LittleHurt05 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:00 PM) Ugh, and of course you bring up like the worst example ever. Aren't Jeter's playoff numbers pretty similar to his career numbers? I'm too lazy to look, but my belief was just that he has had so many post season opportunities that he just happens to be successful in those opportunities more than anyone else because of the sheer quantity of them. Jeter's reg. season OPS: .843 Playoff OPS: .863 A-Rod's regular season OPS: .961 Playoff OPS: .977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:00 PM) The problem is, you can only watch so much. In a lot of ways, your eyes are the most powerful weapon for talent evaluation, but in a lot of cases, stats are king. For example, would I rather listen to John Kruk talk about how great Torii Hunter is at fielding or should I just look at UZR and conclude that Hunter's been very mediocre for a while now? I'll take the latter, because John Kruk is most likely the illegitimate father of Paul McAnulty. Absolutely true. But then all offseason I have to hear about how Franklin Gutierrez is the best defensive center fielder ever and now this year he is a distant 5th. So there needs to be some restraint taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) If they arent related I dont know what is truth. Intangibles do exist however, but they also influence stats which will be reportable. Michael Jordan's intangibles made him the best player ever, without those, he probably just produces at a high level because of his talent. PLayers can still produce and not have those intangibles. Its those little things that can turn an avg player into a good one or a good one to a great one. What were Jordan's intangibles? Being able to close games out? It's not like he's a s***ty player in normal leverage situations or anything. People remember those moments the most, so they need to identify it as something. Unfortunately, they confuse that with intangibles, when in reality, that's just Jordan being really good. Intangibles such as team leadership have their bearing, they probably do exist. However, we'll never know how much, because it's an intangible. You can say anything about an intangible and it can be true, so there is literally no proof for how much it exists. The entire thought process of an intangible meaning something that we can quantify or even qualify is contradictory. The problem I have with intangibles is that people take them far too seriously and overvalue them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) FYI - Johnny is pitching an absolute gem right now. Some would argue Paxson might have dropped the ball in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:02 PM) My exact point is to wait and see. You on the other hand said it was done and hes going to Miami. I'm also not posting once every 12 minutes "He's not going to Miami" like you and Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) Absolutely true. But then all offseason I have to hear about how Franklin Gutierrez is the best defensive center fielder ever and now this year he is a distant 5th. So there needs to be some restraint taken. I still think he's the best over the past year and a half at like +35 or something. Nobody's even close to that number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Posting every 12 minutes? I was at the Sox game last night for 6 hours, I made one post when I got home. I then have made maybe 2-3 posts today with my reasoning, and then some posts considering what I think the NBA would feel about it. Not sure how that is 1 every 12 minutes. /shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (SHIPPS @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) Some would argue Paxson might have dropped the ball in all of this. no, that was Omar Vizquel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:08 PM) I still think he's the best over the past year and a half at like +35 or something. Nobody's even close to that number. So what has happened this year? Just not as many balls out of his zone to get to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I think it's awesome that I didn't even think about LeBron James for about a page of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:09 PM) Posting every 12 minutes? I was at the Sox game last night for 6 hours, I made one post when I got home. I then have made maybe 2-3 posts today with my reasoning, and then some posts considering what I think the NBA would feel about it. Not sure how that is 1 every 12 minutes. /shrugs Sorry, I am taking out my frustration on the wrong person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I wonder how long this thread will end up being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) So what has happened this year? Just not as many balls out of his zone to get to? You would need much more specific data for that. But from what I can gather, it looks that way. There are some other fielders who have more OOZ plays and I'm pretty sure Gutierrez led in those last year. He's still taking care of balls in his zone. He's 4th in zone rating and has the most attempts out of anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 One of my sources said that if this thread can get to 500 pages before Lebron makes his announcement hes a Bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) What were Jordan's intangibles? Being able to close games out? It's not like he's a s***ty player in normal leverage situations or anything. People remember those moments the most, so they need to identify it as something. Unfortunately, they confuse that with intangibles, when in reality, that's just Jordan being really good. Intangibles such as team leadership have their bearing, they probably do exist. However, we'll never know how much, because it's an intangible. You can say anything about an intangible and it can be true, so there is literally no proof for how much it exists. The entire thought