BECKHAM IS BACK

[BearSox]

Several posts today have put a smile on my face. That is one.

Keep nonconforming. I wanna hear true opinions and you have good solid ones. Conformity sux.

Greg, you are a crazy SOB and some of your posts drive me up the wall, but I love ya. You are a true sox fan at heart, as loyal as they get, and you stick with your gut and heart like no one else I have ever met or talked with.

[iamshack]

1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle.

1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season

1991 - The Beginning to something great.

 

Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him.

 

The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far.

 

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line.

Just like we should have drawn the line with Rios, Greg?

[BearSox]

Just like we should have drawn the line with Rios, Greg?

Rios is a completely different story considering we are stuck with his large contract. When you take on someone like Rios and his contract, you are either sinking or sailing with him. Luckily, we are sailing right now (although I'm not totally oppossed to trading him if we can get an insane package back, mainly because there is always the bust factor with Rios, IMO).

[iamshack]

Rios is a completely different story considering we are stuck with his large contract. When you take on someone like Rios and his contract, you are either sinking or sailing with him. Luckily, we are sailing right now (although I'm not totally oppossed to trading him if we can get an insane package back, mainly because there is always the bust factor with Rios, IMO).

The point is that 95% of the time, people like you, me, Greg...we have NO IDEA whether a guy is capable of turning things around or whether all is lost. All we can do is trust what a guy's body of work says.

[BearSox]

The point is that 95% of the time, people like you, me, Greg...we have NO IDEA whether a guy is capable of turning things around or whether all is lost. All we can do is trust what a guy's body of work says.

I agree with this completely.

 

And me not ruling out sending Beckham and Quentin down isn't to give up on them but hopefully spark something, change something, have something positive happen. It really can't be any worse than them get their asses handed to them day after day by MLB pitching (if that continues to happen), can it? I guess the only way it gets worse is if they suck in Charlotte as well, but I don't see that happening.

Edited May 31, 2010 by BearSox

[WCSox]

1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle.

1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season

1991 - The Beginning to something great.

 

Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him.

 

The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far.

 

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line.

 

Another way to look at it is that Beckham had more initial success than Ventura, with less minor-league experience to boot.

 

And you're missing the overarching point of players taking multiple years to develop into proficient hitters. The trajectory isn't always in a straight line a la Ventura. Crede posted an OPS+ of 113 back in 2002 and didn't eclipse 100 again until 2006.

 

Your "you gotta draw the line" argument is also based on a measly two months of data and the fact that Vizquel (who is posting even worse numbers than Beckham, believe it or not) would be replacing him in the lineup. You need to patient with young players.

 

[iamshack]

I agree with this completely.

 

And me not ruling out sending Beckham and Quentin down isn't to give up on them but hopefully spark something, change something, have something positive happen. It really can't be any worse than them get their asses handed to them day after day by MLB pitching (if that continues to happen), can it? I guess the only way it gets worse is if they suck in Charlotte as well, but I don't see that happening.

I wouldn't be against sending Beckham down, mainly as a confidence-booster. I advocated such a move about 3 weeks ago.

Quentin, on the other hand, I don't think that would help. I think he has been around the minor leagues enough to not really benefit much from even incredibly success. I would prefer he realize what kind of hitter he will become right here and right now.

[BearSox]

Another way to look at it is that Beckham had more initial success than Ventura, with less minor-league experience to boot.

 

And you're missing the overarching point of players taking multiple years to develop into proficient hitters. The trajectory isn't always in a straight line a la Ventura. Crede posted an OPS+ of 113 back in 2002 and didn't eclipse 100 again until 2006.

 

Your "you gotta draw the line" argument is also based on a measly two months of data and the fact that Vizquel (who is posting even worse numbers than Beckham, believe it or not) would be replacing him in the lineup. You need to patient with young players.

I don't see how 2/3's to 1/2 a season isn't being patient.

[southsider2k5]

Wrong, they let Alex Gordon work out his issues in the bigs, got hurt, then sent him to the minors, and now is ruined.

Gordon needs to get his confidence back and it's not going to work in the bigs.

 

I've never understood the concept that telling someone they aren't good enough to be here actually helping their confidence.

[southsider2k5]

Drew Stubbs is a good example of how letting a guy work through his problems at the big league level can pay dividends. And he doesn't have anywhere near the pedigree Beckham does.

 

I'd go with Robin Ventura as a great example. High draft pick, infielder, great hitter.

[witesoxfan]

1989 - No big surprise. His first cup of coffee in the majors, lots of players struggle.

1990 - First full season in the majors. Had it's up and downs. No where as nearly as bad as Beckham has been this year. He at least hit .250 and had a fantastic K:BB ratio for his first full season

1991 - The Beginning to something great.

 

Really, not the greatest example, IMO. Ventura's progressions are no different than many players before and after him.

 

The main difference is that Venture "PROGRESSED", Beckham has "REGRESSED" thus far.

 

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to let Beckham continue facing major league pitching, but the idea of sending him down shouldn't be dimissed. At some point you gotta draw the line.

