NBA Offseason Thread

[bmags]

It's more than assists and points.

 

Most NBA people will tell you that Williams is a tier 1 PG with Chris Paul. And they're pretty much right.

 

Derrick Rose is in that second tier right now, albeit a high second tier.

 

WARP shows this, Williams was worth 13.2 WARP last year, Rose was worth around 5.5.

 

Williams also created 10 more wins than Rose did last year.

 

some of them might mention steve nash as well.

[chw42]

Cap will be at $58 million. Looks like we have two more million to play with than expected.

[chw42]

some of them might mention steve nash as well.

 

Yeah, he's in there as well.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Rock, do you know what a jump shot is?

[lostfan]

Well oddly enough the biggest US markets have also been the most damn successful in NBA basketball.

I'm not saying being in a big market doesn't matter but originally we were talking about LeBron and New York (I thought) and it was kind of all over the place.

[SoxFan562004]

Cap will be at $58 million. Looks like we have two more million to play with than expected.

well, so does the Heat, NYK and everyone else, in the end it will probably drive up the other salaries about the same so guys will make a little more, but I don't see it drastically changing the landscape

[StrangeSox]

I'm not saying being in a big market doesn't matter but originally we were talking about LeBron and New York (I thought) and it was kind of all over the place.

 

greg was trying to say he'd make just as much if not more money in Cleveland over Chicago and New York.

[RockRaines]

Rock, do you know what a jump shot is?

Yes, I'll drop them on you all day.

[RockRaines]

It's more than assists and points.

 

Most NBA people will tell you that Williams is a tier 1 PG with Chris Paul. And they're pretty much right.

 

Derrick Rose is in that second tier right now, albeit a high second tier.

 

WARP shows this, Williams was worth 13.2 WARP last year, Rose was worth around 5.5.

 

Williams also created 10 more wins than Rose did last year.

Thanks, finally some actual info. I agree that as far as being a pure PG, Williams is further along at this point than Rose is, but I see that closing the gap shortly, with Rose still being the superior scorer. Turnovers is def something he must improve.

[SoxFan562004]

FWIW, Alan Houston via Twitter is shooting down rumors the press conference is at his house tomorrow in CT, he said he had to tell his communities security in case people tried to camp out.

[RockRaines]

Deron averaged 10.5 assists to Rose's 6. That is a dramatic difference. Williams is also a much better shooter than Rose. 80% FT, 37% 3pt to 77% and 27% for Rose. Not to mention the fact that Williams TS% is .574 and Rose TS% is only at .532. Rose has a higher shooting percentage because he takes less jump shots, he isn't a better shooter. At this point in time Rose is a mediocre passer and distributor and I haven't seen him excel at running the pick and roll. He can score and likely at some point will surpass Williams in that area but he isn't even close to DWill when it comes to running the show.

 

And he hasn't been close to the best player on the court in the playoff games he's played in. LeBron was by far and away the best player in that series this year.

Well, of course LeBron is a better player, but Rose was right up there this year, and was the dominant player in the playoffs last year. I watched him clown Rondo a few times this year in person, and thats the guy ESPN cant stop knobbing. Fair enough on the pure PG stuff, still think at this point in their careers, Rose is the more dynamic player as a second year guy dropping those numbers.

[bmags]

I'm not saying being in a big market doesn't matter but originally we were talking about LeBron and New York (I thought) and it was kind of all over the place.

 

Well, you said that it's overstated the amount you can make in endorsements in big markets v. small markets. Mine focused on specifically basketball and how the big markets can mean more than just the number of people in the city you can make money from but also the markets globally you can cash in on - even if you would grant their national popularity may stay the same.

 

I don't know, I think it's hard to deny. Chris Paul, Durant - these players are nowhere near as popular as they would be if they were on NY, Bos, Philly, even Washington probably. And that means a lot in the big money national endorsements, because they are only going to give out so much. And some lesser players fortunate enough to live in big markets where ESPN will pimp them, get a huge advantage.

 

I'll say the equalizer is for someone as good as lebron, everyone, even casual fans, have heard of him. And my point was that a city like chicago, LA, new york have a global following that adding a player increases interest in those markets.

[chw42]

well, so does the Heat, NYK and everyone else, in the end it will probably drive up the other salaries about the same so guys will make a little more, but I don't see it drastically changing the landscape

 

I think we need that money more than any of them. Well, maybe not more than Miami.

[whitesoxfan99]

Thanks, finally some actual info. I agree that as far as being a pure PG, Williams is further along at this point than Rose is, but I see that closing the gap shortly, with Rose still being the superior scorer. Turnovers is def something he must improve.

 

Rose isn't a superior scorer at this point in time, he scores about 2 more points per game but he does so less efficiently than Deron. I think he will eventually become more of a pure scorer than Deron but I haven't seen any indications that he will ever be a distributor the way DWill, Paul and Nash are (but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just that his game resembles Wade much more than any of those guys).

