Unload...

[southsider2k5]

If Flowers is the everyday starter, would you still want Lucy backing him up?

 

I'd want at least one vet catcher on the roster.

[caulfield12]

It all comes down to trading Rios, Danks, Buehrle or Peavy if we really want to create significant payroll space.

 

Quentin is another big enigmatic mystery that we have to decide upon before 2011 starts. He's certainly not hitting like a player worthy of $4-6 million in payroll space, as he's basically a glorified DH. But, if you compare him to Teahen, I would gamble 100 times in a row that Quentin still has the upside to get things together offensively over TMT.

 

Linebrink, Pierre and Teahen, stupid deals like those three hem KW in, especially the last two (as I can understand the Liney and Dotel deals, just not the length of contract for him)...

 

I think $75-95 million is a more legitimate range, with the actual number coming in closer to $90-95 than $75 million. ($65 million was the 2005 WS championship team's payroll number).

Edited May 17, 2010 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

You do not trade guys like Floyd, Danks etc.. unless you were really talking firesale. That is why I keep suggesting trading some of these veterans (A.J., Pierre, Konerko, etc..), while bringing up some of the younger guys (Flowers, Hudson, etc..) and still trying to make a run at this thing/turn it around with the core guys (Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Beckham, Rios & Buehrle [though I'm torn on them] Santos, etc..).

Edited May 17, 2010 by SoxAce

[ThunderBolt]

This isn't a firesale, it's more in line with the on-the-fly rebuild philosophy that KW has utilized the last 5 years. We should not be looking to trade core guys like Danks, Floyd, Or Rios unless they're pieces to a bigger, better puzzle.

[caulfield12]

I'll agree trading Floyd at low value now is borderline insane.

 

Doesn't make any sense at all...we have to wait for him to get straightened out, just keep sending him out there every 5 days.

 

Wally Backham?

[RockRaines]

Well, Buerhle's career numbers are fine because he has pitched in this park and in this league. You have to ignore soem of Peavy's numbers because he pitched in a s***ty league in a huge ballpark. And Buerhle has been bad now since around his perfect game next year. Sometimes players just get older and they get worse. It happens to most.

So your answer is yes?

 

Just commit to it, if you believe that career numbers mean nothing compared to a few months of results just say it instead of trying to talk around it. Buehrle is not past his prime and Peavy has had success against the AL, the guy is one of the elite pitchers in the league. I am assuming you do not pay attention to things like mechanics, pitch selection etc as well, because to have the philosophy you have on GM-ing numbers are who the player is now regardless of how he is achieving those.

[NorthSideSox72]

I guess I just see a benefit to having an experienced backup catcher if your starter is a rookie. I think having a veteran might actually help Flowers' development. Also, I'm not a big Lucy fan. I just don't see his bat holding up over the course of a full season.

Lucy gives you many of the benefits you'd get from a veteran - he's already got a reputation for handling pitchers well, so much so that Ozzie and Coop both commented on it during his short stint with the big club. Donny also gives you plus defense, which can hopefully rub off on Flowers. All that for a lot less money. Honestly, I don't see the benefit in paying $1-2M for an experienced backup C, since most of those guys are experienced as a BACKUP for a reason.

 

[ThunderBolt]

I don't think of what's to come as a firesale, more like purge. Get rid of elements that need replacing, and replace them with guys to add to the young core to compete as soon as next year.

[shago]

Let's start the dumping with Ozzie

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

our pitching staff is set for the next couple years, same with the CF, SS, and 2B most likely. i see no problem in getting rid of AJ and seeing if Flowers is the longterm catcher for us. Sadly, we are stuck with Teahen at 3rd and that other crap in the outfield. We really have no major league ready prospects aside from Flowers and Hudson IMO. Unless we get some decent prospects in return, i'm not sure who will man 1B or the corner outfield spots in the near future, as in next year.

 

Here's to hoping we draft Austin Wilson and he makes a Jason Heyward type rise to the top...

[kwolf68]

our pitching staff is set for the next couple years, same with the CF, SS, and 2B most likely. i see no problem in getting rid of AJ and seeing if Flowers is the longterm catcher for us. Sadly, we are stuck with Teahen at 3rd and that other crap in the outfield. We really have no major league ready prospects aside from Flowers and Hudson IMO. Unless we get some decent prospects in return, i'm not sure who will man 1B or the corner outfield spots in the near future, as in next year.

 

Here's to hoping we draft Austin Wilson and he makes a Jason Heyward type rise to the top...

 

 

I don't think Flowers is ready and at this point Hudson isn't either, but he is closer.

 

Just take a gander at our minors, it's terrible.

 

The major league team is full of creaky veterans or waiver wire fodder.

 

Much as I hate to do it, we need to try to trade whoever can bring in the pieces to start producing long term success to this franchise.

 

 

 

 

[Melissa1334]

Let's start the dumping with Ozzie

because its his fault that aj, beckham, alexei, cq, floyd, jenks,etc have sucked.....

[The Ginger Kid]

I'm not entirely sure I trust the architects in charge of dismantling and re-building

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

because its his fault that aj, beckham, alexei, cq, floyd, jenks,etc have sucked.....

it's his fault we don't have thome and it's pretty much his fault that we have this whole rotating DH bulls*** that was bound to fail from the start... it's his fault for putting up f***ing mindlessly thoughtout lineups...

