NBA Offseason Thread

[Steve9347]

Yeah, I am in the camp that sticks to the players in that offer. I don't want Noah included. We need his defense and rebounding if Gibson is in the deal.

I would assume that Noah would replace Gibson in the deal, not be added.

 

Personally, I'll drive Joakim to the airport. You don't snub opportunities to acquire 26-year old top 10 NBA players. Other high-energy, no-score centers will come available, more Carmelo Anthony's to pair with D-Rose will not.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I would assume that Noah would replace Gibson in the deal, not be added.

 

Personally, I'll drive Joakim to the airport. You don't snub opportunities to acquire 26-year old top 10 NBA players. Other high-energy, no-score centers will come available, more Carmelo Anthony's to pair with D-Rose will not.

 

 

personally, i am a little hesitant to trade for Carmelo after seeing how poorly Rose played with a dominant scorer on the team like Durant. Rose needs to take his shots to be effective and is not a great playmaker, and does not have the 3 point shooting to compliment Carmelo. Now, maybe the poor performance was a fluke or it had something to do with the FIBA style, but I am not sure if pairing Rose with Carmelo would be a better fit than having Rose and Noah.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Stupid, stupid article here if you want something to laugh at. Yahoo writer has Rose and Durant as the 1st and 2nd most overrated players on his list. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ac-6753654

 

 

LOL the writer's name is JM Van Horn. Who is he? Keith Van Horn's bitter little brother who hates on all the players who can jump higher than Keith?

 

[Kyyle23]

personally, i am a little hesitant to trade for Carmelo after seeing how poorly Rose played with a dominant scorer on the team like Durant. Rose needs to take his shots to be effective and is not a great playmaker, and does not have the 3 point shooting to compliment Carmelo. Now, maybe the poor performance was a fluke or it had something to do with the FIBA style, but I am not sure if pairing Rose with Carmelo would be a better fit than having Rose and Noah.

 

LOL why are you judging Rose so harshly from watching the FIBA games? You have been just killing him all summer long and it really is without merit, its just the FIBA games, those games are exhibition games for NBA players

[Chi Town Sox]

personally, i am a little hesitant to trade for Carmelo after seeing how poorly Rose played with a dominant scorer on the team like Durant. Rose needs to take his shots to be effective and is not a great playmaker, and does not have the 3 point shooting to compliment Carmelo. Now, maybe the poor performance was a fluke or it had something to do with the FIBA style, but I am not sure if pairing Rose with Carmelo would be a better fit than having Rose and Noah.

 

Not sure if you noticed but Durant was the only one on the team to average double figures. Rose had the most assists on the team, no big deal to struggle on a team filled with superstars

[thxfrthmmrs]

LOL why are you judging Rose so harshly from watching the FIBA games? You have been just killing him all summer long and it really is without merit, its just the FIBA games, those games are exhibition games for NBA players

 

Criticism? I don't think so. Rose is clearly not a great playmaker nor a three point shooter, we are well aware of that, so just stating the obvious right there. All I am saying is pairing him with a dominant scorer in the form of Melo might not be a better fit than pairing with a shooter. just like people who said rose and wade will not make a good backcourt, pure analysis

[Kyyle23]

Criticism? I don't think so. Rose is clearly not a great playmaker nor a three point shooter, we are well aware of that, so just stating the obvious right there. All I am saying is pairing him with a dominant scorer in the form of Melo might not be a better fit than pairing with a shooter. just like people who said rose and wade will not make a good backcourt, pure analysis

 

Actually I think you are clearly stating your opinion, as I think he is a dynamic playmaker and every game he seems to get better at what people point out as his weaknesses.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Not sure if you noticed but Durant was the only one on the team to average double figures. Rose had the most assists on the team, no big deal to struggle on a team filled with superstars

 

 

filled with superstars? exactly who besides durant is a superstar? rose was suppose to play second fiddle to durant, and he played so poorly at the end that he had a 0 point game vs in the semis, played only 12 minutes, and was nearly pulled out of the starting lineup in the finals. Bryan Colangelo even said after the win that he felt good for Rose after he scored 3 baskets in the fourth quarter of the finals to get some of his confidence back.

