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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 09:30 PM)
Centers arguably better than Russell: Mikan, Ewing, Sabonis.

 

If we've overrated Russell for dominance vs weaker competition, then shouldn't Mikan be WAY down the list for playing in an era where the average center was a 6'6" stiff and the league average FG% was in the mid 30s?

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 02:49 PM)
I have to agree that Russell is definitely overrated. Maybe not to the level you think, but overrated, specifically due to the championships. He consistenly had multiple HOFers on his teams. Just because he won with those guys doesn't automatically make him a top-5 player as some seem to think.

 

This is mostly where I fall. I think he's overrated mostly because he seems to get ALL of the credit for those 11 rings from a historical perspective. Havlicek is one of the most underrated players from a historical perspective, the only people you hear really touting him are Celtics homers (cough Simmons cough) or really old farts. Keep in mind that he got two rings post-Russell along with Dave Cowens and Jo Jo White.

 

He's also only one of the great players the Celtics had in that era. Does the casual fan even know who Sam Jones is, much less what he accomplished? Or Tom Heinsohn?

 

However, he was still a damn good player. He wasn't a total gimp offensively, he still scored 15 a game at an average to slightly above average FG% and could handle the ball/pass. I've always compared him to something like Josh Smith with an exponentially higher basketball IQ. While that's not a top-5 player ever, that's still pretty damn good.

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 03:22 PM)
This is mostly where I fall. I think he's overrated mostly because he seems to get ALL of the credit for those 11 rings from a historical perspective. Havlicek is one of the most underrated players from a historical perspective, the only people you hear really touting him are Celtics homers (cough Simmons cough) or really old farts. Keep in mind that he got two rings post-Russell along with Dave Cowens and Jo Jo White.

 

He's also only one of the great players the Celtics had in that era. Does the casual fan even know who Sam Jones is, much less what he accomplished? Or Tom Heinsohn?

 

However, he was still a damn good player. He wasn't a total gimp offensively, he still scored 15 a game at an average to slightly above average FG% and could handle the ball/pass. I've always compared him to something like Josh Smith with an exponentially higher basketball IQ. While that's not a top-5 player ever, that's still pretty damn good.

 

So the people touting him, are the ones who actually saw him play.

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People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 03:49 PM)
People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

Even early 90's escape alot of people nowadays. When Comcast plays the old Bulls games from the title years it amazing how people forget who were on the other team.

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A source told Yahoo! Sports that "Dwight’s not a happy camper," and Howard has told the Magic that he'll leave via free agency if not dealt by the March 15 deadline. In other words, though trade talks have quieted down for the moment, we certainly haven't heard the last of Howard being traded. And it wouldn't be remotely shocking to see trade talk ramp up well in advance of the March 15 deadline.

 

Apparently, Dwight Howard is really interested in making people dislike him.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 04:49 PM)
People, in general, don't know much about basketball pre 1980 in general. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing. The ones we remember were important culturally, or have stayed around the game long enough that we recognize them from that. I couldn't even tell you what Bob Love looks like. Norm Van Lier is a crazy guy on the post game show. I can't think of a single other team I follow that I know so little about before a certain point. probably hawks pre 60, but I'm not even sure if that's true.

Bob Love came to my grade school! This is the extent of my Bob Love knowledge.

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Good post above with that "article". One edit though, Hakeem was magnificent, but the only reason he won those titles was Jordan in retirement. It didnt have anything to do with him all of a sudden wanting to dominate. I'm sure Barkely, Clyde, and Payton would have loved that shot.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 05:44 PM)
Good post above with that "article". One edit though, Hakeem was magnificent, but the only reason he won those titles was Jordan in retirement. It didnt have anything to do with him all of a sudden wanting to dominate. I'm sure Barkely, Clyde, and Payton would have loved that shot.

 

When did Hakeem lose to Jordan in the playoffs? What other seasons did he even make the NBA finals?

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 06:13 PM)
Would they have won those titles if Jordan was still playing?

 

Probably not, I'm not saying he would have beaten Jordan. Just interesting that the two seasons he "dominated" and made the NBA finals were the two years Jordan was gone. The other years he couldn't even get out of the Western Conference to even face the Bulls.

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Yahoo Sports -

The NBA has reached an agreement to trade New Orleans Hornets point guard Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Clippers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

 

The Hornets will receive guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and the Minnesota Timberwolves’ unprotected first-round pick.

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QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 14, 2011 -> 07:20 PM)

 

So if this is happening, the league won, and got a spectacular deal for that asset. Does Kaman's contract expire soon?

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