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[greg775]

Are you saying that when good things happen a manager should not get credit, but when bad things happen he deserves the blame?

 

I don't know if he's saying that, but that's the feeling of most fans.

Fire the manager; play the second team quarterback; pull that goalie!

I personally decide whether I think a manager/coach knows his s*** and if I think he knows his s*** I stick with him in good times and bad no matter the shift in personnel. I already said Oz should have NO ROLE in future personnel decisions, just manage the guys the GM gives him.

It usually is a disaster when coaches double as GMs.

Oz knows his s***; Oz is a White Sox Hall of Famer. Deal with it.

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

I don't know if he's saying that, but that's the feeling of most fans.

Fire the manager; play the second team quarterback; pull that goalie!

I personally decide whether I think a manager/coach knows his s*** and if I think he knows his s*** I stick with him in good times and bad no matter the shift in personnel. I already said Oz should have NO ROLE in future personnel decisions, just manage the guys the GM gives him.

It usually is a disaster when coaches double as GMs.

Oz knows his s***; Oz is a future White Sox Hall of Famer. Deal with it.

 

But when he's given players like Wise, Omar, Mackowiak, etc he over-uses them and plays them out of position. And to top it off he has them bat in ridiculous spots in the lineup like Wise leading off.

[greg775]

That goes back to personnel. If he had a legitimate leadoff option, it wouldn't have been Wise for him to go with Wise and he knew that as well.

[BigSqwert]

That goes back to personnel. If he had a legitimate leadoff option, it wouldn't have been Wise for him to go with Wise and he knew that as well.

But he over-uses guys that are the 24th and 25th man on the roster. Just look at Randy Williams as a perfect example. Through the entire month of April, Williams led the bullpen in appearances even though he's by far our worst reliever. No other manager in Ozzie's shoes would do that IMO.

 

EDIT: To this date, Williams has the 2nd most appearances. Mind boggling.

Edited May 18, 2010 by BigSqwert

[Soxbadger]

I personally decide whether I think a manager/coach knows his s*** and if I think he knows his s*** I stick with him in good times and bad no

 

And I feel the same way. Ive stuck behind Ozzie when all common sense went against it, because he had came through in 2005. But eventually I had to listen to my head over my heart.

 

I dont think you can find many posts by me where I advocate the firing of any coach of the Sox, or where I turn my back on any player.

 

But some times loyalty becomes stupidity. And I personal dont think Ozzie knows his s*** anymore.

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

That goes back to personnel. If he had a legitimate leadoff option, it wouldn't have been Wise for him to go with Wise and he knew that as well.

Greg, you act like we need to treat ozzie like a freaking special ed student. It's Kenny's fault that he gives Ozzie bench players and he over plays the hell out of them? Come on. Swisher was a better leadoff option than Wise the whole year, despite having an off year. Ozzie still chose Wise over him.

[Soxbadger]

Wasnt Pods on the White Sox last year?

[chw42]

You know what I say to that ... bull s***!

Then if it is so easy why haven't any other chicago teams won s*** in the past 100 years???

You people who think anybody could have led us to that incredible postseason run are just plain nuts. If it was so f***ing easy then why did none of our other playoff teams reach the WS? Or the Cubs playoff teams with incredible Lou?

Ozzie is a White Sox Hall of Famer. Deal with it.

 

When was the last time any of the past managers had a team that pitched THAT well with a bullpen that was nearly that untouchable?

[Balta1701]

Wasnt Pods on the White Sox last year?

Not to start the year.

[SoxAce]

Greg, you act like we need to treat ozzie like a freaking special ed student. It's Kenny's fault that he gives Ozzie bench players and he over plays the hell out of them? Come on. Swisher was a better leadoff option than Wise the whole year, despite having an off year. Ozzie still chose Wise over him.

 

Not to mention he called Swisher a "s*** player" even though he still sported a .351 OBP at the leadoff spot for him despite hitting like .180. Swish was pretty damn bad for us, but he wasn't complete "s***."