 

After all, it's the FIBAs game, we shouldn't take too much from it. but it's still worth pointing out that he played poorly when playing next to an alpha male.

[RockRaines]

filled with superstars? exactly who besides durant is a superstar? rose was suppose to play second fiddle to durant, and he played so poorly at the end that he had a 0 point game vs in the semis, played only 12 minutes, and was nearly pulled out of the starting lineup in the finals. Bryan Colangelo even said after the win that he felt good for Rose after he scored 3 baskets in the fourth quarter of the finals to get some of his confidence back.

 

After all, it's the FIBAs game, we shouldn't take too much from it. but it's still worth pointing out that he played poorly when playing next to an alpha male.

WTF, alpha male? How about Rose plays great in the NBA on the bulls every game. Doesnt that do enough for you? Durant's presence had nothing to do with anything Rose did in a FIBA tournament. I can say with a 100% certainty that not only with DRose have a great season, but if they added another star to the team, he would have an even better season because they would win.

[kev211]

I would assume that Noah would replace Gibson in the deal, not be added.

 

Personally, I'll drive Joakim to the airport. You don't snub opportunities to acquire 26-year old top 10 NBA players. Other high-energy, no-score centers will come available, more Carmelo Anthony's to pair with D-Rose will not.

^

[thxfrthmmrs]

Actually I think you are clearly stating your opinion, as I think he is a dynamic playmaker and every game he seems to get better at what people point out as his weaknesses.

 

 

I will have to disagree here. From all the bulls games i watched over the past two years (believe me, I watch plenty) and the FIBA games i watched this past month, Rose is clearly not a great playmaker. He is decent but not great. Most of his assists come from dishing to open shooters who would hit the shot or simple passes in transition that lead to easy layups. Rarely do you see him driving into the lane and passing off to someone else for the score, nor do you see him make those tough passes through tight spaces that lead to easy score. he just doesn't court vision of CP3, dwill, nash, kidd, rondo and even westbrook. If you watch guys like Rondo, CP3 and nash run the point and compare it to Rose, it's a whole new world.

 

I do think that Rose is a top 3 or 4 pg right now because he has the unique combination of scoring, athleticism and decent playmaking ability. But come on, you have to accept the fact that he is only a decent play maker RIGHT NOW, not a great one.

[Kyyle23]

I will have to disagree here. From all the bulls games i watched over the past two years (believe me, I watch plenty) and the FIBA games i watched this past month, Rose is clearly not a great playmaker. He is decent but not great. Most of his assists come from dishing to open shooters who would hit the shot or simple passes in transition that lead to easy layups. Rarely do you see him driving into the lane and passing off to someone else for the score, nor do you see him make those tough passes through tight spaces that lead to easy score. he just doesn't court vision of CP3, dwill, nash, kidd, rondo and even westbrook. If you watch guys like Rondo, CP3 and nash run the point and compare it to Rose, it's a whole new world.

 

I do think that Rose is a top 3 or 4 pg right now because he has the unique combination of scoring, athleticism and decent playmaking ability. But come on, you have to accept the fact that he is only a decent play maker RIGHT NOW, not a great one.

 

No I dont. I really disagree with you here, and I will leave it at that. I have watched pretty much all of the Bulls games the past two years myself, and clearly you are watching something else.

[thxfrthmmrs]

WTF, alpha male? How about Rose plays great in the NBA on the bulls every game. Doesnt that do enough for you? Durant's presence had nothing to do with anything Rose did in a FIBA tournament. I can say with a 100% certainty that not only with DRose have a great season, but if they added another star to the team, he would have an even better season because they would win.

 

really? do you have to think again before you make that comment?

 

I am willing to make a bet with you that if we have boozer and carmelo on the team, rose would not even put up numbers like he did last season.