process of an intangible meaning something that we can quantify or even qualify is contradictory. The problem I have with intangibles is that people take them far too seriously and overvalue them. His ridiculous competitive nature was what fueled Jordan to become what he was. From getting beat up by his brothers to not making his HS team. It fueled his desire to be the best and run over everyone in his way. If he didnt have that, he may have still been a good NBA player, but not what he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) I'm also not posting once every 12 minutes "He's not going to Miami" like you and Steve. He's not going to Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) I do what I want. If I refuse to give up the Lebronasty in Chicago, I refuse to give it up. I dont care what the reports say, I dont care who's "sources" have told them what. I just cant imagine Lebron giving up his dreams to be on Miami. Maybe he will, maybe Wade smooth talked him into believe that everyone will think Lebron is the greatest. Or that whats most important is a great team. But I just cant see it. I cant see a guy who wants to be MJ playing the role of the follower. Ask the question, What would Michael do? Would Jordan have left the Bulls to play for the Pistons if it meant he would have been guaranteed titles? Would he have played on Thomas's team? Would he have gone to LA to play with Magic and be on Magic's team? No, Michael wanted to be on Michael's team. And until proven otherwise I believe Lebron wants to be on Lebron's team. And that means he has to call the shots, and it means that if he was going to go to Miami, that he would have announced first. He would not have let Bosh/Wade steal his thunder. I could be 100% wrong, but I just dont see it. This is exactly how I feel about the situation. To me the rankings go Bulls, Knicks, Cavs, Heat. Thats the order of teams that give him the best shot at creating the legacy he wants to create. All this media bs is laughable and I find it funny ANYONE buys into it anymore. Its just team LeBron keeping people guessing. It seems most people have decided hes going to Miami and are ruling anything else out. Its really surprising to me because of how little sense it makes. For LeBron winning wont be good enough to be considered where he wants to be as a player, he needs to be the reason the team wins. There is no way anything is getting leaked before he announces it himself. He isnt going to go through all this tight lipped and then switch his llc mailing address to Chicago, fly to Miami or book hotel rooms there or have Chris Paul steal his thunder by becoming a client of Maverick Carter the day of the announcement because he is coming to Cleveland. Lets not leave the Knicks out, so he is allegedly holding the announcement 15 minutes from a Knicks training facility. Again, I may be dead wrong about him but I think its the Knicks or the Bulls and he is going to spend the last 45 minutes pleading with Cleveland to not make him a villain. Talking about how he owes it to himself to chase his dreams, and how hard this decision was. I considered he might sign a 3 year deal in Cleveland but then I couldnt imagine what the last 45 minutes of his show will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I'm a little surprised neither of the hastily made Cleveland tourism videos have made an appearance in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chi Town Sox Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Can we just not use the word sources in this thread anymore? How about we just make a separate thread titled "My sources have said...." and fill in the blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (SHIPPS @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) Some would argue Paxson might have dropped the ball in all of this. Anyone arguing that has problems, honestly. I am absolutely elated that the Bulls made the correct moves to put themselves in position to win the NBA Finals this coming season. If LeBron chooses another location based on something other than basketball, then it's his prerogative. The best team for him to join would be the Bulls as currently assembled. That's all that John Paxson can control, and he's done a great job. That leads me to an interesting point... did I miss the announcement that the Hinrich deal has been made official? Can't that go through now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I want to see him in a Clippers uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Im with others in the camp that Ill almost just be happy with Lebron anywhere but Miami, of course being ecstatic if he does land here. I hope after he makes an announcement that the Bulls instantly make a phone call to Morrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) His ridiculous competitive nature was what fueled Jordan to become what he was. From getting beat up by his brothers to not making his HS team. It fueled his desire to be the best and run over everyone in his way. If he didnt have that, he may have still been a good NBA player, but not what he was. Is it the competitive nature or is it the talent? I'd say the talent. All athletes are competitive. Again, we don't know how better it made Jordan. You can argue all day long about how LeBron has more talent, but doesn't have the competitive fire or something to win a championship. If you compare what Jordan had to what LeBron's had, I think you have your answer for why LeBron hasn't won anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) I'm a little surprised neither of the hastily made Cleveland tourism videos have made an appearance in this thread. I did, about 3 days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) I'm a little surprised neither of the hastily made Cleveland tourism videos have made an appearance in this thread. They have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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