Gotta agree with Cowley on this

[Dick Allen]

How stupid is Joe Cowley that he can't figure out that this is a part of Kenny Williams job? I don't ever recall a Joe Cowley article on the plight of the Chicago Sun Times and what their steady spiral down the toilet has done to the quality of his newspaper. Why? BECAUSE IT IS HIS JOB TO SELL NEWSPAPERS, NOT TO BE HONEST. But then again I am sure when his mom tells me that "nothing is wrong" he believes her. Kenny Williams, nor anyone else in the organization, believes half of the stuff that they say on this topic. This is what they have to say. Anyone who can't figure that out deserves the Darwin Award that is in their future.

I agree. KW coming out and telling the world his team sucks isn't going to happen, and it shouldn't happen. Maybe next Soxfest he can say the team sucked, but certainly not in May. The White Sox still have a lot of games to play, they need to sell some tickets, and even if the odds are stacked against them, there is still a chance they can make something of this year. I just wish KW would do something.

 

I hate the KW speeches about his believing in the team as much as anyone, but I would never expect him to tell the truth. We know the truth. We know KW knows the truth. If the show bothers you, don't watch. It was interesting that Cowley, who recently ripped Rogers for watching games on TV instead of in person, wasn't at the park when KW made his speech. He probably was tweeting away in his mom's basement.

[The Ginger Kid]

It's always used as a joke, but the truth is Kenny is a gambler and that means he takes chances and sometimes they don't work. He's made some bad ones of late and those are really hard for me to swallow, but I have to resist the knee-jerk can-his-ass reaction. I see the logic in it, handing the keys over to Hahn or someone else. But I also know that gambler's have streaks, good and bad, and maybe this is just one of those bad ones that I have to ride out. At least I hope so.

[caulfield12]

I don't think we are going to alot of player movement from KW. He likes his young players and will keep them. The only trading you will see is:

 

AJ and PK because they will be free agents and he was going to let them go anyway.

 

Jones if he is playing well enough to get the Sox anything.

 

Jenks because KW really likes Santos.

 

Garcia if he continues to do well.

 

Pena, Linebrink, Vizquel should be gone but no one will want them.

 

He won't trade Danks,

 

Floyd isn't doing well enough with the contract to trade

 

Peavy is being paid far too much with his current performance

 

I really can't see him wanting to trade anyone else so there maybe 3-4 trades at the most.

 

 

Pena's not going anywhere, he was acquired for Brandon Allen...those types of trades, KW doesn't cut bait on very quickly (until he's proven the wisdom of such a move)....Swisher was one of the big exceptions.

 

If you look at all the success of former Sox hurlers around the league, it's not like the guy is chopper liver. He has a very nice arm. Maybe he'll never be the 8th inning RH set-up guy or even the 7th innning Dotel, but he's not the reason our ballclub is struggling.

 

 

Just read the article. This is the dumbest article I have ever read.

 

It's almost like he's channeling Mariotti, he has this personal vendetta to stir up trouble, he's been waiting all these months (and years) to write this dump on KW and Ozzie story, so the 16-24 record finally justified it.

 

I supposed the biggest "revelation" (and I seriously felt like this was one of those TMZ "hit" pieces or one of the many written about Tiger Woods from November through February) is about Ozney's Twitter tweets and Ozzie simultaneously bolting the clubhouse (they day he had to fire his son) and finally Ibis talking to KW.

 

Maybe there's something to the "rift" in the organization spilling over into a bad clubhouse environment. Maybe there's a split because of the coaches and FO staff that went out on a limb about Teahen and Pierre? Maybe there's also a split over what to do with Beckham and AJ/Flowers, too.

 

I do think it's curious that Cowley goes out of his way to assign "blame" for the roster construction 96% on KW, and the 4% would be Mark Kotsay's spot (and him being retained over Thome, who apparently KW wanted to bring back and changed his mind about spontaneously at SoxTalk under questioning from the fans about the lack of offensive potential with the currently-constructed line-up).

 

His mea culpa isn't owed to the media (especially), to the casual fans, to the message board world....it's owed to the season ticket holders, corporate partners/sponsors and JR. I don't think hearing it is going to have one scintilla of effect, to tell the truth. Will it make us go on a winning streak? Increase the walk up sales? This whole thing is silly.

