White Sox vs Royals 5-16-10 @ 1:10 pm

[Balta1701]

Soxnet.net game wrapup.

[elrockinMT]

We need another bat or two or three. I don't see any way this present group will rebound. Seldom do you see any spark. I thought after Saturday's game we might, but the most determined person out there was Peavy and he may have been the spark yesterday. If so we need others to step up

[ThunderBolt]

There really is no point in having Kotsay or Vizquel on this team at this juncture. DFA them both, try to get Vizquel a job elsewhere, and bring up two of the younger guys.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[JohnCangelosi]

I REALLY believe that Thome is faster than Kotsay. Call me crazy but on that 22 hopper/slow developing double play ball to second he was still thrown out by 3 steps

[Dick Allen]

Agreed, call up Flowers, get Viciedo here, D2. See what we have, get some spects for PK,AJ,get rid of Vizquel,Kotsay can go. Bring up Lillibridge and give the kid a shot at being a backup.

If you don't like how Beckham is hitting and one of those guys that thinks he should be optioned to Charlotte, you are really going to be frustrated with the 3 you mentioned striking out all the time in the big leagues. Wait until they are ready.

[Balta1701]

There really is no pointing in having Kotsay or Vizquel on this team at this juncture. DFA them both, try to get Vizquel a job elsewhere, and bring up two of the younger guys.

Why exactly would you want to bring anyone up? Lillibridge is the only one who can play middle IF positions hitting worth a darn. You'd be crazy to bring up Viciedo right now, and even more insane to do so and put him in a part time playing role. Putting Vizquel at DH is a more intelligent move than that. CJ's not hitting at all right now. D2 isn't hitting either, FWIW.

 

May as well let those guys hit in the minors. No harm happens to you if you hold onto the players in the big leagues, maybe you even find someone willing to trade you a Brian Anderson style washout later in the year.

[kitekrazy]

Kotsay at 1.5 M playing DH 90% of the time

 

Thome at 1.5 M playing DH 100%

 

And I think Thome is FASTER than Kotsay!!

 

Who would you rather have?!?!?!?!? DFA his ass this organization is a joke

 

Neither!!!!

 

[Balta1701]

If you don't like how Beckham is hitting and one of those guys that thinks he should be optioned to Charlotte, you are really going to be frustrated with the 3 you mentioned striking out all the time in the big leagues. Wait until they are ready.

Honestly, given that AJ's about to be a 10/5 guy and Flowers is our best hitter at AAA...I wouldn't be angry if we could find a taker for AJ in early June and made that switch.

[Balta1701]

Neither!!!!

Yeah, Thome's .864 OPS would make this lineup all stinky.

[caulfield12]

Rongey getting hammered about Pierre.

 

How is it NOT KW's fault for expecting Juan Pierre at his age to be a .300 hitter in the AL, at USCF?

 

Look at the decline in the 30's of aging speed players, try that one.

 

Did anyone really expect Juan Pierre to hit .300 with the White Sox this year?

 

I know 90% of us didn't. There just wasn't any reason at all, except ONE hot 4-6 week streak with the Dodgers last season. But looking at his career trajectory over 2006-07-08-09, it was insane to expect JP to be anything close to an AVERAGE MLB LFer in terms of offensive production.

 

We just got so caught up with finding a traditional leadoff hitter we forgot what's most important, OBP, OBP, OBP!!!!

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

Why exactly would you want to bring anyone up? Lillibridge is the only one who can play middle IF positions hitting worth a darn. You'd be crazy to bring up Viciedo right now, and even more insane to do so and put him in a part time playing role. Putting Vizquel at DH is a more intelligent move than that. CJ's not hitting at all right now. D2 isn't hitting either, FWIW.

 

May as well let those guys hit in the minors. No harm happens to you if you hold onto the players in the big leagues, maybe you even find someone willing to trade you a Brian Anderson style washout later in the year.

I never said to bring up Viciedo or Danks. But to argue that there's any reason to hold onto Kotsay and Vizquel when you have younger guys like Flowers or Lillibridge who could do more with their ab's, is a joke. I don't even like Lillibridge, i'd give the play to Nix, but there's is nothing at this point that Kotsay and Vizquel can offer this ballclub outside of veteran status, that these kids cannot.

[caulfield12]

Why exactly would you want to bring anyone up? Lillibridge is the only one who can play middle IF positions hitting worth a darn. You'd be crazy to bring up Viciedo right now, and even more insane to do so and put him in a part time playing role. Putting Vizquel at DH is a more intelligent move than that. CJ's not hitting at all right now. D2 isn't hitting either, FWIW.

 

May as well let those guys hit in the minors. No harm happens to you if you hold onto the players in the big leagues, maybe you even find someone willing to trade you a Brian Anderson style washout later in the year.

 

Or Matty Thornton. Or Alex Gordon. Or Gavin Floyd (although it would be nice when he decides to start pitching like a top-line starter again).

Edited May 16, 2010 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I never said to bring up Viciedo or Danks. But to argue that there's any reason to hold onto Kotsay and Vizquel when you have younger guys like Flowers or Lillibridge who could do more with their ab's, is a joke. I don't even like Lillibridge, i'd give the play to Nix, but there's is nothing at this point that Kotsay and Vizquel can offer this ballclub outside of veteran status, that these kids cannot.