[Balta1701]

I will have to disagree here. From all the bulls games i watched over the past two years (believe me, I watch plenty) and the FIBA games i watched this past month, Rose is clearly not a great playmaker. He is decent but not great. Most of his assists come from dishing to open shooters who would hit the shot or simple passes in transition that lead to easy layups. Rarely do you see him driving into the lane and passing off to someone else for the score, nor do you see him make those tough passes through tight spaces that lead to easy score. he just doesn't court vision of CP3, dwill, nash, kidd, rondo and even westbrook. If you watch guys like Rondo, CP3 and nash run the point and compare it to Rose, it's a whole new world.

 

I do think that Rose is a top 3 or 4 pg right now because he has the unique combination of scoring, athleticism and decent playmaking ability. But come on, you have to accept the fact that he is only a decent play maker RIGHT NOW, not a great one.

2 points.

 

First of all...when they had been in the league for 2 years...I think you could have made exactly this same argument about each and every one of the guys you cite.

 

Secondly...Rondo and Nash both have had vastly better low-post scoring options and all 3 have had much better outside scoring options than what DR1 has had to contend with, particularly last year after Gordon departed. Basically, the question is...if he breaks down into the lane and the defense collapses on him, who does he send the ball of to? Noah isn't very good on the receive and finish, and there really was no one on the Bulls last year who was a legit 3 point threat.

[Balta1701]

I am willing to make a bet with you that if we have boozer and carmelo on the team, rose would not even put up numbers like he did last season.

Hopefully he wouldn't...especially on scoring...because he wouldn't have to.

[thxfrthmmrs]

No I dont. I really disagree with you here, and I will leave it at that. I have watched pretty much all of the Bulls games the past two years myself, and clearly you are watching something else.

 

 

I am well aware that you are a bulls fan, and so am I. but if you watch the game objectively, you will see Rose in terms of playmaking ability is along the lines of Jennings or Evans, decent but not great. If you think Rose is a great playmaker, then what is Rondo, CP3, Dwill and others?

 

Taking nothing away from him, he is a great player, just not a great playmaker. Like you said, passing is his weakness, just accept that. Please go ahead, and read articles from ESPN, Foxsports, or anything like that, and get objective opinions from other writers and fans.

[Kyyle23]

I am well aware that you are a bulls fan, and so am I. but if you watch the game objectively, you will see Rose in terms of playmaking ability is along the lines of Jennings or Evans, decent but not great. If you think Rose is a great playmaker, then what is Rondo, CP3, Dwill and others?

 

Taking nothing away from him, he is a great player, just not a great playmaker. Like you said, passing is his weakness, just accept that. Please go ahead, and read articles from ESPN, Foxsports, or anything like that, and get objective opinions from other writers and fans.

 

Where did I say that passing is his weakness?

 

And if you think ESPN is objective then I have some oceanfront property in Iowa you may be interested in

[thxfrthmmrs]

2 points.

 

First of all...when they had been in the league for 2 years...I think you could have made exactly this same argument about each and every one of the guys you cite.

 

Secondly...Rondo and Nash both have had vastly better low-post scoring options and all 3 have had much better outside scoring options than what DR1 has had to contend with, particularly last year after Gordon departed. Basically, the question is...if he breaks down into the lane and the defense collapses on him, who does he send the ball of to? Noah isn't very good on the receive and finish, and there really was no one on the Bulls last year who was a legit 3 point threat.

 

 

yah yah yah... here it comes the argument of rose doesn't have a good supporting cast, we will see what happens when he plays with boozer.

 

you made your point, some of those guys weren't great playmakers after 2 years. but am I right in saying Rose isn't a great playmaker right now? why can't some people admit that?

 

and one thing, if you say noah is not a good finisher, then what about chandler? we all saw what he can do in chicago. the guy has whopper jr. hands! he can't even grip the ball properly with one hand.

[Balta1701]

and one thing, if you say noah is not a good finisher, then what about chandler? we all saw what he can do in chicago. the guy has whopper jr. hands! he can't even grip the ball properly with one hand.

