NBA Offseason Thread

[lord chas]

Scottie was a HOF player, but it's hard to rate him as one of the top 5 players in his era.

i think he definitely is a top 5 player of his era. he was an absolute shut down defender and carried that 94 team on his back

[Jenksismyhero]

Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Shaq and Z have all been all-stars

 

past their prime, but good point. that helps my argument.

[RME JICO]

Bosh is a better scorer than Rodman, but that is about it. Rodman was so good defensively and rebounding that he perfectly complimented Jordan and Pip.

 

Jordan > LeBron

Pippen = Wade

Rodman/Grant

 

Bulls bench > Heat bench ???????

[RockRaines]

Scottie was a HOF player, but it's hard to rate him as one of the top 5 players in his era.

He's a top 50 all time right?

 

If Scottie had the Shaq Wade had, he wins rings when Michael was retired.

[Chi Town Sox]

past their prime, but good point. that helps my argument.

 

 

2 of them are now past there prime, but Z was on the Cavs with LeBron in his prime and Jamison and Mo Williams have recently been on the Allstar Team so I never understood why people say he didn't have "anyone"

[Felix]

I imagine they'll probably trade Flynn now that it looks like Rubio's definitely going to come over.

 

If they can trade Jefferson for a good SG, I like the makeup of that team quite a bit actually.

Fully agreed on both counts. There were talks of trading Flynn to the Cavs, although I don't know what we'd get back from them.

 

However, if we trade Jefferson for nothing but cap room, I'm going livid. We have a major hole at SG right now, unless we really want to count on Corey Brewer's inconsistent shooting (although he took major steps forward last year).

 

I also still would have much prefered Cousins to Johnson, although Wes is more NBA ready and fills a definite hole we had. Lower ceiling, but more likely to reach it.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Felix

[Palehosefan]

He's a top 50 all time right?

 

If Scottie had the Shaq Wade had, he wins rings when Michael was retired.

 

I will retract my statement, I can't think of a better SF in the 90's.

[clyons]

Admittedly, I follow the NBA the least of the 4 major sports. But it seems to me that no one can be sure how a "Big 3" dynamic will work, simply because its never been done before (at least to this degree). Those predicting guaranteed championships might be as far off as those dismissing them.

 

That said, I do think NBA basketball still comes down to TEAM, which in turn comes down to having players that compliment each other. Usually that means two great players, and 3-4 good players; the guys filling out the roster need only be decent at one particular thing (rebounding, 3pt shooting, intensity), so long as they complement the rest of the other guys.

 

Miami can probably fill out their roster with competent, and complementary one dimensional guys, but the key will come down to filling the spots of men 3 through 6 with solid guys who can mesh with the Big 3. I think that could very well take a few years.

 

Call me crazy, but I think I don't think if a Lebron could have been added to the 95-96 Bulls, they necessarily win more than the 72, or that those titles would still be locks. The NBA certainly is different than other hoops, but its still a game where the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Can I still be a Marlins fan, or do I have to hate the entire city of Miami?

[BigSqwert]

Admittedly, I follow the NBA the least of the 4 major sports. But it seems to me that no one can be sure how a "Big 3" dynamic will work, simply because its never been done before (at least to this degree). Those predicting guaranteed championships might be as far off as those dismissing them.

 

That said, I do think NBA basketball still comes down to TEAM, which in turn comes down to having players that compliment each other. Usually that means two great players, and 3-4 good players; the guys filling out the roster need only be decent at one particular thing (rebounding, 3pt shooting, intensity), so long as they complement the rest of the other guys.

 

Miami can probably fill out their roster with competent, and complementary one dimensional guys, but the key will come down to filling the spots of men 3 through 6 with solid guys who can mesh with the Big 3. I think that could very well take a few years.

 

Call me crazy, but I think I don't think if a Lebron could have been added to the 95-96 Bulls, they necessarily win more than the 72, or that those titles would still be locks. The NBA certainly is different than other hoops, but its still a game where the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts.

Well stated sir.

[LittleHurt05]

Call me crazy, but I think I don't think if a Lebron could have been added to the 95-96 Bulls, they necessarily win more than the 72, or that those titles would still be locks. The NBA certainly is different than other hoops, but its still a game where the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts.

 

Those titles would still be locks, cause #23 would have looked at LeBron dancing and said "Get the f*** outta my way kid. I'm gonna go win another ring right now."

[ZoomSlowik]

2 of them are now past there prime, but Z was on the Cavs with LeBron in his prime and Jamison and Mo Williams have recently been on the Allstar Team so I never understood why people say he didn't have "anyone"

 

Because he had Jamison for only 25 games plus the playoffs and Mo Williams was only an All-Star because he was an injury replacement after there was an uproar that "there had to be two Cavs on the roster since they had the best record." Mo Williams isn't an All-Star caliber player any more than Luol Deng is. Ilgauskas is decent, but has career averages of 14-8 and probably wouldn't be near the roster if he were a PF rather than a C.

