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[Leonard Zelig]

Seems like half of this board wants Ozzie fired, but I haven't heard anybody suggest who should replace him.

[ThunderBolt]

Seems like half of this board wants Ozzie fired, but I haven't heard anybody suggest who should replace him.

We've had tons of thread about replacing Ozzie. I want Davey Johnson.

[Soxbadger]

I would hope that as GM Kenny has a list of potential head coaching replacements.

 

Even if he has no intention of firing Ozzie, he still could quit, etc. You have to have a plan b.

 

If change is really what the team needs, then make changes. Dont do a half ass job of getting rid of people that wont make a difference, so that next year we are in the same position.

[greg775]

Davey Johnson?

My god. Why? Just to get Ozzie out of here?

What does he bring to the table better than Ozzie? You people that want Ozzie out slay me. You think Davey Johnson knows baseball better than Ozzie?

I don't get how a rational White Sox fan would want the one guy who brought this city a title out of town in five years.

He's only going to get better and better.

How bout DEMANDING better talent for this team and trading for and signing better free agents. Adding Omar, Teahen, some hack relievers, Pierre and getting rid of Thome, Dye, Pods does NOT constitute a winning offseason. My god. Adding Jones as your big gun is not a helluva offseason even though he's hit a batch of home runs in April. It's easy to say "fire the manager."

Take away his pseudo GM duties; but let Oz manage.

This team sucks; the manager is fine.

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[Leonard Zelig]

We've had tons of thread about replacing Ozzie. I want Davey Johnson.

Why hasn't he been in a major league dugout in 10 years?

 

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

Basically because he knows baseball, has lived baseball.

Yeah, the morons on baseball tonight "have lived baseball". Joe Morgan "has lived baseball". Completely irrelevant... Ozzie really isn't very intelligent baseball wise, sorry to say.

He knows what he's doing. Like all managers he wins when he has good players; he loses when he has crap.

That's why he DH's Omar Vizquel? That's why he insisted on the rotating DH with garbage players? that's why he can't handle a bullpen for his life?

He loves the White Sox; exudes his love for the White Sox.

who cares....

He makes the right moves. He, like all managers, can't help it if the players don't come through in executing his moves.

again, no he doesn't... have you seen who he DH's, how he constructs his lineups, how he handles the bullpen? I feel like a broken record here.

He like anybody else has opinions on the make up of his roster. Most managers don't have much of a say. He was given too much of a say by KW. That should change. He should take what he's given and manage it.

Sure, KW needs blame for this, but Ozzie does too. Ozzie told KW that he legitimately thought this roster set up would work, and he was prepared to take the blame for it. He needs to take the blame.

Everytime I read his quotes they make perfect sense.

okay...

He's going to be a manager for the next 20 years and get better and better. He might as well be doing that with the Sox, a perfect fit for him.

this is just a blind assumption that you don't know... I could say the same about Vinny Del Negro and the bulls.

Are those enough reasons?

Not to sound like a cocky arrogant bastard, but most of those reasons were garbage. I'm sorry.

 

Is he perfect? No. I wish he'd identify his best players on this horses*** roster and go with them almost every single day.

This rest stuff is overrated especially early in the year. I can understand why he wouldn't want to watch some of these stiffs play every day, but he was doing the "rest" thing a lot in past seasons, too with the Sunday lineups.

But I love Ozzie and think he knows his s***. He's young and he's good.

Some of you who want change probably also want the second team QB a lot and unless the second-team QB is good, that never works out either.

 

Sox everyday lineup sucks; Sox suck. Starting pitchers should turn it around. On paper, not a bad rotation.

Ozzie is good.

 

He's gotten a lot of on the job experience here in his first managing job. Why ship him somewhere else to bring in some clown like Buddy Bell or some retread or even some manager from our minor league system? Dumb. Let Ozzie reign.

dude, all you have said to justify it is "ozzie is good, he will get better" basically. He is terrible at making lineups, makes terrible decisions on who plays where in the field, handles bullpens poorly, goes on his little tirades (which some people say is beneficial because it takes attention away from the players, but i think it just brings more attention to the white sox in general), seemly has vendettas with certain players (nix, swisher, anderson), and is stubborn as hell. I'm tired of Ozzie and I really think the sox need to make a change.

[ThunderBolt]

Davey Johnson actually knows how to optimize lineups, and work matchups. He's an ideal manager for a team in our ball park. He's a hell of a lot more rational and logical when it comes to baseball moves then Ozzie, and the only thing they have in common is their fire.

[ThunderBolt]

Why hasn't he been in a major league dugout in 10 years?

I believe his daughter died in 2005, that coupled with his tough breakup with Baltimore took a lot out of him. He's managed internationally since then and works with the Nationals front office.

