guys like Flowers, Hudson, etc.. come up and but still keep the core (Beckham, Quentin, Rios, Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Santos, etc..) and take a run at this thing with some youth and fire, but I don't think that will happen.

No one is arguing that this team is going to turn around and suddenly make the playoffs without some major "event" occurring or some kind of change in the status quo. That is exactly what will be looked back upon should this team somehow make the playoffs. We'll be able to point to some event or series of events and say "that was the turning point."

[Greg Hibbard]

Out of the past 28 AL playoff teams going back through '02, two ('05 NYY and '06 Twins) had records as bad as 13-19 through 32 games and made the playoffs. Almost all the rest (except the 08 sox and 09 yanks - who were 15-17) were at or way over .500.

 

Is it really fair to bring up the NL teams? That league has been significantly weaker overall during the past 20 seasons, so a lot more movement seems possible throughout the season.

 

The '06 Twins went on a four game winning streak in games 33 through 36 to bring their record back to 17-19.

The '05 Yanks continued their winning streak (they had been 11-19) to ten games to bring their record back to 21-19.

 

This seems to suggest that even if we accept the extremely unlikely scenario that the Sox could make the playoffs as-is, it needs to happen RIGHT NOW or never. As in tonight.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Greg Hibbard

[whitesoxfan101]

Considering we're going to be out of the race in July regardless of what happens in this series, I don't think it's that earth shattering either way what happens in it.

[spiderman]

If you feel this team doesn't have enough as-is, do you think it be better to get swept by the twins, and start picking up the pieces for 2011 asap?

 

I realize there are those who say you always want your team to win.

I realize that many will probably think we aren't out of it yet.

This team is not bad, but certainly not very good.

 

In my opinion, as is the best this team can hope to do is about 85 wins. To do even that, they'll have to play 15 over the rest of the way. That's almost inconceivable with the start they've had.

 

It's becoming clear to me that the Twins seems like at least a 90 win team.

 

Why not just start retooling now?

 

I feel as though the worst case scenario is staying close enough to stand pat and waiting until the offseason to start addressing major problems.

 

I do think the team is out of it, and that there's a very good chance they will find themselves 10 games out tomorrow afternoon. Even if they split, or somehow win 2 straight against the Twins to put them within 6 games, they don't have an offense that can carry this offense, and their pitching staff, while I believe to be good, isn't a shut down rotation - only Danks has pitched well so far this year consistently.

 

I agree with you that 85 wins would be the BEST this team can do - and everything would have to go perfectly. More realistically, they are probably a 75 win team, and not going to be able to catch up to the Twins and Tigers.

 

Kenny Williams isn't going to give up this quickly though - I don't think he'll add on, and he'll eventually come to the conclusion that this team isn't going to be more than mediocre, but that time will not likely come until July.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just wanted to say good work@shack. These perpetual whiners really need to go out and find more constructive things to do with their time. I wouldn't even bother with a professional sports team in any way shape, or form, if they reduced me to a miserable, whiney, "SEASON'S OVER" every 2.5 seconds joke of a "fan."

[BigSqwert]

Just wanted to say good work@shack. These perpetual whiners really need to go out and find more constructive things to do with their time. I wouldn't even bother with a professional sports team in any way shape, or form, if they reduced me to a miserable, whiney, "SEASON'S OVER" every 2.5 seconds joke of a "fan."

Get over your high and mighty self.

[spiderman]

This is such an incredible line of BS. We are thirtysome games into the season. There are 130 games remaining!

 

No one is hoping they continue to fall further back, but to claim that this deficit cannot be made up over the course of nearly 5 months of baseball is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Making the assumption that the White Sox will play at such a clip to win about 90 games needed to win the division is a stretch, and while there is still 130 games left, I believe history (if somebody can provide the stats on this, that would be great) shows that teams that fall behind this much, this early typically don't catch up - adding to that, it's not like the White Sox were expected to win 90 games this year - a lot of the projections had them with about 80 wins - give or take 2 wins.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Get over your high and mighty self.

 

Didn't even mention specific names. Not that I had to. You're right at the top of the list. AND YOU KNOW IT! That's why you responded.

[spiderman]

Just wanted to say good work@shack. These perpetual whiners really need to go out and find more constructive things to do with their time. I wouldn't even bother with a professional sports team in any way shape, or form, if they reduced me to a miserable, whiney, "SEASON'S OVER" every 2.5 seconds joke of a "fan."

 

It's logic that suggests to me that the White Sox have probably buried themselves already.

[BigSqwert]

Didn't even mention specific names. Not that I had to. You're right at the top of the list. AND YOU KNOW IT! That's why you responded.

 

Unlike in other posts where you rip people when you know they're not online. Classy.

Edited May 11, 2010 by BigSqwert

[spiderman]

Out of the past 28 AL playoff teams going back through '02, two ('05 NYY and '06 Twins) had records as bad as 13-19 through 32 games and made the playoffs. Almost all the rest (except the 08 sox and 09 yanks - who were 15-17) were at or way over .500.

 

Is it really fair to bring up the NL teams? That league has been significantly weaker overall during the past 20 seasons, so a lot more movement seems possible throughout the season.