 

I am one of the few here that felt Swisher got a bad rap here though.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SoxAce

[chw42]

Are you saying that when good things happen a manager should not get credit, but when bad things happen he deserves the blame?

 

No, but in the case of Ozzie, he just got really lucky with a couple of guys in the bullpen and pretty much the entire starting rotation. Everybody on that pitching staff pretty much threw beyond their ability.

 

Luck is something that Ozzie had in 05. He didn't create the luck, so why should he get credit for it?

[Soxbadger]

Yeah the implication was that Ozzie had to use Wise as lead off the whole year, which I just didnt think was true.

[southsideirish71]

That goes back to personnel. If he had a legitimate leadoff option, it wouldn't have been Wise for him to go with Wise and he knew that as well.

 

What about in 2008 when he wanted to start Owens in LF and have Quentin on the bench out of ST. Only an injury stopped that. Ozzie likes speedy slappy guys. Sometimes thats not always the best option.

Edited May 18, 2010 by southsideirish71

[chw42]

Some of us really need to stop living in 2005 and going back to 2005 as to why Ozzie should keep his job.

 

The problem is what is happening now and right now, Ozzie has hurt the team both on and off the field.

 

 

[chw42]

What about in 2008 when he wanted to start Owens in LF and have Quentin on the bench out of ST. Only an injury stopped that. Ozzie likes speedy slappy guys. Sometimes thats not always the best option.

 

It's usually the worst option. Unless we're talking about Ichiro, speedy slap hitters don't have much of a place in MLB.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2010 by chw42

[Leonard Zelig]

No, but in the case of Ozzie, he just got really lucky with a couple of guys in the bullpen and pretty much the entire starting rotation. Everybody on that pitching staff pretty much threw beyond their ability.

 

Luck is something that Ozzie had in 05. He didn't create the luck, so why should he get credit for it?

 

Well, he is sure taking a lot of the blame for the bad luck so far this year. It should go both ways.

[chw42]

Not to mention he called Swisher a "s*** player" even though he still sported a .351 OBP at the leadoff spot for him despite hitting like .180. Swish was pretty damn bad for us, but he wasn't complete "s***."

 

I am one of the few here that felt Swisher got a bad rap here though.

 

Swish definitely had his worst year as a ML player here.

 

But even then, he wasn't below replacement kind of bad or anything.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Swish definitely had his worst year as a ML player here.

 

But even then, he wasn't below replacement kind of bad or anything.

Sadly, Wise really did outplay him.

[chw42]

Sadly, Wise really did outplay him.

 

I don't know about outplayed, but Swisher and Wise pretty much played at a similar level.

 

[greg775]

When was the last time any of the past managers had a team that pitched THAT well with a bullpen that was nearly that untouchable?

 

In 100 years I think plenty of managers had teams that on paper could have won it all. And didn't.

Hopefully I can stifle myself on posting anymore about Ozzie. I can't win. For decades when teams lose a game it's been "fire the manager" and my stance is one that is not winnable. I'll lose this battle everytime by sheer numbers that follow the "fire the manager" mantra.

 

So I hope many of you get your wish and Ozzie is fired. It's obvious many of you have grown very tired of him. I hope you get your way and hope you enjoy Buddy Bell, because I'd bet he'll be the guy unless it's Joey Cora. In that case, I hope you enjoy Joey. The team will probably get hot after the firing and win eight of 10 or something. That usually happens after a firing, then things settle back to where the team plays to its talent.

 

The only way a manager/coach can shut up criticis is "just win baby." We're not winning, so my stance is unwinnable. I hope I can force myself to stop posting defense of Ozzie cause I can't win.

And let me beat the next person who will respond to this by saying, 'We can only hope (that greg stops posting)."

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

In 100 years I think plenty of managers had teams that on paper could have won it all. And didn't.

