Phillies scouting Jenks and Putz

[Lillian]

Precisely.

 

 

 

Aaron Poreda has been converted to a reliever. He currently has a K:BB of 19:21 in 20 innings in AA.

Dexter Carter has a put up a BB/9 of 6, K/9 of 8, and a HR/9 of 1.3 in 56 innings for the Padres' A-ball affiliate.

Adam Russell is a mediocre reliever.

 

That leaves Clayton Richard as the only piece of the deal that has hurt the White Sox in any way, shape, or form. Considering his mediocre peripherals (1.36 WHIP, 3.5 BB/9, 6.6 K/9, all of which fall in line with his career norms) and his unsustainably low HR rate of 0.2 HR/9 (where he is at 1 HR/9 throughout his entire career), I would say that Richard is not only likely but is bound to regress toward his career averages sooner rather than later.

 

Just to prove the point...Clayton Richard put up a 4.65 ERA with the Sox last year and a 4.08 ERA with the Padres. His ERA+ with the White Sox was 100 and his ERA+ with the Padres was 91. That means that, due to ballpark disparities and the general inferiority of the National League, Clayton Richard's 4.65 ERA with the White Sox was better and more valuable than his 4.08 ERA with the Padres. Just wrap your mind around that for a minute.

 

---

 

At the end of the day, by suggesting you regret the deal, you are stating that you'd rather have Clayton Richard, Adam Russell, Dexter Carter, and Aaron Poreda - 4 very mediocre arms who are afterthoughts in other organizations - than Jake Peavy, who has a legitimate arm and is, at the very least, a generally damn good pitcher. I know which of those two groups I am picking, and I'm not going to let a month and a half of baseball fool my judgment.

 

My response to your post is the same as it is to anyone defending the Peavy trade. It's all about the money!!!

He has to pitch like an Ace, not a "generally damn good pitcher". See how you feel in a couple of years when the Sox are obligated to give him $17 million for his last year of the contract, and face either giving him $22 million the following year, or having to buy him out for $ 4 milliion.

A contract like that only makes sense for an Ace, or some other legitimate "impact" player. I just don't envision him as that kind of pitcher in the A.L., especially at U.S. Cellular.

[witesoxfan]

If Jake Peavy, throughout his tenure with the White Sox, ends up with an ERA of around 3.50 or lower, it will be a good trade. That, at the very, very least, qualifies him as a damn good #2 and really, it qualifies him as an ace pitcher. I'm hoping he ends up with an ERA of 3.25 in his career as a Sox pitcher with about 45-50 wins, but I don't think he's going to be anywhere near as bad as he's been in his 9 starts this season.

[jphat007]

If Jake Peavy, throughout his tenure with the White Sox, ends up with an ERA of around 3.50 or lower, it will be a good trade. That, at the very, very least, qualifies him as a damn good #2 and really, it qualifies him as an ace pitcher. I'm hoping he ends up with an ERA of 3.25 in his career as a Sox pitcher with about 45-50 wins, but I don't think he's going to be anywhere near as bad as he's been in his 9 starts this season.

 

We're not paying him to have around a 3.50 ERA. IF you are investing huge assests (in this case money) in him, one that could fix other holes, he has to be really damn good, like Rios has been this year. Seeing as how nobody would take Jake Peavy right now, all we cna do is hope he turns it around like Rios did this year.

Edited May 26, 2010 by jphat007

[hogan873]

Please, the guy has had, what, 12 starts since he's been here? We're nowhere near the point of contract albatross. And the comparison to Zambrano is laughable. If you guys really think Peavy is suddenly a 6+ERA pitcher, have at it. Just save all the "I'm happily eating crow" bulls*** once he turns it around. And unless there's a physical issue, he will.

Yeah, he's not suddenly a bad pitcher. Like I mentioned before, I'm inclined to believe that his issues are mental. I'm pretty sure he'll turn it around...at least I'm holding out hope.

[NorthSideSox72]

We're not paying him to have around a 3.50 ERA. IF you are investing huge assests (in this case money) in him, one that could fix other holes, he has to be really damn good, like Rios has been this year. Seeing as how nobody would take Jake Peavy right now, all we cna do is hope he turns it around like Rios did this year.