[greg775]

Zeke obviously you think we have good players; I don't.

You can shuffle the deck all you want. The lineup sucks no matter who is batting where, no matter if Omar plays or sits.

I disagree with everything you said; you disagree with everything I say.

I'm telling you. When your team loses, you can second guess every Oz decision or any manager's decision.

Jerry Reinsdorf is a logical man. He realizes these things and you Oz haters are stuck with him.

Oz rocks!

 

Now we know why managers/coaches get paid the big bucks. When they've been around a while, the masses turn on them. Kudos to Bobby Cox, Gregg Popovich, Jerry Sloan, LaRussa and guys like that who shut their fans up, survived the "fire the manager" cliche when things got bad and stuck around a long time.

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[Soxbadger]

How bout DEMANDING better talent for this team and trading for and signing better free agents. Adding Omar, Teahen, some hack relievers, Pierre and getting rid of Thome, Dye, Pods does NOT constitute a winning offseason.

 

They brought in the players that Ozzie wanted. They constructed the team how Ozzie wanted.

 

They built the car exactly how he wanted it to be, and now he cant drive with it?

 

That is a problem. Im not saying that firing anyone is the best strategy, I dont think I would fire Ozzie or Walker at this point (I think its still to early). That being said, if you are saying that change is necessary, then we have to change the manager. It is the only thing that will make a difference.

 

I like Ozzie, and Im far more loyal than most fans. He just tests my patience.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Soxbadger

[Leonard Zelig]

I believe his daughter died in 2005, that coupled with his tough breakup with Baltimore took a lot out of him. He's managed internationally since then and works with the Nationals front office.

 

So you think he would come and manage these White Sox?

[chw42]

Zeke obviously you think we have good players; I don't.

You can shuffle the deck all you want. The lineup sucks no matter who is batting where, no matter if Omar plays or sits.

I disagree with everything you said; you disagree with everything I say.

I'm telling you. When your team loses, you can second guess every Oz decision or any manager's decision.

Jerry Reinsdorf is a logical man. He realizes these things and you Oz haters are stuck with him.

Oz rocks!

 

Now we know why managers/coaches get paid the big bucks. When they've been around a while, the masses turn on them. Kudos to Bobby Cox, Gregg Popovich, Jerry Sloan, LaRussa and guys like that who shut their fans up, survived the "fire the manager" cliche when things got bad and stuck around a long time.

 

I don't think he does. I don't either.

 

But the thing is, who wanted Juan Pierre and Mark Kotsay? Who needed Randy Williams on this team so he can play his lefty/righty matchups? It's Ozzie, that's who.

 

Now we can all blame KW for listening to Ozzie, but the thing is, he's the one who wanted a team like this and it hasn't worked out.

[greg775]

Nobody reads anybody's posts carefully. I said take away Oz's pseudo GM role. If you think he should be fired for wanting stiffs like Kotsay and Pierre and Omar and getting his wish, by all means fire him.

Definitely listen to Oz no more if you are the personnel decision man, but leave him as manager.

Lots of coaches/managers also wanna be GM. It's not a good idea.

 

If Jerry, etc., think Oz's role in making the roster is enough to fire him, go for it. But I'm saying he's a good enough manager.

 

[ThunderBolt]

So you think he would come and manage these White Sox?

I think he might. It's a large enough market and a good enough core to convince him that three years in Chicago might be a decent enough investment of his time.

[chw42]

Nobody reads anybody's posts carefully. I said take away Oz's pseudo GM role. If you think he should be fired for wanting stiffs like Kotsay and Pierre and Omar and getting his wish, by all means fire him.

Definitely listen to Oz no more if you are the personnel decision man, but leave him as manager.

Lots of coaches/managers also wanna be GM. It's not a good idea.

 

If Jerry, etc., think Oz's role in making the roster is enough to fire him, go for it. But I'm saying he's a good enough manager.

 

Ozzie may be great at dealing with the media, keeping some players happy, etc, but he's too damn stubborn to last in this business. The game is at the point where it is moving forward. And Ozzie's still stuck back in in the 1980s.

 

So whatever good he's done off the field is at best being canceled for what he's done on the field.

[greg775]

Stuck in the 80s? We won it all in 05 with him at the helm. Oh I forgot, he did nothing to help us win the WS. Anybody could have led that team to the title. Tell that to every other Chicago baseball team trying to win a title in oh, one century.

You must mean stuck in the 04s.

[chw42]

Stuck in the 80s? We won it all in 05 with him at the helm. Oh I forgot, he did nothing to help us win the WS. Anybody could have led that team to the title. Tell that to every other Chicago baseball team trying to win a title in oh, one century.

You must mean stuck in the 04s.

 

Give just about any other decent manager that team again with all those guys who had career years and the best pitching staff in all of the AL with a great defense and they'll do just as well as Ozzie did.