Edited May 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

It's always used as a joke, but the truth is Kenny is a gambler and that means he takes chances and sometimes they don't work. He's made some bad ones of late and those are really hard for me to swallow, but I have to resist the knee-jerk can-his-ass reaction. I see the logic in it, handing the keys over to Hahn or someone else. But I also know that gambler's have streaks, good and bad, and maybe this is just one of those bad ones that I have to ride out. At least I hope so.

 

I will say KW for some reason was never given any responsibility with the Dave Wilder situation. That's one piece of history for which he should have had some accountablity. The prospects were suspects. He was paying way too much. Wilder was his buddy and he promoted him. That whole thing was really swept under the rug pretty well. I wonder if KW's star is still shining bright for JR. I know JR is very loyal but some bad teams, a scandal, and a payroll a lot higher than the results would indicate, may have JR at least questioning KW from time to time.

[caulfield12]

I will say KW for some reason was never given any responsibility with the Dave Wilder situation. That's one piece of history for which he should have had some accountablity. The prospects were suspects. He was paying way too much. Wilder was his buddy and he promoted him. That whole thing was really swept under the rug pretty well. I wonder if KW's star is still shining bright for JR. I know JR is very loyal but some bad teams, a scandal, and a payroll a lot higher than the results would indicate, may have JR at least questioning KW from time to time.

 

 

Certainly Paxson assaulting VDN has to be worse, doesn't it?

 

The Wilder and Dominican scouts situation was a bad (and embarassing one), but it doesn't come close to stacking up against what was going on in the Nationals' front office at that same time with Bowden and Jose "Blame It On" Rijo.

 

 

[nitetrain8601]

Only interesting part was about Ibis trying to defend Oney because Ozzie bolted the premises. Either way, that's too much family there. Keep that poop at home.

[WCSox]

If we're going to suck anyways, why not just let Lucy and Castro split duties? What do we lose out on?

 

If I'm Kenny, that's exactly what I do. That $4M will help mitigate the financial impact of the lack of butts in the seats later this season.

 

[caulfield12]

If I'm Kenny, that's exactly what I do. That $4M will help mitigate the financial impact of the lack of butts in the seats later this season.

 

One way or the other, KW's hand isn't really forced.

 

If AJ can get on a hot streak the next 2-3 weeks and/or a catcher goes down to injury with one of the major contenders, we can actually get something back besides salary relief (not Santana, Nathan and Bonser, though, haha).

 

If he's traded, we can 1) play Flowers or 2) play Lucy and Castro.

 

If Flowers is put at DH for 2011, then they'll know exactly what they have in Lucy/Castro/Armstrong at the big league level.

[iamshack]

One way or the other, KW's hand isn't really forced.

 

If AJ can get on a hot streak the next 2-3 weeks and/or a catcher goes down to injury with one of the major contenders, we can actually get something back besides salary relief (not Santana, Nathan and Bonser, though, haha).

 

If he's traded, we can 1) play Flowers or 2) play Lucy and Castro.

 

If Flowers is put at DH for 2011, then they'll know exactly what they have in Lucy/Castro/Armstrong at the big league level.

You mean Liriano.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, Santana was Rule 5 pick of the decade, I think from the Astros.

[kitekrazy]

What good is salary relief for this organization? We have more years of Mark Teahan because of it.

This team also got older this season.

 

Waddya bet 5 years from now Kenny Williams signs Tori Hunter only because he wanted Tori Hunter?

 

Note to Kenny: NL talent

[ThunderBolt]

I believe we're the oldest team in the A.L. and the third oldest team in the majors. A lot of that has to do with Omar Vizquel.

[elrockinMT]

What good is salary relief for this organization? We have more years of Mark Teahan because of it.

This team also got older this season.

 

Waddya bet 5 years from now Kenny Williams signs Tori Hunter only because he wanted Tori Hunter?

 

Note to Kenny: NL talent

 

 

That is exactly what I have said before and others also. KW gets someone on his mind and he will sign that guy eventually. Torii Hunter couold be in a wheelchair by then but he will still sign him just cause he always wanted the guy

[WCSox]

What good is salary relief for this organization?

 

While it may seem meager in the context of a $100M payroll, any business with declining revenue would want to save $4M. That doesn't mean deal AJ at all costs or anything, but the financial benefit is definitely there.