Not sure if you noticed, but a consistently 3.50 ERA starting pitcher IS really damn good. If you are looking for a guy to put up a 3.00 over multiple years (say 3 or more), you are looking at how many pitchers in baseball? Maybe 2 or 3 in the whole game?

 

[jphat007]

Not sure if you noticed, but a consistently 3.50 ERA starting pitcher IS really damn good. If you are looking for a guy to put up a 3.00 over multiple years (say 3 or more), you are looking at how many pitchers in baseball? Maybe 2 or 3 in the whole game?

 

Usually 6-10 pitchers have ERAs sub 3.50 in the AL each year. (didn't even bother with NL but I'm sure it's more). If he's making 16+ mil a year, he better be one of those guys.

[Kalapse]

Not sure if you noticed, but a consistently 3.50 ERA starting pitcher IS really damn good. If you are looking for a guy to put up a 3.00 over multiple years (say 3 or more), you are looking at how many pitchers in baseball? Maybe 2 or 3 in the whole game?

5 starters in baseball put up an ERA below 3.10 with at least 500 IP between '07 and '09 (3 pitched the majority of their innings in the AL), 5 AL starts put up a sub 3.50 ERA over that same time span. (11 in baseball)

[Leonard Zelig]

Precisely.

 

Can you explain this a little more? I mean I understand that its more difficult to pitch in the AL because of the DH, but with the frequency that players move from team to team, I don't get calling the entire league inferior.

 

 

[Lillian]

If Jake Peavy, throughout his tenure with the White Sox, ends up with an ERA of around 3.50 or lower, it will be a good trade. That, at the very, very least, qualifies him as a damn good #2 and really, it qualifies him as an ace pitcher. I'm hoping he ends up with an ERA of 3.25 in his career as a Sox pitcher with about 45-50 wins, but I don't think he's going to be anywhere near as bad as he's been in his 9 starts this season.

 

Oh sure, if he produces like that, and stays healthy, I would think that most of us would be happy. Unfortunately, I don't share your confidence in his ability to do that. However, since no one is likely to take him and that contract, we'll all just have to hope that you're right.

[WCSox]

That's all a shame because this guy will be earning an "Ace's" salary for the next 3 years, and I don't think he'll ever be the Ace of the staff.

 

Mark Buehrle is getting paid an ace's salary and has been almost as bad this year. Where's the indignant outrage over his performance?

 

If he does become the Ace, it will probably only be because everyone else is so bad.

 

Peavy won a Cy Young 2 1/2 years ago and was lights-out for us last year. So I don't see where the excessive pessimism is coming from.

 

If you're a GM, you're looking for a veteran starter to help put your team over the top, Jake Peavy is available, your owner gives you the green light, and all that the other team wants in return is Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and a couple mediocre prospects, you do that freaking deal. If you don't, you're not doing your job.

 

We could use that money to resign Danks to a longer term contract, which he seems reluctant to do.

 

With PK and AJ coming off the books this year and MB and Linebrink coming off the books next year, available funds to re-sign Danks aren't the problem. The problem is that Danks isn't interested in signing a contract extension. In other words, Jake Peavy isn't going to cost us a chance at extending Danks.

 

[Lillian]

Mark Buehrle is getting paid an ace's salary and has been almost as bad this year. Where's the indignant outrage over his performance?

 

Peavy won a Cy Young 2 1/2 years ago and was lights-out for us last year. So I don't see where the excessive pessimism is coming from.

 

If you're a GM, you're looking for a veteran starter to help put your team over the top, Jake Peavy is available, your owner gives you the green light, and all that the other team wants in return is Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and a couple mediocre prospects, you do that freaking deal. If you don't, you're not doing your job.

 

With PK and AJ coming off the books this year and MB and Linebrink coming off the books next year, available funds to re-sign Danks aren't the problem. The problem is that Danks isn't interested in signing a contract extension. In other words, Jake Peavy isn't going to cost us a chance at extending Danks.

 

Yes, now that you mention it, I'm not thrilled with Buehrle either. The difference is that his contract is up at the end of the year.

 

I haven't leveled any criticism at K.W. I'm the first to admit that I was excited when the Sox acquired Peavy. However, that doesn't change my dissatisfaction with Peavy and his contract, now that I've seen what we have with him.

 

Yes, I understand that Danks is reluctant to extend his contract, but one way or another the Peavy contract will greatly inhibit flexibility with the payroll.

