The Soxtalk Committee on Closing

[Heads22]

Exactly.

Why don't most people agree with us on this?

You think Putz won't blow f***ing saves if given the job? My god.

 

Because just because Jenks hasn't blown saves doesn't mean he hasn't sucked donkey balls.

[kjshoe04]

Because just because Jenks hasn't blown saves doesn't mean he hasn't sucked donkey balls.

Exactly. His performance has pretty much showed that he is not getting the job done even though he has only blown one save. When you can't get outs eventually it is going to catch up to you and you will start blowing saves. I doubt he's just f***ing with the opposition to make it interesting and then shutting the door. The blown saves will come and they will come in droves if he continues pitching the way he has been. I haven't seen his fat ass get a breaking ball over the plate in all season. Give Putz a chance before Bobby puts the nail in the coffin of this team.

[Milkman delivers]

the closers job is to come in and get the save, which Jenks has done except one time so far..

 

and I know Jenks has sucked, but as long as he keeps saving the game even if its close to being blown, its whatever.. when he starts blowing saves on a regular basis im all for getting him out of the role..

 

As someone already said, would you have stuck with Shingo as the closer in 2005? I think it was said that he was 8-9 in save opportunities and had a better ERA than Jenks does now.

[Heads22]

BTW, JJ Putz

 

Pitches 1-30: 14 IP, 11 H, 1 R, 2 HR (somehow? Yahoo?), 3 BB (all after 15 pitches), 17 K.

Pitches 31+: .2 IP, 5 R.

 

It would almost seem that he's damn good when his arm isn't about to fall off.

 

If this was my bullpen:

 

Closer: Putz

L Setup: Thornton

R Setup: Santos

Middle Relief: Pena, Linebrink, Jenks

Mopup: Jenks, Torres

[chisoxfan09]

Because although he's sucking hard, he's sucking hard in the AL (and not the NL), and he's still throwing 95+ with a lot of his fastballs, topping out at 98. Between moving to the NL Carlos Silva style, and maybe getting a different pitching coach/catcher, teams would be willing to risk a couple million dollars on that if they have a weak bullpen.

 

But...you're not getting anything back in terms of solid prospects, and if you don't trade him, he's getting non-tendered in the offseason.

 

This is a huge problem with Jenks status now. If you DFA him at the end of the season you get nothing back right? And hs trade value isn't very good right now. Maybe you get a B prospect.

[chisoxfan09]

Exactly. His performance has pretty much showed that he is not getting the job done even though he has only blown one save. When you can't get outs eventually it is going to catch up to you and you will start blowing saves. I doubt he's just f***ing with the opposition to make it interesting and then shutting the door. The blown saves will come and they will come in droves if he continues pitching the way he has been. I haven't seen his fat ass get a breaking ball over the plate in all season. Give Putz a chance before Bobby puts the nail in the coffin of this team.

 

Does anyone else think that Jenks also has a bit of an attitude issue. After all didn't he question the recent attempt to remove him from closer duties for a couple of save opportunities?

[greg775]

Who cares about attitude issues? He's a veteran. Don't you want him to want the ball? To all you who want Bobby out? Sometimes what you ask for ain't the answer when it becomes reality.

Edited May 27, 2010 by greg775

[BearSox]

Does anyone else think that Jenks also has a bit of an attitude issue. After all didn't he question the recent attempt to remove him from closer duties for a couple of save opportunities?

Attitude? Maybe, it wouldn't shock me. Commitment issue? Hell yeah. It shocks me every year we hear Bobby is in the best shape of his life, etc., but every time I see him come walking out of the bullpen for the first time, I feel the earth shake a little bit and he looks as fat as ever. Besides, from everything I have read, he was the laziest SOB you'd ever seen when he was with the Angels.

[T R U]

As someone already said, would you have stuck with Shingo as the closer in 2005? I think it was said that he was 8-9 in save opportunities and had a better ERA than Jenks does now.

 

There is a little bit of a difference between Shingo being the closer for not even a full year and the body of work Jenks has done as our closer over the last 5 years..

 

And again, I don't see why there is some urgency to remove him when he isn't blowing saves yet.. im fully aware that Jenks has been bad this season so far, but he hasn't been costing us games on a regular basis..

 

These are his save situations.. Including his lone blown save which was 0 IP and 4 R

 

7 IP - 10 H - 4 R - 3 BB - 8 K

 

This is everything else..

 

10 IP - 14 H - 9 R - 9 BB - 13 K

 

Like I said, stop using him in non save situations..

 

[Lillian]

the closers job is to come in and get the save, which Jenks has done except one time so far..

 

and I know Jenks has sucked, but as long as he keeps saving the game even if its close to being blown, its whatever.. when he starts blowing saves on a regular basis im all for getting him out of the role..

 

May I respectfully ask you just one question? Have you actually watched Bobby pitch?

[hogan873]

So what's the solution for Bobby and the closer role? Do they only use Bobby when they have a 3-run lead and use someone else when it's tighter? Come on. I keep hearing (seeing) the argument that the Sox wait until Jenks starts blowing more saves before moving him from that role. Why? His performance yesterday tells me that he will indeed blow some saves. Why wait until the Sox lose 2 or 3 games they can't afford to lose?

[hogan873]

May I respectfully ask you just one question? Have you actually watched Bobby pitch?

Couldn't have said it better.

[Balta1701]

There is a little bit of a difference between Shingo being the closer for not even a full year and the body of work Jenks has done as our closer over the last 5 years..

Shingo had like a 15 year career closing in Japan.

 

In 2005, the difference between Shingo-2004 and 2005 was obvious...he couldn't get his offspeed stuff over the plate. In 2004, he could throw every pitch in his arsenal for a strike, so you couldn't sit either on his fastball or on his changeup, because the difference between them was 40 mph and there was no time to react if you picked wrong.

