fathom Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2010 -> 06:55 PM) I'm talking about the fans undervaluing their own. Lot of bashing of Rowand and people who thought we could do better in cf even though it was a wasteland until this year's version of Rios. Lot of people bagged on Thome even though he'd be way better than this year's piece of s*** DH by committee and lousy lineup. Just cause someone is better than the replacements we brought in doesn't mean that person was actually good. Rowand was not a good baseball player in 2005 with the White Sox. My new boss at work stinks, but it doesn't mean my old boss that got fired should be held in higher regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) I'm talking about the fans undervaluing their own. Lot of bashing of Rowand and people who thought we could do better in cf even though it was a wasteland until this year's version of Rios. Lot of people bagged on Thome even though he'd be way better than this year's piece of s*** DH by committee and lousy lineup. It was time to give Anderson his shot. Same thing with Fields. They didn't work out, but that's what you have to do. You can't keep giving all of your players raises, its just is not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) Just cause someone is better than the replacements we brought in doesn't mean that person was actually good. Rowand was not a good baseball player in 2005 with the White Sox. My new boss at work stinks, but it doesn't mean my old boss that got fired should be held in higher regard. That's pretty ridiculous. He was incredible covering ground in CF that year and put up league average slash stats for his position all while making $2M, there's a ton of value in what Rowand gave the Sox in '05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) Excuse me? QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:44 PM) Know your Phillies coaching staff. haha my bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Rowand was not a good baseball player in 2005 with the White Sox. My new boss at work stinks, but it doesn't mean my old boss that got fired should be held in higher regard. Undervaluing your own. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:27 PM) Undervaluing your own. I rest my case. this closing argument is really funny if I give you Michael Scotts voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 24, 2010 -> 07:04 PM) That's pretty ridiculous. He was incredible covering ground in CF that year and put up league average slash stats for his position all while making $2M, there's a ton of value in what Rowand gave the Sox in '05. And he totally hit the wall down the stretch of the season, was a year away from free agency, and the organization thought that he wasn't going to improve for various reasons. His defense was so overrated, IMO. Anderson and Rios make him look like Jermaine Dye out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) And he totally hit the wall down the stretch of the season, was a year away from free agency, and the organization thought that he wasn't going to improve for various reasons. His defense was so overrated, IMO. Anderson and Rios make him look like Jermaine Dye out there. He struggles to judge a fly ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) And he totally hit the wall down the stretch of the season, was a year away from free agency, and the organization thought that he wasn't going to improve for various reasons. His defense was so overrated, IMO. Anderson and Rios make him look like Jermaine Dye out there. Not to mention if you look at the contract Rowand ended up getting, you have to realize that we would have lost him for nothing. We got Jim Thome for him. The Sox were win-win when it came to Aaron Rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2010 -> 12:55 PM) Not to mention if you look at the contract Rowand ended up getting, you have to realize that we would have lost him for nothing. We got Jim Thome for him. The Sox were win-win when it came to Aaron Rowand. Rowand hasn't touched an OPS+ of 100 since getting that $60M deal. Kenny >> Sabean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 24, 2010 -> 01:28 PM) He just needs a Dubee to set his mind right. Michael Dubee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:02 PM) Rowand hasn't touched an OPS+ of 100 since getting that $60M deal. Kenny >> Sabean Rios pwns Rowand out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) And he totally hit the wall down the stretch of the season, was a year away from free agency, and the organization thought that he wasn't going to improve for various reasons. His defense was so overrated, IMO. Anderson and Rios make him look like Jermaine Dye out there. From 2003 to 2005, Rowand posted a combined UZR of +36.6 in 390 games and 2889.2 innings. That's a UZR/150 of 17.1, which is definitely elite. I don't think his defense was overrated when he was with the Sox at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) And he totally hit the wall down the stretch of the season, was a year away from free agency, and the organization thought that he wasn't going to improve for various reasons. His defense was so overrated, IMO. Anderson and Rios make him look like Jermaine Dye out there. His UZR and plus/minus numbers were unreal (at least in '05 his PM was awesome) during his stretch with the Sox, I don't think he was overrated at all. And I have and had no problem dumping him for Thome I just don't want to downplay how valuable he was to the '05 club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) Michael Dubee? Rich Dubee is the Phillies' pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 24, 2010 -> 09:13 PM) From 2003 to 2005, Rowand posted a combined UZR of +36.6 in 390 games and 2889.2 innings. That's a UZR/150 of 17.1, which is definitely elite. I don't think his defense was overrated when he was with the Sox at all... He struggled mightily the last few months of that season offensively and defensively. He misjudged numerous important fly balls, seemingly whenever Jenks was on the mound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:02 PM) Rowand hasn't touched an OPS+ of 100 since getting that $60M deal. Kenny >> Sabean Agreed 1000%. We got the best years out of Aaron, and got rid of him before he got expensive. We also got an elite hitter for him. I don't see the problem with anything in how Rowand's career arc proceeded with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2010 -> 09:21 PM) Agreed 1000%. We got the best years out of Aaron, and got rid of him before he got expensive. We also got an elite hitter for him. I don't see the problem with anything in how Rowand's career arc proceeded with the Sox. Exactly, a lot of times we complain that KW doesn't sell high on players, but he definitely sold high on Rowand. Same goes with McCarthy...two guys that I know the organization had some concerns about their ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:21 PM) He struggled mightily the last few months of that season offensively and defensively. He misjudged numerous important fly balls, seemingly whenever Jenks was on the mound. I do remember him misjudging that fly ball by Victor Martinez in the Cleveland series. And he also missed a couple of fly balls in the playoffs. But I think those might have been non-routine plays to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:13 PM) From 2003 to 2005, Rowand posted a combined UZR of +36.6 in 390 games and 2889.2 innings. That's a UZR/150 of 17.1, which is definitely elite. I don't think his defense was overrated when he was with the Sox at all... QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 24, 2010 -> 03:17 PM) His UZR and plus/minus numbers were unreal (at least in '05 his PM was awesome) during his stretch with the Sox, I don't think he was overrated at all. And I have and had no problem dumping him for Thome I just don't want to downplay how valuable he was to the '05 club. I'm personally getting tired of the overrated D issues as well from people. Sure he struggled with plays at times when he was here, no OF is perfect, but Rowand was a very good defensive center fielder for us when he was here. I still remember the clinic he put on at Yankee stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) Agreed 1000%. We got the best years out of Aaron, and got rid of him before he got expensive. We also got an elite hitter for him. I don't see the problem with anything in how Rowand's career arc proceeded with the Sox. Oh, and an elite hitter with 1/2 of his contract paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) Oh, and an elite hitter with 1/2 of his contract paid for. But he was soft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Phillies don't have much in the system anymore, don't see it happening.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ May 24, 2010 -> 04:44 PM) Phillies don't have much in the system anymore, don't see it happening.... Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Why the hell are we still debating Rowand around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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