[Balta1701]

Mark Buehrle is getting paid an ace's salary and has been almost as bad this year. Where's the indignant outrage over his performance?

Buehrle's ERA is 4.38 right now. Peavy's is 6.05. Neither of them are pitching like aces, but only 1 of those would get removed from a rotation if it was done by a rookie.

[Kalapse]

Yes, now that you mention it, I'm not thrilled with Buehrle either. The difference is that his contract is up at the end of the year.

After 2011

[WCSox]

I'm the first to admit that I was excited when the Sox acquired Peavy. However, that doesn't change my dissatisfaction with Peavy and his contract, now that I've seen what we have with him.

 

Yes, I understand that Danks is reluctant to extend his contract, but one way or another the Peavy contract will greatly inhibit flexibility with the payroll.

 

Peavy has pitched for the Sox for the equivalent of less than half a season, and you're already predicting that he'll be a useless financial albatross. Being disappointed with a small sample size is understandable, but extrapolating a doom-and-gloom scenario based on that sample size makes little sense to me.

 

[southsider2k5]

Peavy has pitched for the Sox for the equivalent of less than half a season, and you're already predicting that he'll be a useless financial albatross. Being disappointed with a small sample size is understandable, but extrapolating a doom-and-gloom scenario based on that sample size makes little sense to me.

 

Basically a quarter of a season.

[witesoxfan]

Can you explain this a little more? I mean I understand that its more difficult to pitch in the AL because of the DH, but with the frequency that players move from team to team, I don't get calling the entire league inferior.

 

Hyperbole, but the entire league really is inferior. There is a reason that a guy like Carlos Silva gets absolutely destroyed in the AL and can go to the NL and pitch well.

[NorthSideSox72]

5 starters in baseball put up an ERA below 3.10 with at least 500 IP between '07 and '09 (3 pitched the majority of their innings in the AL), 5 AL starts put up a sub 3.50 ERA over that same time span. (11 in baseball)

So I was close (5 vs 3). Its silly to say that a 3.50 ERA over any 3 season span for a starter is anything other than very good. And 3.00 is perennial Cy Young contender territory.

 

[Kalapse]

So I was close (5 vs 3). Its silly to say that a 3.50 ERA over any 3 season span for a starter is anything other than very good. And 3.00 is perennial Cy Young contender territory.

Josh Beckett has a 4.22 ERA in the American League (4.05 coming into this year) and people won't shut the f*** up about how great he is.

[WCSox]

Josh Beckett has a 4.22 ERA in the American League (4.05 coming into this year) and people won't shut the f*** up about how great he is.

 

Winning two WS and being an absolute bad-ass in both of those post-season series will do that to one's reputation. But I agree in general. Dude's injury-prone and wildly-erratic at times.

Edited May 26, 2010 by WCSox

[knightni]

I bet the Phillies liked what they saw today.

[witesoxfan]

I bet the Phillies liked what they saw today.

 

Jenks proved he can work his way out of a jam as well as anyone. I mean, bases loaded, 1 out, up by 1, and he got the next two guys out. What a clutch performer.

[Kalapse]

Jenks proved he can work his way out of a jam as well as anyone. I mean, bases loaded, 1 out, up by 1, and he got the next two guys out. What a clutch performer.

He actually put those 6 runners on base on purpose just to show dominant he can be in the clutch. I know I was impressed.

[witesoxfan]

He actually put those 6 runners on base on purpose just to show dominant he can be in the clutch. I know I was impressed.

 

He needed to get to the top of the order to prove that he can get good hitters out while letting hitters at the bottom of the order and off the bench get a little confidence to make them feel better about their baseball abilities and maybe make it someday in this sport. Not only is he a great reliever, but he's a great philanthropist too.

[Kalapse]

He needed to get to the top of the order to prove that he can get good hitters out while letting hitters at the bottom of the order and off the bench get a little confidence to make them feel better about their baseball abilities and maybe make it someday in this sport. Not only is he a great reliever, but he's a great philanthropist too.

Just look at who he retired: their number #1, #3 and #4 hitters, what's more impressive than that? And to speak to your philanthropy point; the last 2 guys he retired have a combined 22 years of major league experience under their belts no real need to lift their spirits.

[dyuen]

did anybody think at this time last year that contreras would end up being a better closer than jenks?