Not sure how this makes your case, and you'll note I didn't say that CP3 had a low post scoring threat (the best scoring threats he's had around him are David West and occasionally healthy Stojakovic. Chandler showed a noticeable increase in his fg %age 2 of his 3 years in NOK with Paul, but his points/minute never really changed; he was a somewhat more efficient scorer in NOK, but he's basically a 10-12 points in 36 minutes guy his entire career.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Where did I say that passing is his weakness?

 

And if you think ESPN is objective then I have some oceanfront property in Iowa you may be interested in

 

 

i am sorry for misquoting you, you said that some people think was his weakness.

 

but if i were to get an objective opinion from either bulls fans, or espn writers on Rose's game, I would go with ESPN. After all, why would ESPN be biased against Rose? So all the people who said Rose is a not a great playmaker is biased against Rose, except those people from Chicago. great argument.

[RockRaines]

really? do you have to think again before you make that comment?

 

I am willing to make a bet with you that if we have boozer and carmelo on the team, rose would not even put up numbers like he did last season.

No. He wouldnt have to put up numbers if he had two more stars on the team, but that doesnt make him weak or a bad player. Thats the case with every team who has multiple stars. You are saying he showed he cannot produce because of an "Alpha Male" on the team, I am saying he would produce if needed just as well as he has already shown in the NBA.

[Kyyle23]

i am sorry for misquoting you, you said that some people think was his weakness.

 

but if i were to get an objective opinion from either bulls fans, or espn writers on Rose's game, I would go with ESPN. After all, why would ESPN be biased against Rose? So all the people who said Rose is a not a great playmaker is biased against Rose, except those people from Chicago. great argument.

 

I said he gets better at what people point out are his weaknesses, I didnt specify anything.

 

Like I said before, I will disagree with you and leave it at that. Anyone who says that Rose could learn a thing or two from Russell Westbrook doesnt need much prodding to get into a Rose/Playmaker argument

[thxfrthmmrs]

Not sure how this makes your case, and you'll note I didn't say that CP3 had a low post scoring threat (the best scoring threats he's had around him are David West and occasionally healthy Stojakovic. Chandler showed a noticeable increase in his fg %age 2 of his 3 years in NOK with Paul, but his points/minute never really changed; he was a somewhat more efficient scorer in NOK, but he's basically a 10-12 points in 36 minutes guy his entire career.

 

but you do realize that the number of assists paul gets from dishing to chandler is alarmingly high. granted, chandler is a little bit more athletic than noah. same case with lebron and varejao. great playmakers gets assist from dishing to those garbage scorers like chandler, varejao and noah, i just haven't seen much of that with rose

 

granted, paul does have chandler, peja, and west, but with or without chandler or peja, paul still performs the same. and when david west went out for 30 games in 06-07, paul actually increased his assist totals to 10 per game. who did he have again? chandler and peja? that is what you called a great playmaker.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I said he gets better at what people point out are his weaknesses, I didnt specify anything.

 

Like I said before, I will disagree with you and leave it at that. Anyone who says that Rose could learn a thing or two from Russell Westbrook doesnt need much prodding to get into a Rose/Playmaker argument

 

I did say Rose needs to learn from westbrook in terms of utilizing his athleticism, not playmaking ability

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id...ll-be-in-london

 

before the tournament, sheridan has Rose as a lock for the 2012 olympics team, now westbrook makes the cut for him. If anything, westbrook did show that he knows how to play pressure defense and converting into highlight dunks on the other end, and bunny hops for the rebound against bigger guys. I am really not making crap up when i say rose needs to learn from westbrook.

 

Ok i will also leave it like that, there is nothing wrong with being a homer and rooting for your hometown star, but sometimes you also have to see things from a perspective outside of Chicago. Your favorite player does have weaknesses, and for Rose at the momment, that is court vision and great playmaking ability, and hitting the 3 point shot.

Edited September 22, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[southsider2k5]

really? do you have to think again before you make that comment?

 

I am willing to make a bet with you that if we have boozer and carmelo on the team, rose would not even put up numbers like he did last season.

 

And Jordans numbers started to drop once he got a supporting staff. But guess what, those teams won more games, which is really what matters.