[bmags]

Rose isn't a superior scorer at this point in time, he scores about 2 more points per game but he does so less efficiently than Deron. I think he will eventually become more of a pure scorer than Deron but I haven't seen any indications that he will ever be a distributor the way DWill, Paul and Nash are (but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just that his game resembles Wade much more than any of those guys).

 

Rose also didn't have the benefit of anyone worth a damn offensively this season though. I don't think he's taking more shots, and less quality shots, by choice.

[HuskyCaucasian]

New NBA salary cap just announced, $58.04 million. Small increase from last season, but way above projections from a year ago.

 

Now we have even more cash to work with!

Wow. Didn't see that coming.

[greg775]

Yeah, if he manages to do that, he'll be a hero in Cleveland. No one is denying that. I'll be surprised if he doesn't stay in Cleveland. But it's not because they have the better roster or he can make just as much if not more money there.

 

What are you talking about? You agree he's staying in Cleveland but don't like my reasons? What are your reasons then.

 

Mine are .. he'll make just as much money in Cleveland.

He doesn't want to s*** on his hometown especially coming to rival Chicago.

He'll be a hero forever WHEN the Cavs win it. And they will win it with him.

I think you overestimate the Bulls talent as well.

[RockRaines]

Rose also didn't have the benefit of anyone worth a damn offensively this season though. I don't think he's taking more shots, and less quality shots, by choice.

I was just going to add something like that, but you beat me to it. Rose still hasnt had anyone he can really lean on to distribute to. The closest he's had in his career is probably Gordon when Rose was a rookie. With someone like Boozer and possibly an actual shooter, I see his assist numbers taking a nice jump.

[bmags]

i don't think anyone will actually care that it was chicago because of rivalry. That was really only a rivalry because both cities had good teams. And greg, how do we overestimate the bulls talent. Also, he won't make more money in cleveland. No one makes more money in cleveland.

[bmags]

I was just going to add something like that, but you beat me to it. Rose still hasnt had anyone he can really lean on to distribute to. The closest he's had in his career is probably Gordon when Rose was a rookie. With someone like Boozer and possibly an actual shooter, I see his assist numbers taking a nice jump.

 

And, again, I'll add, Boozer had pretty good offensive numbers before Williams. It's not like he went from a 5 ppg guy to a 20 ppg guy overnight.

[whitesoxfan99]

Well, of course LeBron is a better player, but Rose was right up there this year, and was the dominant player in the playoffs last year. I watched him clown Rondo a few times this year in person, and thats the guy ESPN cant stop knobbing. Fair enough on the pure PG stuff, still think at this point in their careers, Rose is the more dynamic player as a second year guy dropping those numbers.

 

Derrick wasn't right up there with LeBron. LeBron shot 57%, 54% from 3 and averaged 32, 9 rbs, and 8 assists. Rose had a very good series averaging 27 and 7 while shooting 45% but that isn't right up there with LeBron. He wasn't the dominant player in that series though because his turnover rate was so incredibly high. Rose is a very good player and he will be a great one but he isn't at Williams level yet and I'm not sure comparing them will ever make a ton of sense since they are such different players.

 

Rose is a better scorer than Williams was in his 2nd year in the league but even then Deron was a much better distributor than Rose.

[chw42]

What are you talking about? You agree he's staying in Cleveland but don't like my reasons? What are your reasons then.

 

Mine are .. he'll make just as much money in Cleveland.

He doesn't want to s*** on his hometown especially coming to rival Chicago.

He'll be a hero forever WHEN the Cavs win it. And they will win it with him.

I think you overestimate the Bulls talent as well.

 

He won't make jack in Cleveland. Compared to NYC and Chicago, Cleveland doesn't get him much endorsement money.

[whitesoxfan99]

Rose also didn't have the benefit of anyone worth a damn offensively this season though. I don't think he's taking more shots, and less quality shots, by choice.

 

Williams averaged just as many assists last year when Boozer missed close to 50 games and his SG was Ronnie Brewer and his SF was Kirilenko, neither of whom can hit a jump shot. Rose wasn't really even a great distributor in college, maybe some of it is the players he has played with and the systems he has been in but he might always just be more of a score first PG.

[RockRaines]

He won't make jack in Cleveland. Compared to NYC and Chicago, Cleveland doesn't get him much endorsement money.

Cleveland does have better corned beef though. Seriously.

[bmags]

Derrick wasn't right up there with LeBron. LeBron shot 57%, 54% from 3 and averaged 32, 9 rbs, and 8 assists. Rose had a very good series averaging 27 and 7 while shooting 45% but that isn't right up there with LeBron. He wasn't the dominant player in that series though because his turnover rate was so incredibly high. Rose is a very good player and he will be a great one but he isn't at Williams level yet and I'm not sure comparing them will ever make a ton of sense since they are such different players.

 

Rose is a better scorer than Williams was in his 2nd year in the league but even then Deron was a much better distributor than Rose.

 

deron also had 4 years in college to Rose's 1. The only point I'm trying to make in all this is this line of thought that Boozer will be a 10 ppg player without Williams isn't realistic compared to Boozers career line or the dropoff from williams to Rose. If this was Khalid El Amin you may have a point.