[The Ginger Kid]

I'm not in favor of firing Guillen, but he is the one who said during the off season that he's excited to get the chance to coach, and that he would take all the blame if this didn't work. I don't favor firing him because who could've imagined that so many would under perform? Is that his fault? Debatable.

[ThunderBolt]

I'm not in favor of firing Guillen, but he is the one who said during the off season that he's excited to get the chance to coach, and that he would take all the blame if this didn't work. I don't favor firing him because who could've imagined that so many would under perform? Is that his fault? Debatable.

The lineups he's been putting out there are his fault, he's also taken responsbility for the DH fiasco.

[chw42]

Jones has the most trade value.

 

Hopefully, we deal him before he starts breaking down, something that's probably inevitable.

 

A.J. won't bring much of anything. If we can get a Max Ramirez out of him, I'd be very happy.

Edited May 18, 2010 by chw42

[dyuen]

Jones has the most trade value.

 

A.J. won't bring much of anything. If we can get a Max Ramirez out of him, I'd be very happy.

interesting, i think jones has very little trade value. i expect that he will end up hitting about .240 on the year

[chw42]

interesting, i think jones has very little trade value. i expect that he will end up hitting about .240 on the year

 

He's making 500K this year. He won't yield much in comparison to lots of players, but if you were to trade him right now, he'd get you a lot more than A.J. would.

[dyuen]

He's making 500K this year. He won't yield much in comparison to lots of players, but if you were to trade him right now, he'd get you a lot more than A.J. would.

that is probably true

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The board is going nuts with this trade everyone crap. Anyone who believes Tyler Flowers will as good as AJ Pierzynski has his head in the clouds, and that's the best case scenario. Anyone who believes Buerhle can/will be replaced is even loonier. We have been playing like crap because KW listened to his psycho manager and decided to have an offseason with his head stuck down a toilet. Fix the problems and suddenly we're a better team. Unloading vets for a bunch of prospects is not a smart idea and it just makes us worse. You prospect lovers need to wake up and realize that most of the players out there you're salivating over aren't going to make it at all. The value of an AJ Pierzynski in ****real life***** on the baseball field is a thousand times greater than that of Tyroid Flowers.

 

It's one thing to talk about selling high on someone like Freddy or Putz, or even the resurgent Andruw Jones, or dumping the future non-tender candidate Bobby Jenks, but the idea of dumping guys like Mark and AJ is nuts. And I'm not even going to mention dealing names like Gavin and Johnny Danks because that is just waaaay too stupid to even respond to. Anyone who thinks it would be a good idea to trade those guys is off his/her f***ing rocker and needs to abandon the season right now before he/she ends up going on an angry, stupid rampage.

 

PS the saving money argument is pretty much null and void at this point considering the Sox have lied all offseason about what they had to spend. They bulls***ted their way through the DH/lefty bat discussions saying they were broke and then found Damon's offer apparently hanging on the money tree. Bulls***. The Sox aren't broke. The Sox made their own bed and now they have to sleep in it. The Sox had the seeds for a great f***ing 2010 ballclub last September and then one of the better General Managers in baseball suddenly forgot what his f***ing job was. The Sox pissed away the brilliant investments that were Jake Peavy and Alex Rios and now they have to deal with it. f*** this "saving money" s*** because you know it's a bunch of crap if you paid attention over the offseason. Hopefully the Sox wake up and get back to being a smart baseball team and Kenny realizes that he plays second fiddle ***to absolutely no one other than ownership**** and then takes this team back. I do trust in Kenny and have for a long time, but the dumbest move he has ever made in his entire career happened this offseason, and it was him allowing a manager too much input. He f***ing knew he needed offense and he let Ozzie talk him out of it. And no one is to blame for that other than Kenny. It's his fault, now he needs to fix it, and he needs to do it by coming up with a couple good players to fill a couple big holes, not blowing up a ballclub that has most of its necessary pieces in place.

 

PS I'm still hoping I'm wrong on Teahen and Pierre, and I'll continue to rag on those acquisitions until they prove they don't suck. But they do, so whatever. I hope to God Jim Hendry is looking for a couple more s***ty ballplayers to give a lot of money to, because if he is, we've got a few he can have.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

interesting, i think jones has very little trade value. i expect that he will end up hitting about .240 on the year

Go look up Andruw's stats on baseball-reference. Andruw hitting in the mid-200's isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.

[ThunderBolt]

The board is going nuts with this trade everyone crap. Anyone who believes Tyler Flowers will as good as AJ Pierzynski has his head in the clouds,

Really? You really feel like given the wealth of information that we have on Tyler Flowers at the major league level that you can defend this claim?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Really? You really feel like given the wealth of information that we have on Tyler Flowers at the major league level that you can defend this claim?

Look at what Flowers does well and look at what he doesn't do well. Then consider the odds, and consider how many great prospects fail all the time, especially at the catching position. You ask me to defend my claim, and I'm just making a prediction. You can look at our own track record if you like. If you think Flowers will end up a good MLB player then you are the one going out on a limb. We'll see in time, but personally I hope we trade him while his value is still high.

[daggins]

It's true that prospects fail often but the idea that you should trade them while their "value is high" is pretty ludicrous. What would you expect in return for him, or a package based around him, anyways? If it is obvious to you that he is going to fail, don't you think it might have occurred to 29 General Managers of the MLB as well? The fact that you still think they would give up worthwhile players in return for a guy who could bust just indicates why we shouldnt deal him - he might bust, but if he doesn't he provides a boatload of cheap talent for 6 years.