You'd actually bring up Flowers and expect him to be a part time DH and backup 1b? Oh, and to platoon with our other RH hitting DH?

 

Why am I bothering talking to you?

[caulfield12]

I never said to bring up Viciedo or Danks. But to argue that there's any reason to hold onto Kotsay and Vizquel when you have younger guys like Flowers or Lillibridge who could do more with their ab's, is a joke. I don't even like Lillibridge, i'd give the play to Nix, but there's is nothing at this point that Kotsay and Vizquel can offer this ballclub outside of veteran status, that these kids cannot.

 

The trade return from Howry, Baldwin, Durham, Alomar and Lofton...I think we got one "useable" asset. We did get the likes of Felix Diaz, Onan Masaoka, Berry/Barry, Emenencio Pacheco, Jon Fireball Adkins, etc.

 

That was Frank Francisco, who we packaged later for Everett.

[Balta1701]

The trade return from Howry, Baldwin, Durham, Alomar and Lofton...I think we got one "useable" asset. We did get the likes of Felix Diaz, Onan Masaoka, Berry/Barry, Emenencio Pacheco, Jon Fireball Adkins, etc.

 

That was Frank Francisco, who we packaged later for Everett.

And on the other hand...the Indians turned Casey Blake into Carlos Santana.

 

Just because one sell-off trade didn't net people who worked out doesn't mean others won't.

[Dick Allen]

Honestly, given that AJ's about to be a 10/5 guy and Flowers is our best hitter at AAA...I wouldn't be angry if we could find a taker for AJ in early June and made that switch.

Keep AJ around. Its not like the Sox have a 20 year committment to him, just the rest of the season. When Flowers starts consistently raking in AAA and if the Sox are out of it, call him up then and let him play.

 

There really should be no panic about this 5/10 stuff. People are going to realize AJ was a lot better than they thought when he is gone.

[caulfield12]

You'd actually bring up Flowers and expect him to be a part time DH and backup 1b? Oh, and to platoon with our other RH hitting DH?

 

Why am I bothering talking to you?

 

Obviously T-Flow won't do on the job training at the major league level at 1B.

 

Want to see Alexei Ramirez and Mark Teahen put up 30 and 40+ ERRORS?

 

Only way Flowers (at the major league level) is playing is almost everyday, and that's with an AJ trade. You won't see AJ sharing time with Flowers. Period.

Edited May 16, 2010 by caulfield12

[dmbjeff]

If you don't like how Beckham is hitting and one of those guys that thinks he should be optioned to Charlotte, you are really going to be frustrated with the 3 you mentioned striking out all the time in the big leagues. Wait until they are ready.

 

I believe Beckham should figure out his hitting woes up here. He is a premier talent who is stuggling, I think he will come around real soon actually.

[Balta1701]

Keep AJ around. Its not like the Sox have a 20 year committment to him, just the rest of the season. When Flowers starts consistently raking in AAA and if the Sox are out of it, call him up then and let him play.

 

There really should be no panic about this 5/10 stuff. People are going to realize AJ was a lot better than they thought when he is gone.

Bah, if you could trade him with minimal return, you save $3 million or so, and Flowers is putting up a >.900 OPS at AAA.

 

You're right though, we'd miss AJ's work behind the plate. Just be nice if he was hitting >.200.

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

Honestly, given that AJ's about to be a 10/5 guy and Flowers is our best hitter at AAA...I wouldn't be angry if we could find a taker for AJ in early June and made that switch.

we should have just traded AJ before the season started and seen what we could have gotten prospect wise... that's what i wanted them to do. now his value is probably lower than it was before. i have no doubt flowers can match AJ's production offensively, and i doubt he can be much worse behind the plate.

[caulfield12]

Keep AJ around. Its not like the Sox have a 20 year committment to him, just the rest of the season. When Flowers starts consistently raking in AAA and if the Sox are out of it, call him up then and let him play.

 

There really should be no panic about this 5/10 stuff. People are going to realize AJ was a lot better than they thought when he is gone.

 

Still, we can't be paying declining veteran players $5-6-7 million dollars that are way below average defenders and below league average offensively.

 

The future is Flowers, whether he fails or not, the only way this offense has any upside is if Flowers is an 800-900 OPS type of player to go along with the defensive and game-calling limitations he'll obviously be presenting (think Miguel Olivo without the arm).

Edited May 16, 2010 by caulfield12

[qwerty]

Yeah, Thome's .864 OPS would make this lineup all stinky.

 

?

 

It's stands at .905 today. Was .907 yesterday.

[fathom]

How would we miss AJ behind the plate? He's abysmal at blocking pitches, we all know he can't throw, and it's not like our starting pitchers are shining with his expertise pitch calling.

[Balta1701]

?

 

It's stands at .905 today. Was .907 yesterday.

Bah, I looked at the wrong line, I looked at his #'s for last year. My bad.

[Dick Allen]

Bah, if you could trade him with minimal return, you save $3 million or so, and Flowers is putting up a >.900 OPS at AAA.

 

You're right though, we'd miss AJ's work behind the plate. Just be nice if he was hitting >.200.

Flowers has a .901 OPS but he also has 39 k in 101 AB and is only hitting .257. The one knock on him was he is going to k a ton in MLB. Right now it may be half his AB. There is no need to rush him unless you enjoy Josh Fields-like offense. And the savings, I just don't think they use that for anything to be honest.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Dick Allen