Unload...

[kitekrazy]

So yesterday in the game thread there were whisperings of changes coming today or tomorrow. Anyone know anything? I have a feeling Beckham might be sent down...I just hope that doesn't mean Vizquel gets more starts. But of course then the option is Nix.

 

My guess would be Kenny fires Walker.

 

They are not going to send Beckham down.

 

[jamesdiego]

Cowley(yea, whatever) reported today that Kenny is now comtemplating changes in the coaching staff. Even though Oz is supposed to be in charge of who his coaches are, that might change soon. Said KW is not interested in making changes to the players yet.

 

I hope Walker is gone by the end of the week.

[hawksox13]

Cowley(yea, whatever) reported today that Kenny is now comtemplating changes in the coaching staff. Even though Oz is supposed to be in charge of who his coaches are, that might change soon. Said KW is not interested in making changes to the players yet.

 

I hope Walker is gone by the end of the week.

 

Even if Walker is gone by the end of the week, it's just change for the sake of change. Firing Walker won't do a damn bit of good. This team has to suck it up, admit they were wrong and start positioning for next season by dealing some of the players that won't be around next season anyway (Pierzynski, Putz, Garcia, Jenks, Konerko). You may not get much or anything for Garcia, but why not let Hudson come up and get some more major league experience?

[Balta1701]

Even if Walker is gone by the end of the week, it's just change for the sake of change. Firing Walker won't do a damn bit of good. This team has to suck it up, admit they were wrong and start positioning for next season by dealing some of the players that won't be around next season anyway (Pierzynski, Putz, Garcia, Jenks, Konerko). You may not get much or anything for Garcia, but why not let Hudson come up and get some more major league experience?

Hudson is just recently finding his grove in AAA. He could easily benefit from another month+ there.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah fire Walker because he did so poorly with Alex Rios this offseason.

 

The only legitimate argument for firing coaches is that they Sox need a few scapegoats to take the blame.

[BigSqwert]

Yeah fire Walker because he did so poorly with Alex Rios this offseason.

 

The only legitimate argument for firing coaches is that they Sox need a few scapegoats to take the blame.

Can you give me a hypothetical scenario where you think firing a hitting coach is necessary?

[Balta1701]

Can you give me a hypothetical scenario where you think firing a hitting coach is necessary?

When you fire a manager and allow him to bring in his own staff.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yeah fire Walker because he did so poorly with Alex Rios this offseason.

 

The only legitimate argument for firing coaches is that they Sox need a few scapegoats to take the blame.

While I'd agree that the effect of a hitting coach (positive or negative) is often overstated, I think this is as clear a case as you can get to fire one (barring violent crime). This team has underachieved offensively for years, has been piss-poor situationally, and its painfully clear they are not prepared for pitchers they haven't already seen. Now, that blame may ALSO fall on the scouting staff or others, which is why the best move is probably to fire everyone in that chain, not just Walker. But honestly, I don't see how it could be more clear that a change in that area of the staff is needed.

 

[fathom]

You fire Walker because of the struggles of our players adjusting to the league adjusting to them (ie: Fields, Beckham, Quentin). If Walker's going to say he can't help veterans, then who is he really helping? Greg Walker might be the greatest hitting coach ever, but obviously something isn't working with the Sox offense. There's no harm in trying something different. Firing a hitting coach and hoping someone new can help our struggling hitters is a lot more efficient than having to get rid of guys like Quentin.

[fathom]

While I'd agree that the effect of a hitting coach (positive or negative) is often overstated, I think this is as clear a case as you can get to fire one (barring violent crime). This team has underachieved offensively for years, has been piss-poor situationally, and its painfully clear they are not prepared for pitchers they haven't already seen. Now, that blame may ALSO fall on the scouting staff or others, which is why the best move is probably to fire everyone in that chain, not just Walker. But honestly, I don't see how it could be more clear that a change in that area of the staff is needed.

 

Well said, as I know you're one of the last people to jump on the fire bandwagon for anyone.

[BigSqwert]

When you fire a manager and allow him to bring in his own staff.

I'd just go with abysmal performance from your entire lineup minus 1 or 2 players.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Can you give me a hypothetical scenario where you think firing a hitting coach is necessary?

 

Midseason, I just don't know what it accomplishes aside from pointing a finger. I'm not trying to defend Walker here, I just think the effect of pitching/hitting coach changes mid-year is generally overblown.

[BigSqwert]

Midseason, I just don't know what it accomplishes aside from pointing a finger. I'm not trying to defend Walker here, I just think the effect of pitching/hitting coach changes mid-year is generally overblown.

And it probably is but it's long overdue.

[Balta1701]

I'd just go with abysmal performance from your entire lineup minus 1 or 2 players.

But you know what? that happens. Statistics say it happens, everyone knows it happens. Then you fire the hitting coach, the team then suddenly gets hot under a new hitting coach because the numbers average out, and 2 years later you're firing the new hitting coach because it started off slowly again.