 

The '06 Twins went on a four game winning streak in games 33 through 36 to bring their record back to 17-19.

The '05 Yanks continued their winning streak (they had been 11-19) to ten games to bring their record back to 21-19.

 

This seems to suggest that even if we accept the extremely unlikely scenario that the Sox could make the playoffs as-is, it needs to happen RIGHT NOW or never. As in tonight.

 

Good stats to back up your argument. The White Sox have a major uphill battle to win the division. I'm not even sure they will finish .500 this season.

[spiderman]

Even if the team was much better, the Sox still have this hang up when it comes to beating the Twins.

 

Haven't they lost something like 15 of 18 games to them? I know my numbers are off a bit (they are off the top of my head), but they are close.

[whitesoxfan101]

Just wanted to say good work@shack. These perpetual whiners really need to go out and find more constructive things to do with their time. I wouldn't even bother with a professional sports team in any way shape, or form, if they reduced me to a miserable, whiney, "SEASON'S OVER" every 2.5 seconds joke of a "fan."

 

Huh? It's not whining to point out the very obvious fact that there is a more than 95 percent chance that the Sox aren't going to the playoffs. If you want to focus on the less than 5 percent, that's your right. I'd love for you to miraculously end up right and the team end up in the playoffs because it'd make things a lot more interesting, but that's just not realistic. I don't think anybody is miserable and whiney over this team either, or at least I know I personally am living a fine, happy life without them being relevant. It's more fun when they are, and I'll still watch the games even though they suck, but don't hate on people for being realistic.

Edited May 11, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[BigSqwert]

Huh? It's not whining to point out the very obvious fact that there is a more than 95 percent chance that the Sox aren't going to the playoffs. If you want to focus on the less than 5 percent, that's your right. I'd love for you to miraculously end up right and the team end up in the playoffs because it'd make things a lot more intersting, but that's just not realistic. I don't think anybody is miserable and whiney over this team either, or at least I know I personally am living a fine, happy life without them being relevant. It's more fun when they are, and I'll still watch the games even though they suck, but don't hate on people for being realistic.

For real. I'm saving a lot of money this summer by avoiding going to the games.

[spiderman]

For real. I'm saving a lot of money this summer by avoiding going to the games.

 

That's how I am looking at this as well. I can't justify spending good money on a team that isn't (or can't perform) perfomring at OR near an AL Central Champion.

[Chisoxfn]

Stupid comment. Sox sweep and they are 4.5 games back. That is great for the organization as a whole. Losing is rarely, if ever good, especially when you have a lot of key parts and to me aren't incredibly far away. The offense is one of the worse of all time at this point in the season and it won't stay that way (judging by career norms).

 

This team has some holes, but to act like there aren't very very good baseball players on the squad, we'd be lying. I'm not saying there is an easy fix, but this team isn't near as bad as the record indicates.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Unlike in other posts where you rip people when you know they're not online. Classy.

 

What is up with this "I rip people when they're not online" crap? Am I supposed to check the user list to make certain whatever person I'm "ripping" is on to give them the chance to respond? lol. If telling it like it is, is ripping somebody then so be it. You, along with a host of others (who I don't have to name because they, and everybody else, know who they are), have made this board unbearable at times. I have no problem whatsoever with constructive criticism. Hell, I don't even have a problem with saying so and so sucks. But there's a way to go about it. fathom used to get on my god damned nerves. But even he can be critical without looking like a jackass.

[NorthSideSox72]

Out of the past 28 AL playoff teams going back through '02, two ('05 NYY and '06 Twins) had records as bad as 13-19 through 32 games and made the playoffs. Almost all the rest (except the 08 sox and 09 yanks - who were 15-17) were at or way over .500.

 

Is it really fair to bring up the NL teams? That league has been significantly weaker overall during the past 20 seasons, so a lot more movement seems possible throughout the season.

 

The '06 Twins went on a four game winning streak in games 33 through 36 to bring their record back to 17-19.

The '05 Yanks continued their winning streak (they had been 11-19) to ten games to bring their record back to 21-19.

 

This seems to suggest that even if we accept the extremely unlikely scenario that the Sox could make the playoffs as-is, it needs to happen RIGHT NOW or never. As in tonight.

Interesting snapshot, but that's what it is - a one time window snapshot. If you went to, say, 40 games, you'll find some other playoff teams below the .500 line. What if the Sox have better records than them? You make the leap of assumption here that because there are only 2 at 32 games which are that bad, that there cannot be any at 40, or 50 games, which may be below where the Sox stand at that time.

 

The Sox are playing crappy baseball and are 8 games out - this is bad, but there is no such thing as an absolute line as to when its time to blow it up. It would be nice to think that, but history says otherwise.

 

Personally, I will echo what someone said earlier - memorial Day Weekend is a good evaluation point. If the Sox are 8+ games out (give or take) at that time, it might be time to cut the vets loose and rebuild in June. If they are say 4 games out and playing better, maybe time to add a bat and a LOOGY. If they are somehow miraculously in a near tie for the lead, then you leave them alone for a while. But its not a hard and fast thing.