 

Just putting an "All-Star" game appearance or two next to a guy's name doesn't mean that they suddenly get a lot better. Remember that when the Cavs are struggling to crack the 30 win threshold this year.

[DrunkBomber]

I think people don't understand just how good the Heat are. Bosh/Wade/James and D leaguers is a 60 win team at least. And the Heat will have better than D leaguers on the floor with them.

 

Here's a projection which captures just how damn good the Heat will be. This is very likely to be the best NBA team ever assembled. The Bulls win record will fall..if not next season then some time in the next 5 years.

The Heat will be the most top heavy team of all time. It would be moronic to ride these 3 to a season wins record when if any of them got injured they would be devastated. They will need everything these guys got in the playoffs and especially to beat the Lakers, why would you run down your only weapons for a meaningless record. Lets hope they are dumb enough to be playing these 3 40+ minutes at the end of the season when they already have the 1 seed locked up.

[Jenksismyhero]

Another great piece by Woj at Yahoo. He's quickly becoming a must-read for me.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Akxt...ndecision070910

[Soxbadger]

Here is a SI columnist's take:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

 

Most of these sentiments mirror what I was saying last night. Its just hard to accept that a player of Lebron's ability taking the easy way out.

 

Ah well, it kind of sucks just because I would have liked Lebron on any other team.

[fathom]

Another great piece by Woj at Yahoo. He's quickly becoming a must-read for me.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Akxt...ndecision070910

 

wow, what a great article.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Another great piece by Woj at Yahoo. He's quickly becoming a must-read for me.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Akxt...ndecision070910

Excellent read

[Chi Town Sox]

Because he had Jamison for only 25 games plus the playoffs and Mo Williams was only an All-Star because he was an injury replacement after there was an uproar that "there had to be two Cavs on the roster since they had the best record." Mo Williams isn't an All-Star caliber player any more than Luol Deng is. Ilgauskas is decent, but has career averages of 14-8 and probably wouldn't be near the roster if he were a PF rather than a C.

 

Just putting an "All-Star" game appearance or two next to a guy's name doesn't mean that they suddenly get a lot better. Remember that when the Cavs are struggling to crack the 30 win threshold this year.

 

I never said that made them better, Mo Williams actually put up better numbers before he had come to Cleveland and joined the All-Star team. An all-star is an all-star, you can't say that Z wouldn't have made the team if a Center was a different position, that makes no sense. I never said these players were amazing, but he has had a better supporting cast than what he is given credit for. He has had the decent supporting cast and all of the role players, the grindy Anderson Varajeo's, the three point shooter Daniel Gibson, the high flyer Jamario Moon. He just didn't get it done and gave up on it now, I am pretty sure he has had a big hand in the players they have gotten and he has helped decide who to go out and get. He should have stayed and finished the business

[HuskyCaucasian]

Here is a SI columnist's take:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

 

Most of these sentiments mirror what I was saying last night. Its just hard to accept that a player of Lebron's ability taking the easy way out.

 

Ah well, it kind of sucks just because I would have liked Lebron on any other team.

Michael Jordan announced on national television he's leaving Chicago to join the Detroit Pistons. Jordan said it was tough to bolt Chicago, where he was the most popular athlete in many years, because he thinks he has a better chance to win a championship if he plays with Pistons star Isiah Thomas. Jordan said by playing together, he and Thomas "won't have the pressure of going out and scoring 30 every night."

 

That's a really good comparison. Michael not only wanted to go out and score 30 every night, he wanted to dump 50 on your face.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

So, Michael and Kobe THRIVE under pressure, and James doesnt want any pressure.

[Palehosefan]

I never said that made them better, Mo Williams actually put up better numbers before he had come to Cleveland and joined the All-Star team. An all-star is an all-star, you can't say that Z wouldn't have made the team if a Center was a different position, that makes no sense. I never said these players were amazing, but he has had a better supporting cast than what he is given credit for. He has had the decent supporting cast and all of the role players, the grindy Anderson Varajeo's, the three point shooter Daniel Gibson, the high flyer Jamario Moon. He just didn't get it done and gave up on it now, I am pretty sure he has had a big hand in the players they have gotten and he has helped decide who to go out and get. He should have stayed and finished the business

 

You can't stay in Cleveland and finish your business. Bosh wanted no part of playing in Cleveland. Boozer stabbed Cleveland in the back at the first chance he could find. It's not like LeBron was drafted into a FA destination location. He had to be moved to a different location for a championship, as not even Michael could win a title without another HOF player on the roster.

 

This stuff is hilariously overblown. LeBron needed a star like Wade on the roster for a title, just like MJ needed Scottie, Kobe needed Pau, Robinson needed Duncan, etc etc. If Bosh would have agreed to Cleveland, none of this would have ever happened.