 

Ozzie was simply in the right situation. He does deserve credit for that World Series, don't get me wrong. But with the players he had and the luck he ran into with so many career years, it's hard to give him credit as being a good manager.

 

And he still is living in the 80s. Anybody who wants to DH Omar Vizquel or Juan Pierre has no idea what the hell he's doing. It might not have mattered in 1982 who the hell your DH was, but it does now.

Edited May 18, 2010 by chw42

[Soxbadger]

Greg,

 

Im not specifically talking about what youve said. Im talking about the people who want change, but only are limiting it to Walker. I think if change is what the Sox need, they need to make real changes.

 

Now I personally think they should be a little more patient and probably evaluate things in June.

[southsideirish71]

Stuck in the 80s? We won it all in 05 with him at the helm. Oh I forgot, he did nothing to help us win the WS. Anybody could have led that team to the title. Tell that to every other Chicago baseball team trying to win a title in oh, one century.

You must mean stuck in the 04s.

 

He won in 05 on outstanding starting pitching, and a bullpen playing out of their mind. The offense was terrible for most of the season, and luckily got hot for 2 weeks at the right time. He didn't get to play his ozzie ball for most of 05 because Scotty Pods had a bad groin. The 80s comment is more to point out his fascination with playing slap and tickle in the modern American League. We play in a home run park.

[Leonard Zelig]

He won in 05 on outstanding starting pitching, and a bullpen playing out of their mind. The offense was terrible for most of the season, and luckily got hot for 2 weeks at the right time. He didn't get to play his ozzie ball for most of 05 because Scotty Pods had a bad groin. The 80s comment is more to point out his fascination with playing slap and tickle in the modern American League. We play in a home run park.

 

He also had to go through 3 closers, the return and then departure of Frank, and a nearly disastrous collapse. He doesn't deserve all the credit, but does does deserve some.

[chw42]

He also had to go through 3 closers, the return and then departure of Frank, and a nearly disastrous collapse. He doesn't deserve all the credit, but does does deserve some.

 

And he was fortunate enough to have two of those closers be really, really good.

 

As many bad things Ozzie dealt with that year, he had far more good things happen to him.

 

 

[WCSox]

Give just about any other decent manager that team again with all those guys who had career years and the best pitching staff in all of the AL with a great defense and they'll do just as well as Ozzie did.

 

Ozzie was simply in the right situation. He does deserve credit for that World Series, don't get me wrong. But with the players he had and the luck he ran into with so many career years, it's hard to give him credit as being a good manager.

 

A large part (and some would say the most important part) of a manager's job is motivation. Ozzie is a high-energy guy who got his players to buy into his system and play their asses off for him for a few years. He lost them last year, but what he did worked for a good part of four seasons.

 

Im not specifically talking about what youve said. Im talking about the people who want change, but only are limiting it to Walker. I think if change is what the Sox need, they need to make real changes.

 

I'd give Coop a raise and beg him to stay, but the manager who can't motivate his players or fill out a lineup card, and the hitting coach whose teams have failed to hit effectively in 2 of the past 3 seasons, aren't bringing much to the table.

Edited May 18, 2010 by WCSox

[greg775]

Give just about any other decent manager that team again with all those guys who had career years and the best pitching staff in all of the AL with a great defense and they'll do just as well as Ozzie did.

 

You know what I say to that ... bull s***!

Then if it is so easy why haven't any other chicago teams won s*** in the past 100 years???

You people who think anybody could have led us to that incredible postseason run are just plain nuts. If it was so f***ing easy then why did none of our other playoff teams reach the WS? Or the Cubs playoff teams with incredible Lou?

Ozzie is a White Sox Hall of Famer. Deal with it.

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[SoxFan562004]

I definitely give Ozzie his share of credit for '05, I think winning the WS is an extremely difficult thing to do and every part has to be firing on all cylinders, even with their super team and super payroll last year I think the NYY might have lost if they didn't get all the extra days off and were able to shorten their rotation.

 

with that said, because he won in '05 doesn't mean he continues to get the benefit of the doubt for the rest of his career. Rosters change as do managers styles and personalities. It should be evaluated on basically a year-to-year basis IMO.

 

Also, even though this team has flat out fell on their face this year I'm not sure what good blowing it up would do. Peavy has looked solid, Rios is playing well and outside of last year has a track record, Beckham and Q still have promise and to top it off I don't think the Sox would get a ton for the veterans as rent a players.

[Leonard Zelig]

And he was fortunate enough to have two of those closers be really, really good.

 

As many bad things Ozzie dealt with that year, he had far more good things happen to him.

 

Are you saying that when good things happen a manager should not get credit, but when bad things happen he deserves the blame?