Phillies scouting Jenks and Putz

[Jordan4life_2007]

did anybody think at this time last year that contreras would end up being a better closer than jenks?

 

Jose Contreras has infinitely better stuff than Bobby. Not surprising at all.

[Balta1701]

Jose Contreras has infinitely better stuff than Bobby.

Really? Between Jenks hitting 97-98 and the curveball he used to throw up there, plus Jenks's previously demonstrated ability to not only throw cut fastballs for strikes but to change speeds on stuff...the only pitch I'd say would set Jose apart is the forkball.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Can you explain this a little more? I mean I understand that its more difficult to pitch in the AL because of the DH, but with the frequency that players move from team to team, I don't get calling the entire league inferior.

 

Javier Vazquez.

 

/the end

[Jordan4life_2007]

Really? Between Jenks hitting 97-98 and the curveball he used to throw up there, plus Jenks's previously demonstrated ability to not only throw cut fastballs for strikes but to change speeds on stuff...the only pitch I'd say would set Jose apart is the forkball.

 

It could be just me. But I don't think for a second Jenks is throwing that hard, despite what the guns are saying. I've seen 97-98. If Bobby's throwing that hard, guys like Jonathan Broxton and Brian Wilson are throwing 103.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Jordan4life

[SoxAce]

It could be just me.

 

Yes it is.

[Balta1701]

It could be just me. But I don't think for a second Jenks is throwing that hard, despite what the guns are saying. I've seen 97-98. If Bobby's throwing that hard, guys like Jonathan Broxton and Brian Wilson are throwing 103.

If it was only 1 ballpark, I'd agree, but he's been there consistently this last month.

[Heads22]

I love how people are talking about Peavy the exact same way they talked about Rios.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If it was only 1 ballpark, I'd agree, but he's been there consistently this last month.

 

Then Bobby's got the least intimidating 97-98 MPH FB I've seen this year. Either way, he sucks. I'd rather have '03 Billy Koch or '05 Shingo.

[WCSox]

Then Bobby's got the least intimidating 97-98 MPH FB I've seen this year. Either way, he sucks. I'd rather have '03 Billy Koch or '05 Shingo.

 

I wouldn't. And that's saying a lot.

 

[Kalapse]

It could be just me. But I don't think for a second Jenks is throwing that hard, despite what the guns are saying. I've seen 97-98. If Bobby's throwing that hard, guys like Jonathan Broxton and Brian Wilson are throwing 103.

pitchFX has him right there at 96 again today (98 on Saturday) as it has most of the year, I don't see why the cameras would be off for Jenks but right on for Pena (94/95) and Thornton (96/97). It just goes to show you that velocity really means very little when your control and movement are s*** and your offspeed pitches are mediocre to non-existent.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I wouldn't. And that's saying a lot.

 

I'm exaggerating (a little). I just can't wait to read Bobby's post-game comments. You know he's going to spin today's debacle as just some flukish occurrence and that he ultimately got the save. All he's done is make excuses for his below average performance the last years and two months.

 

 

pitchFX has him right there at 96 again today (98 on Saturday) as it has most of the year, I don't see why the cameras would be off for Jenks but right on for Pena (94/95) and Thornton (96/97). It just goes to show you that velocity really means very little when your control and movement are s*** and your offspeed pitches are mediocre to non-existent.

 

I can't argue the numbers. He just doesn't appear to be throwing that hard. I tune into Dodgers/Giants games whenever they're leading after 8. You don't need any gun to see that Broxton and Wilson are consistently hitting 98 MPH. If not for a gun, you would think Bobby was topping out at 93-94.

[elrockinMT]

I love how people are talking about Peavy the exact same way they talked about Rios.

 

Interesting point

[witesoxfan]

I can't argue the numbers. He just doesn't appear to be throwing that hard. I tune into Dodgers/Giants games whenever they're leading after 8. You don't need any gun to see that Broxton and Wilson are consistently hitting 98 MPH. If not for a gun, you would think Bobby was topping out at 93-94.

 

I remember seeing Politte live in 04, and he was hitting 98 on the Metrodome radar. He looked like he was throwing about 92. Just as some guys appear to be throwing harder than they are for whatever reasons, some guys also appear to not be throwing as hard as they really are for whatever reason.