 

[scenario]

I believe we're the oldest team in the A.L. and the third oldest team in the majors. A lot of that has to do with Omar Vizquel.

 

 

Not a chance.

 

We have ONE player on the roster over 35 (who is a bench player).

And only 4 starting position players over 30.

 

The Yankees have 7 players over 35 on the roster.

And 6 starting position players over 30

 

The RedSox have 3 players over 35 including 43 year old Tim Wakefield.

And 6 starting position players over 30

 

I could keep digging but I'm not sure I have to.

A quick review of rosters suggests there's quite a few teams with older players (and starters) than us.

Edited May 22, 2010 by scenario

[joeynach]

Yeah, I mean every little bit counts, I suppose.

 

AJ is an extremely difficult player to trade, IMO. He's going to be one of those players that is missed much more so when he's gone than he has been appreciated while he was here, at least in the last few years, anyways (I know many people appreciate his contributions in 05'-06'). He also is going to scare a lot of potential suitors away with his behavior, even though I think the fact that he has gotten along well with his teammates (as opposed to his issues with Brett Tomko in SF) will help.

 

He's probably not going to net you in trade what he should be worth, especially with his poor start to this season, and so you have to look at the cost savings, as you said, and then more at the indirect results of what his departure would probably mean for the rest of the ballclub. His veteran leadership behind the plate and in the dugout will be missed. His durability will be greatly missed. His knowledge of the game will be missed. And his fire will be missed. But on the other side of that coin (as the Hawkeroo would say), trading him would send a message to the team and to the fanbase (albeit different messages, possibly), it would give Flowers a few months to start getting accustomed to our pitching staff (and for them to get accustomed to him), and it would give us an idea of what kind of backup we might need to bring in for next season.

 

So I guess the question becomes, does the cost savings justify those indirect results, or possibly buttress them even? Or does the cost savings not stack up to all those results, given that some of them could be seen as negative?

 

Its the game calling aspect of his game that will be missed. Our pitchers have said over and over that they owe much of their success to AJs preparation and game calling. Its one of those intangibles that if traded will truly hurt this team.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Not a chance.

 

We have ONE player on the roster over 35 (who is a bench player).

And only 4 starting position players over 30.

 

The Yankees have 7 players over 35 on the roster.

And 6 starting position players over 30

 

The RedSox have 3 players over 35 including 43 year old Tim Wakefield.

And 6 starting position players over 30

 

I could keep digging but I'm not sure I have to.

A quick review of rosters suggests there's quite a few teams with older players (and starters) than us.

I actually took that from the Marlins broadcast last night so it appears their onscreen graphic was wrong. The average age of a White Sox player is 30.1 the average age of a Red Sox palyer is 30.7, and the average age of a Yankee is 30.8. Still not as sizeable a difference as you’d think and we are up there in age. I think the stat is actually that we're the third oldest team in the A.L.

[Balta1701]

I actually took that from the Marlins broadcast last night so it appears their onscreen graphic was wrong. The average age of a White Sox player is 30.1 the average age of a Red Sox palyer is 30.7, and the average age of a Yankee is 30.8. Still not as sizeable a difference as you’d think and we are up there in age. I think the stat is actually that we're the third oldest team in the A.L.

And if Omar Vizquel gets cut and replaced by say, Retherford at some point...the average age would decline from 30.1 to 29.2.

 

"Average" really isn't telling you what you want to know there. What you actually want to look at for this comparison is either the average age of the most common starters or perhaps the median age.

[scenario]

I actually took that from the Marlins broadcast last night so it appears their onscreen graphic was wrong. The average age of a White Sox player is 30.1 the average age of a Red Sox palyer is 30.7, and the average age of a Yankee is 30.8. Still not as sizeable a difference as you’d think and we are up there in age. I think the stat is actually that we're the third oldest team in the A.L.

 

You have to look at the makeup of the team too.

 

Most of our 'age' is in the bullpen...

Linebrink 33

Putz 33

Thornton 33

Randy William 34

 

Or reserve players...

Vizquel 43

Castro 34

Kotsay 34

 

Two areas where age doesn't have the negative impact it does with starting players.

 

There are quite a few teams with aging lineups and starting rotations.

And we are not one of them.