 

In 2005, he couldn't throw anything offspeed for a strike, so every batter went up there sitting on his fastball.

 

Regardless of the body of work, when you can clearly see a guy is struggling with his control and that's leading directly to runs, you have a problem.

 

Shingo had only blown 1 save by the time he lost the closer's role to Hermanson; he was 8/9. But he'd lost a couple games in extra innings, had an ERA over 7, and it was obvious to anyone watching that he'd lost the control he had the previous year.

[NorthSideSox72]

Santos pitched only 20 innings last year in the minors, then onto Fall League. His arm needs to be used very carefully. That's why I don't like the idea of him in the closer role, this year (although maybe next year). I'd go by committee of Thornton/Putz depending on match-ups and rest. One can set up for the other if they are both rested.

 

[kjshoe04]

Shingo had like a 15 year career closing in Japan.

 

In 2005, the difference between Shingo-2004 and 2005 was obvious...he couldn't get his offspeed stuff over the plate. In 2004, he could throw every pitch in his arsenal for a strike, so you couldn't sit either on his fastball or on his changeup, because the difference between them was 40 mph and there was no time to react if you picked wrong.

 

In 2005, he couldn't throw anything offspeed for a strike, so every batter went up there sitting on his fastball.

 

Regardless of the body of work, when you can clearly see a guy is struggling with his control and that's leading directly to runs, you have a problem.

 

Shingo had only blown 1 save by the time he lost the closer's role to Hermanson; he was 8/9. But he'd lost a couple games in extra innings, had an ERA over 7, and it was obvious to anyone watching that he'd lost the control he had the previous year.

Bobby can't get anything but a fastball over the plate himself. His once great curve is atrocious right now.

[hogan873]

Bobby can't get anything but a fastball over the plate himself. His once great curve is atrocious right now.

And I think this is his big problem. I've said it before...he was a better pitcher when he threw 98 mph fastballs and that devastating curve.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Santos pitched only 20 innings last year in the minors, then onto Fall League. His arm needs to be used very carefully. That's why I don't like the idea of him in the closer role, this year (although maybe next year). I'd go by committee of Thornton/Putz depending on match-ups and rest. One can set up for the other if they are both rested.

 

Agreed. We may have found a diamond in the rough here with him. He's been pitching barely over a year and already has pretty good secondary stuff. He's got several prime seasons left and it'd be foolish to risk his arm now, IMO. True, he could also implode and never fulfill what appears to be a lot of potential but it's starting to look like he might be able to, and he'll be cheap for a while still also. I'd baby him and if we find ourselves in the thick of a pennant race and he's still dominant then maybe amp his workload up a bit. But for now, I'd take it easy with him.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think we should move Putz to the closer role for two reasons. Right now, I think he's our best option in terms of having the most effective overall bullpen. I'd rather keep Thornton available for a variety of high-leverage situations, including the occasional save opportunity. This would also allow us to give Santos some more late-inning work without putting too much pressure on him at once. Also, if you move Putz to closer and he succeeds, it should bump up his trade value quite a bit.

 

As for Jenks, I only want him pitching in low-pressure situations for the time-being. He needs to work on his secondary pitches if he wants to be effective, so let him work through those kinks in games that he can't blow. I'm all for giving Bobby another chance at some point, but something significant has got to change before I throw him out there with a 1 or 2 run lead again.

[WCSox]

And I think this is his big problem. I've said it before...he was a better pitcher when he threw 98 mph fastballs and that devastating curve.

 

Heck, he was devastating when he threw a 95-97 mph fastball and could throw the hook for strikes. That hook made him a stud, and his current inability to throw anything offspeed over the plate is making him a dud.

 

[Balta1701]

Heck, he was devastating when he threw a 95-97 mph fastball and could throw the hook for strikes. That hook made him a stud, and his current inability to throw anything offspeed over the plate is making him a dud.

Heck...I think there's a fair number of pitchers, especially in bullpens, who can get by throwing almost entirely 95-97 mph fastballs with the occasional offspeed pitch that doesn't even have to be a strike...if they have control of the fastball.

[WCSox]

Heck...I think there's a fair number of pitchers, especially in bullpens, who can get by throwing almost entirely 95-97 mph fastballs with the occasional offspeed pitch that doesn't even have to be a strike...if they have control of the fastball.

 

Yeah, guys like Kyle Farnsworth and Bobby Howry come to mind.

 

[chetkincaid]

Couldn't have said it better.

 

 

Also, did you see him pitch last year? That Pittsburgh game last year immediately comes to mind.

 

I think the Bobby Jenks ship has sailed. He would fit nicely with an NL team.

[hogan873]

Heck...I think there's a fair number of pitchers, especially in bullpens, who can get by throwing almost entirely 95-97 mph fastballs with the occasional offspeed pitch that doesn't even have to be a strike...if they have control of the fastball.

Thornton is sort of like this. His fastball is very tough to hit because of his ability to control it. Then his occasional off-speed stuff really throws hitters for loops.

[elrockinMT]

Because just because Jenks hasn't blown saves doesn't mean he hasn't sucked donkey balls.

 

This I agree with. My impression was always that you put Jenks in a close game and he sucks usually giving up at least one hit and a walk, but he got out of it usually. Put him in a game with a 3 or 4 run lead and/or not a save situation he would get them out 1-2-3. But the Indian gae blew that one out of the water.

[elrockinMT]

The point is we won despite Bobby, not really due to any large contribution from him, other than not sucking worse.

 

I do see your "point" and I probably used the wrong word, but still the bottom line is we won the game, but I sure don't want to see that kind of melt down by Jenks again. Can he get back on track? I haven't heard much in the way of comments from the Sox on this game. Has anyone else picked up anything?