[WCSox]

I'm exaggerating (a little). I just can't wait to read Bobby's post-game comments. You know he's going to spin today's debacle as just some flukish occurrence and that he ultimately got the save. All he's done is make excuses for his below average performance the last years and two months.

 

Agreed. He's also ignored the organization's multiple requests to slim down and stay in shape, to the point where Kenny called him out in the press late last year. Regardless of Bobby's price tag, I'm glad that he'll be gone next year. No matter how talented, players with that attitude will fail you in the end.

 

[greg775]

I love how people are talking about Peavy the exact same way they talked about Rios.

 

Good point, but when you are making that kind of money and failing it's tough to not take shots at them.

For instance, some of us thought last year that the acquisition of Rios might put us over the hump to win the division and then we allegedly with Peavy returning in September had a rotation made for the postseason.

The fact Rios was absolutely miserable at the plate and the fact we did not come close to winning the division made him an easy target.

 

Now this year, Peavy is supposed to be our big time ace and he's been pretty bad.

I think this year's team is so much worse on paper than last year's that Peavy shouldn't be roasted as much as Rios last year.

Rios was supposed to be our big big acquisition that was going to help us squeak out a division title and set us up for October.

 

Those of you who stuck with Rios deserve credit because a fresh start in April is apparently what he needed.

What is it that Peavy needs? The all star break to regroup?

Edited May 26, 2010 by greg775

[fathom]

Good point, but when you are making that kind of money and failing it's tough to not take shots at them.

For instance, some of us thought last year that the acquisition of Rios might put us over the hump to win the division and then we allegedly with Peavy returning in September had a rotation made for the postseason.

The fact Rios was absolutely miserable at the plate and the fact we did not come close to winning the division made him an easy target.

 

Now this year, Peavy is supposed to be our big time ace and he's been pretty bad.

I think this year's team is so much worse on paper than last year's that Peavy shouldn't be roasted as much as Rios last year.

Rios was supposed to be our big big acquisition that was going to help us squeak out a division title and set us up for October.

 

Those of you who stuck with Rios deserve credit because a fresh start in April is apparently what he needed.

What is it that Peavy needs? The all star break to regroup?

 

He needs a league where he can make bad pitches and not get punished as much as he has. There's no breathing room in the AL, and I thought it was only fitting that a #9 hitter bombed one off of him.

[Kalapse]

Good point, but when you are making that kind of money and failing it's tough to not take shots at them.

For instance, some of us thought last year that the acquisition of Rios might put us over the hump to win the division and then we allegedly with Peavy returning in September had a rotation made for the postseason.

The fact Rios was absolutely miserable at the plate and the fact we did not come close to winning the division made him an easy target.

 

Now this year, Peavy is supposed to be our big time ace and he's been pretty bad.

I think this year's team is so much worse on paper than last year's that Peavy shouldn't be roasted as much as Rios last year.

Rios was supposed to be our big big acquisition that was going to help us squeak out a division title and set us up for October.

 

Those of you who stuck with Rios deserve credit because a fresh start in April is apparently what he needed.

What is it that Peavy needs? The all star break to regroup?

Not really. That Rios acquisition was almost 100% for the future. You don't really acquire a scuffling 28 year old CF with 5 years left on his deal for a title run. You pick him up because you're pretty damn sure with a change of scenery and a little time things will turn around he'll solidify your club's CF position for the foreseeable future. But most importantly: we didn't seek him out (though KW had inquired about him before), the only reason he was made available to us at the time was because the Blue Jays were hoping to dump his contract, if they hadn't put him on waivers he almost definitely wouldn't be on our team right now. It was a shrewd move meant to put an end to our annual CF turnstile.

[greg775]

But I thought at the time it was popular perception in the media we got Rios to win the division. And you have to admit there was a popular perception that if all went well with Peavy our rotation looked good for the playoffs.

 

I know what you are saying though. That is all good analysis of the situation.

[Milkman delivers]

I love how people are talking about Peavy the exact same way they talked about Rios.

 

I don't. It means that they were both greatly underachieving for a good amount of time. Two months is a good amount of time in baseball, I'd say.