Quin Posted May 29, 2010 Share Posted May 29, 2010 QUOTE (since56 @ May 29, 2010 -> 03:25 PM) Ramirez and Beckham the best in the league? Are you voting for them as all stars? QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 29, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) reading comprehension ^ ^ ^ You said at best, they are average, when at best, there are few SS-2B tandems that could match them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 When will this team send Beckham back down the the minors???? They are ruining this kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:32 AM) When will this team send Beckham back down the the minors???? They are ruining this kid. No they aren't. They're letting a young player work out of his struggles at the MLB level. The Royals let Alex Gordon work out his struggles in the minors, and look how he's turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 When will this team send Beckham back down the the minors???? They are ruining this kid. As long as he doesn't mope around as Ozzie warned him not to do, he should remain in the big leagues. If the Sox send him down and he hits .350 and comes back up, the fabled "pressure" will be back on him. If he goes 1 for 10 he'll be on the dreaded Alex Gordon death spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 30, 2010 -> 05:36 PM) No they aren't. They're letting a young player work out of his struggles at the MLB level. The Royals let Alex Gordon work out his struggles in the minors, and look how he's turned out. Wrong, they let Alex Gordon work out his issues in the bigs, got hurt, then sent him to the minors, and now is ruined. Gordon needs to get his confidence back and it's not going to work in the bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I just don't see why anybody with a brain would want Beckham sent down. He proved last year he can hit on this level. He's the same guy. Let him play. Bat him ninth. Let him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maki Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 we don't have a better option on this team or in the system to take over for gordon, so why not let him play? honestly, this is the worst you could possibly expect from him, and nobody else has shown that on a daily basis they'd hit better filling his position. send him to the minors and let nix/omar platoon? when they're a combined .200 in the 20 games after when gordon's in the minors, what have you accomplished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 30, 2010 -> 09:08 PM) I just don't see why anybody with a brain would want Beckham sent down. He proved last year he can hit on this level. He's the same guy. Let him play. Bat him ninth. Let him play. He hasn't proved s***. Yeah, he showed he can hit the ball first time through the league, but he hasn't been able to adjust at all to the new way pitchers are pitching him. Personally, I'm not oppossed to sending him and Quentin (if he's got options left) down. Batting sub .200 at the major league level as an everyday player for 2 months is unacceptable. Even if we have no one better to replace them, hopefully it sends a message to them and tells them what they are doing now is unacceptable. If they are too fragile mentally to handle being sent down when they are sucking, they don't belong in the majors to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:22 PM) He hasn't proved s***. Yeah, he showed he can hit the ball first time through the league, but he hasn't been able to adjust at all to the new way pitchers are pitching him. Personally, I'm not oppossed to sending him and Quentin (if he's got options left) down. Batting sub .200 at the major league level as an everyday player for 2 months is unacceptable. Even if we have no one better to replace them, hopefully it sends a message to them and tells them what they are doing now is unacceptable. If they are too fragile mentally to handle being sent down when they are sucking, they don't belong in the majors to begin with. This seems incredible for you to post, considering how badly they appear to want to improve. Obviously neither of us are there, but all accounts I have read is that both of them are extremely hard workers. I don't think there are two guys in the organization that think their performance is more unacceptable that Gordon and Carlos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:38 PM) This seems incredible for you to post, considering how badly they appear to want to improve. Obviously neither of us are there, but all accounts I have read is that both of them are extremely hard workers. I don't think there are two guys in the organization that think their performance is more unacceptable that Gordon and Carlos. I understand that, but the point remains the same. You don't produce in the big leagues, you don't get to play in the big leagues. This is a great test to see how they rebound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 10:05 PM) I understand that, but the point remains the same. You don't produce in the big leagues, you don't get to play in the big leagues. This is a great test to see how they rebound. Sending messages doesn't normally work when those they are being sent to have no ability respond to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 09:05 PM) I understand that, but the point remains the same. You don't produce in the big leagues, you don't get to play in the big leagues. This is a great test to see how they rebound. Not true. LOTS of players have taken their lumps in the big leagues. Especially guys who are playing on crappy teams that have no viable replacements and little chance of making the playoffs. Beckham has hit in the bigs over the course of (more or less) a full season. He's not some unknown from A-ball prospect. And, frankly, he's not going to get better at hitting major-league pitching by practicing against career minor-league AAA pitchers with mediocre stuff. Edited May 31, 2010 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Drew Stubbs is a good example of how letting a guy work through his problems at the big league level can pay dividends. And he doesn't have anywhere near the pedigree Beckham does. Edited May 31, 2010 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) Drew Stubbs is a good example of how letting a guy work through his problems at the big league level