Hopefully I can stifle myself on posting anymore about Ozzie. I can't win. For decades when teams lose a game it's been "fire the manager" and my stance is one that is not winnable. I'll lose this battle everytime by sheer numbers that follow the "fire the manager" mantra.

 

So I hope many of you get your wish and Ozzie is fired. It's obvious many of you have grown very tired of him. I hope you get your way and hope you enjoy Buddy Bell, because I'd bet he'll be the guy unless it's Joey Cora. In that case, I hope you enjoy Joey. The team will probably get hot after the firing and win eight of 10 or something. That usually happens after a firing, then things settle back to where the team plays to its talent.

 

The only way a manager/coach can shut up criticis is "just win baby." We're not winning, so my stance is unwinnable. I hope I can force myself to stop posting defense of Ozzie cause I can't win.

And let me beat the next person who will respond to this by saying, 'We can only hope (that greg stops posting)."

I enjoy reading your posts. Please continue.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I enjoy reading your posts. Please continue.

 

He's one of my favorite posters. He sticks to his beliefs no matter how unpopular (and this is just about all the time) they might be.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Jordan4life

[BigSqwert]

He's one of my favorite posters. He sticks to his beliefs no matter how many people disagree with him.

He's stubborn like Ozzie.

[greg775]

I didn't say I was leaving. I'm going to try to stop talking about how I like Ozzie and why I like Ozzie.

[chw42]

In 100 years I think plenty of managers had teams that on paper could have won it all. And didn't.

Hopefully I can stifle myself on posting anymore about Ozzie. I can't win. For decades when teams lose a game it's been "fire the manager" and my stance is one that is not winnable. I'll lose this battle everytime by sheer numbers that follow the "fire the manager" mantra.

 

So I hope many of you get your wish and Ozzie is fired. It's obvious many of you have grown very tired of him. I hope you get your way and hope you enjoy Buddy Bell, because I'd bet he'll be the guy unless it's Joey Cora. In that case, I hope you enjoy Joey. The team will probably get hot after the firing and win eight of 10 or something. That usually happens after a firing, then things settle back to where the team plays to its talent.

 

The only way a manager/coach can shut up criticis is "just win baby." We're not winning, so my stance is unwinnable. I hope I can force myself to stop posting defense of Ozzie cause I can't win.

And let me beat the next person who will respond to this by saying, 'We can only hope (that greg stops posting)."

 

Ozzie's gotten to the point where he's just full of himself and he, like you, is riding it all on 2005.

 

Unfortunately, something that happened 5 years ago can't give you a job for life, especially in a business like baseball.

 

If Ozzie gets fired and the front office brings a piece of crap manager in, then you might as well have Ozzie still here.

 

The point is not just to change the scenery, but it's to change the philosophy of the guy who runs this team on the field and in the club house.

 

We need a guy who does things with this head more often, not his gut. We can't have somebody being stubborn as hell with his bullpen. We can't have somebody who DHs players who can't hit, but can play defense.

 

Ozzie's type of managerial style might have worked in the 70s or 80s. When managers just like him were everywhere. But today, when other teams and their managers know what they're doing on the field and your own manager doesn't, that's a huge disadvantage to you.

 

Plus, people say Ozzie keeps the team loose and treats his players well. Does he treat the players who are in his doghouse well? That's another thing with Ozzie. He holds grudges. What did Jayson Nix do to only have 20 at bats so far in the season when Omar Vizquel is hitting like a 50 year old in a 16 inch softball league? Why the hell is Tony Pena the mop up man when Scott Linebrink and Randy Williams are both worse than him?

 

Everybody has problems with the manager sometime or later, but it seems like I'll have problems with a decision Ozzie makes every other game, if not every game. And I'm not screaming at the TV after the fact either. You can see disaster striking from 5 miles away if he brings in Randy Williams just to face one left handed hitter with the bases loaded or DHs Omar Vizquel and then hits him second.

 

He just does far too many things that don't make sense and he puts his players in a position to fail. That's his fault and he should eventually pay the price for being the way he is.