 

The only legitimate gripe people should have is the horrendous 1 hour spectacle last night. That was just awful in every sense of the word. That's what happens when you have a childhood friend running your business.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Palehosefan

[Soxbadger]

Bosh wanted no part of playing in Cleveland.

 

And this is why Lebron lost respect.

 

Lets say MJ needed another player in Chicago, and called up Magic. Magic says "Sorry MJ Id love to play with you, but Im not going to Chicago."

 

Do you think MJ then turns around and goes to play with Magic?

 

No

 

So Lebron let Bosh turn him into a joke. Lebron couldnt lure 1 free agent to cleveland? He couldnt sell 1 player on a sign and trade?

 

Bulls***.

 

Lebron took the easiest road possible.

 

Quit comparing him to MJ, its nonsense. Pippen wasnt one of the best players before he came to Chicago, he became one of the best players with MJ.

 

Wade was already a Champion, Lebron will have 1 less ring no matter what they do.

 

Would that have been acceptable to MJ?

 

No

[RockRaines]

You can't stay in Cleveland and finish your business. Bosh wanted no part of playing in Cleveland. Boozer stabbed Cleveland in the back at the first chance he could find. It's not like LeBron was drafted into a FA destination location. He had to be moved to a different location for a championship, as not even Michael could win a title without another HOF player on the roster.

 

This stuff is hilariously overblown. LeBron needed a star like Wade on the roster for a title, just like MJ needed Scottie, Kobe needed Pau, Robinson needed Duncan, etc etc. If Bosh would have agreed to Cleveland, none of this would have ever happened.

 

The only legitimate gripe people should have is the horrendous 1 hour spectacle last night. That was just awful in every sense of the word. That's what happens when you have a childhood friend running your business.

MJ stayed where he was until he got the pieces. He never bolted with such fanfare. Kobe stayed and waited for his title, then he waited to build his own championship team out of the shadow of Shaq. Robinson was a picture of team loyalty, waiting until the twilight of his career until they had the other piece to make him a winner. LeBron turned his back on his hometown and his team to take the easy way out. They arent even remotely comparable.

[Chi Town Sox]

You can't stay in Cleveland and finish your business. Bosh wanted no part of playing in Cleveland. Boozer stabbed Cleveland in the back at the first chance he could find. It's not like LeBron was drafted into a FA destination location. He had to be moved to a different location for a championship, as not even Michael could win a title without another HOF player on the roster.

 

This stuff is hilariously overblown. LeBron needed a star like Wade on the roster for a title, just like MJ needed Scottie, Kobe needed Pau, Robinson needed Duncan, etc etc. If Bosh would have agreed to Cleveland, none of this would have ever happened.

 

The only legitimate gripe people should have is the horrendous 1 hour spectacle last night. That was just awful in every sense of the word. That's what happens when you have a childhood friend running your business.

 

Everyone that says this is missing the point, LeBron has stated that he wanted to be the greatest to ever play and he is fully capable of that. You do not join a team with your 2 all-star buddies if you want to show how great you are. MJ didn't have the starting cast as they kept losing over and over again in 1990, but when he was a free agent he STAYED with the Bulls to finish the business. LBJ had a part in each of the Cavs decisions, he knows it, everyone knows it - they never said no to him. He should have stayed and got it done

 

I don't mean this direct to you but I have heard others say he cannot get it done there, he is LeBron James and should be able to get who he wants to come there, 8 or 9 times out of 10 to win a title

Edited July 9, 2010 by Chi Town Sox

[Palehosefan]

And this is why Lebron lost respect.

 

Lets say MJ needed another player in Chicago, and called up Magic. Magic says "Sorry MJ Id love to play with you, but Im not going to Chicago."

 

Do you think MJ then turns around and goes to play with Magic?

 

No

 

So Lebron let Bosh turn him into a joke. Lebron couldnt lure 1 free agent to cleveland? He couldnt sell 1 player on a sign and trade?

 

Bulls***.

 

Lebron took the easiest road possible.

 

Quit comparing him to MJ, its nonsense. Pippen wasnt one of the best players before he came to Chicago, he became one of the best players with MJ.

 

Wade was already a Champion, Lebron will have 1 less ring no matter what they do.

 

Would that have been acceptable to MJ?

 

No

 

 

You are seriously comparing Cleveland to Chicago as a FA destination? If a FA passed up the offer to play with MJ, another would follow soon. Cleveland as a basketball organization has won SQUAT before LeBron came along, and couldn't get him enough help in his 7 years. Do I think Michael would have gone to the Magic? Who knows, maybe he would have retired again, or gone to play baseball earlier or joined the Bullets.

 

You can unclench your butt cheeks about LeBron vs. Jordan. We all know MJ was the greatest. LeBron is one of the all-time greats as well. Will he catch Jordan? I doubt it, but I don't have any doubt he will go down at least in the category of Magic, Bird, Kobe etc on the 2nd tier.