can pay dividends. And he doesn't have anywhere near the pedigree Beckham does. Yeah, cause he has really lit the baseball world on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm not saying it should be done, but ignoring and dismissing the possibility is sily. another 2 weeks or so of being two of the worst hitters in the majors, and they will probably need to be sent down. No way around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:17 AM) Yeah, cause he has really lit the baseball world on fire. Oh, I didn't know you had to be 2003 Barry Bonds to show considerable improvement as the year has gone on. Stubbs in April: .186/.301/.271 Stubbs in May: .271/.333/.510 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 30, 2010 -> 11:19 PM) I'm not saying it should be done, but ignoring and dismissing the possibility is sily. another 2 weeks or so of being two of the worst hitters in the majors, and they will probably need to be sent down. No way around it. You yourself admitted we have no one to replace them. If that is the case, where is the "need" to shut them down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Oh, I didn't know you had to be 2003 Barry Bonds to show considerable improvement as the year has gone on. Stubbs in April: .186/.301/.271 Stubbs in May: .271/.333/.510 Honestly man.. it isn't even worth it. I stopped long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Oh, I didn't know you had to be 2003 Barry Bonds to show considerable improvement as the year has gone on. Stubbs in April: .186/.301/.271 Stubbs in May: .271/.333/.510 Yeah, he's improved... But then again many hitters struggle in April and breakout in May. Beckham (outside of 1 good game here or there) and Quentin (outside of maybe a 1 week stretch earlier this month) haven't shown any significant signs of improvement, and the season is more or less a 1/3 over with. If they don't show any signs of improvement, they don't deserve to play in the bigs. Letting them fight through their struggles at the MLB level has worked so well, right? Why not try a different approach? On a side note, I'm indifferent on Stubbs. He seems like a decent player, but isn't and likely never will be a world beater. And it is like comparing apples and oranges with Stubbs and Beckham/Quentin considering Stubbs has never been on their level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Robin Ventura is a nice example... 1989: 58 PA, OPS+ 57, SLG .244 1990: 565 PA, OPS+ 83, SLG .318 1991: 705 PA, OPS+ 126, SLG .442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:22 AM) Honestly man.. it isn't even worth it. I stopped long ago. This means a lot coming from you, the almighty SoxAce. Really, your arrogance makes me sick. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, it usually leads to well rounded debates. But with you, I'm just the crazy old BearSox who doesn't know s***. Why bother with him, he's goofy! Right? I think you were one of the posters who gave me the most s*** about how I told everyone how horrible the Swisher deal was and how Beckham's current approach leads him to be vulnerable to inside fastballs and breaking stuff away. But all that stuff is whacky because it does/didn't conform with the rest of the board. GMAFB. Either contribute something or STFU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:39 AM) Yeah, he's improved... But then again many hitters struggle in April and breakout in May. Beckham (outside of 1 good game here or there) and Quentin (outside of maybe a 1 week stretch earlier this month) haven't shown any significant signs of improvement, and the season is more or less a 1/3 over with. If they don't show any signs of improvement, they don't deserve to play in the bigs. Letting them fight through their struggles at the MLB level has worked so well, right? Why not try a different approach? On a side note, I'm indifferent on Stubbs. He seems like a decent player, but isn't and likely never will be a world beater. And it is like comparing apples and oranges with Stubbs and Beckham/Quentin considering Stubbs has never been on their level. Point was Reds fans we're calling for Stubbs to be sent down just three short weeks ago. They (the Reds) stuck with him and it's paid off. It's not about being a "world-beater." Whatever that is. And it's not about being on Beckham and Quentin's level. I was just throwing out an example of a highly touted prospect that had some initial success, struggled mightily, only to turn it around while remaining with the big league club. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:41 AM) Robin Ventura is a nice example... 1989: 58 PA, OPS+ 57, SLG .244 1990: 565 PA, OPS+ 83, SLG .318 1991: 705 PA, OPS+ 126, SLG .442 1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle. 1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season 1991 - The Beginning to something great. Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him. The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2010 -> 12:51 AM) Point was Reds fans we're calling for Stubbs to be sent down just three short weeks ago. They (the Reds) stuck with him and it's paid off. It's not about being a "world-beater." Whatever that is. And it's not about being on Beckham and Quentin's level. I was just throwing out an example of a highly touted prospect that had some initial success, struggled mightily, only to turn it around while remaining with the big league club. That's all. Late April/Early May is a completely different story. How many people were calling the Teixeria signing last April a complete bust? Probably a lot. Hitters struggle in April due to mainly the cold weather, and any knowledge baseball fan should be more than willing to give players with potential more than a month to break out. I was more than fine with letting the players stay with the big league team coming into May. But as I stated earlier, you gotta draw a line at some point, IMO. And 2/3-1/2 a season of potentially being the worst every day player in the major league's is my line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 GMAFB. Either contribute something or STFU. Several posts today have put a smile on my face. That is one. Keep nonconforming. I wanna hear true opinions and you have good solid ones. Conformity sux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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