 

If you're firing Walker, you may as well clean house.

[Chisoxfn]

I think Walker will be fired.

[jamesdiego]

Any kind of change can only be a good thing. What can it really hurt to try to spark the club before Kenny starts trading players away?

[fathom]

Any kind of change can only be a good thing. What can it really hurt to try to spark the club before Kenny starts trading players away?

 

EXACTLY!

[Milkman delivers]

You're out of your mind if you think I read any of that slop. And I don't have anything against him. But I'll definitely go slit one of my wrists now that you've deemed him a better poster than me. No coming back from that.

 

Just FYI, but his post is actually only about half of what he put together there. He pasted a paragraph from daggins, responded to it, and continued in that fashion.

[Soxbadger]

If your going "Any change is good", Id rather see Ozzie fired.

 

I think he has a much larger impact on how the club plays, their attitude, etc.

 

If your saying "Any change is good, but lets limit to a purely superficial change" then you fire the hitting coach, pitching coach, strength instructor, first base coach, third base coach, or any other scapegoat you can point the finger at. Ozzie is the manager, its his call on who the coaches are. If he thinks Walker is doing a bad job and wants him gone, that is an entirely different story. But from what I can recall, Ozzie has defended Walker.

 

So what will a new coach, who is brought in under Ozzie really change?

 

Not much. Ozzie is the manager, and there isnt going to be some new hitting coach that will stand up to Ozzie.

 

I guess Im not one to blame the messenger. Its Ozzie's team, if its going down hes the one who should go down with it.

[RockRaines]

You fire Walker because of the struggles of our players adjusting to the league adjusting to them (ie: Fields, Beckham, Quentin). If Walker's going to say he can't help veterans, then who is he really helping? Greg Walker might be the greatest hitting coach ever, but obviously something isn't working with the Sox offense. There's no harm in trying something different. Firing a hitting coach and hoping someone new can help our struggling hitters is a lot more efficient than having to get rid of guys like Quentin.

He's been here long enough, time for a different voice. Give Big Frank the job, I dont care, just someone else.

[greg775]

Care to give some solid justification on why he should be the manager? I feel that all I'm going to hear is "2005 2005 2005".

 

Basically because he knows baseball, has lived baseball.

He knows what he's doing. Like all managers he wins when he has good players; he loses when he has crap.

He loves the White Sox; exudes his love for the White Sox.

He makes the right moves. He, like all managers, can't help it if the players don't come through in executing his moves.

He like anybody else has opinions on the make up of his roster. Most managers don't have much of a say. He was given too much of a say by KW. That should change. He should take what he's given and manage it.

Everytime I read his quotes they make perfect sense.

He's going to be a manager for the next 20 years and get better and better. He might as well be doing that with the Sox, a perfect fit for him.

Are those enough reasons?

 

Is he perfect? No. I wish he'd identify his best players on this horses*** roster and go with them almost every single day.

This rest stuff is overrated especially early in the year. I can understand why he wouldn't want to watch some of these stiffs play every day, but he was doing the "rest" thing a lot in past seasons, too with the Sunday lineups.

But I love Ozzie and think he knows his s***. He's young and he's good.

Some of you who want change probably also want the second team QB a lot and unless the second-team QB is good, that never works out either.

 

Sox everyday lineup sucks; Sox suck. Starting pitchers should turn it around. On paper, not a bad rotation.

Ozzie is good.

 

He's gotten a lot of on the job experience here in his first managing job. Why ship him somewhere else to bring in some clown like Buddy Bell or some retread or even some manager from our minor league system? Dumb. Let Ozzie reign.

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[Soxbadger]

Ozzie is a pretty bad in game manager, pretty bad at match ups. His only good trait was that he seemingly worked well with the team and got them to play at a higher level than maybe they should have.

 

The last few years he has not brought much to the table. I like Ozzie and hell always have 2005, but if you want change, it starts at the top.

[SoxAce]

Ozzie is a pretty bad in game manager, pretty bad at match ups. His only good trait was that he seemingly worked well with the team and got them to play at a higher level than maybe they should have.

 

The last few years he has not brought much to the table. I like Ozzie and hell always have 2005, but if you want change, it starts at the top.

 

I agree with you 100% and I've talked about this before in the past.

[greg775]

My guess is if you followed any manager as closely as you follow the Sox and their manager, you'd ultimately come to the conclusion that manager is a "bad in-game manager."

All decisions of all managers get second guessed and when the crap talent puts an L up, the manager's decisions look dumb.

 

I blame talent unless the manager is a buffoon like Bevington.

[Soxbadger]

That may or may not be true.

 

What I can say with absolute certainty is that I do not have a lot of confidence in Ozzie making the right decision if the game is on the line.

 

That is a problem that will eventually have to be dealt with.