 

Ventura's first 141 PA's of 1990 - .169/.290/.280/.570, 19 BB, 19 K

Beckham's 2010 season (187 PAs) - .196/.286/.239/.526 18 BB, 33 K

 

I'd say Ventura is a fantastic example, personally.

[BearSox]

I've never understood the concept that telling someone they aren't good enough to be here actually helping their confidence.

You gotta find confidence before you can have it.

 

If that means finding your confidence at Charlotte against weaker pitching, so be it.

 

And like I said earlier, if they are too weak mentally to handle getting sent down when they have clearly been terrible thus far, they are too weak mentally to be in this game then.

 

And let me reiterate, I'm in favor of seeing what happens in the first two weeks or so of June. If they continue to suck though, a different approach has to be applied. Letting them get mauled by MLB pitching all season isn't the answer, IMO.

Edited May 31, 2010 by BearSox

[southsider2k5]

You gotta find confidence before you can have it.

 

If that means finding your confidence at Charlotte against weaker pitching, so be it.

 

And like I said earlier, if they are too weak mentally to handle getting sent down when they have clearly been terrible thus far, they are too weak mentally to be in this game then.

 

And let me reiterate, I'm in favor of seeing what happens in the first two weeks or so of June. If they continue to suck though, a different approach has to be applied. Letting them get mauled by MLB pitching all season isn't the answer, IMO.

 

Did I miss where Becks said he wasn't confident?

[BearSox]

Did I miss where Becks said he wasn't confident?

You brought up how getting sent down hurts confidence.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

New article @ whitesox.com about Beckham http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws . Hard to believe he didn't have any extra base hits in May. Very un-Beckham like. I know he'll probably be a 2nd baseman for the rest of his career but with Teahens bad D maybe having Beckham back at 3rd and Nix at 2nd wouldn't be such a bad thing ,making Teahen the primary LH DH instead of Kotsay ,who then can re assume what he does best (pinch hit).

 

Thought it was funny in the article Beckham saying some one wrote him on his Facebook page saying he was flying open. Beckham said he's definitely not doing that. Doesn't fathom always say that ?

[WCSox]

I don't see how 2/3's to 1/2 a season isn't being patient.

 

I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development.

 

[Special K]

New article @ whitesox.com about Beckham http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws . Hard to believe he didn't have any extra base hits in May. Very un-Beckham like. I know he'll probably be a 2nd baseman for the rest of his career but with Teahens bad D maybe having Beckham back at 3rd and Nix at 2nd wouldn't be such a bad thing ,making Teahen the primary LH DH instead of Kotsay ,who then can re assume what he does best (pinch hit).

 

Thought it was funny in the article Beckham saying some one wrote him on his Facebook page saying he was flying open. Beckham said he's definitely not doing that. Doesn't fathom always say that ?

 

 

This guy (http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=hp100525) seems to think he simply is not hitting fastballs well at all this year, and that he's been chasing a lot of high fastballs out of the zone. That is pretty astonishing he didn't have one extra base hit during the entire month. I have noticed that Beckham has started making some real solid contact, and that when he's driven in runs this past week the hits came off fastballs, so maybe that's a promising sign that Gordon is starting to come out of this slump.

[BearSox]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

 

Beckham's current approach leads him vulnerable to the outside breaking pitches. Until he fixes that, he won't see much success.

[BearSox]

I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development.

And I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development....

 

what a terrible argument. No one on this board is qualified for such a job.

[southsider2k5]

You brought up how getting sent down hurts confidence.

 

I responded to that idea actually.

[WCSox]

And I'm glad that you're not in charge of Sox player development....

 

what a terrible argument. No one on this board is qualified for such a job.

 

Most people on this board realize that your timetable for the development of a 23-year-old is completely unrealistic.

 

[BearSox]

Most people on this board realize that your timetable for the development of a 23-year-old is completely unrealistic.

Sending a struggling prospect down isn't unheard of or unrealistic.

 

If this was any other prospect, it wouldn't be an unrealistic idea. But god forbid anyone say anything bad about THE Gordon Beckham!

[southsider2k5]

Sending a struggling prospect down isn't unheard of or unrealistic.

 

If this was any other prospect, it wouldn't be an unrealistic idea. But god forbid anyone say anything bad about THE Gordon Beckham!

 

In a season where most people want the team melted down and prospects playing, why would we ship out our top prospect? It has nothing to do with who it is.

[BearSox]

In a season where most people want the team melted down and prospects playing, why would we ship out our top prospect? It has nothing to do with who it is.

There was never anything said about not calling Beckham back up.

 

You send him down until/if he finds his grove then you call him back up. Give 2-4 more weeks and if he doesn't show any signs of improvement vs. MLB pitching after nearly half a season, its time for a change in approach. Vs. MiLB pitching he can possibly find his grove, maybe something can click.

 

People act as if sending a player down means you are giving up on him.

[Special K]

There was never anything said about not calling Beckham back up.

 

You send him down until/if he finds his grove then you call him back up. Give 2-4 more weeks and if he doesn't show any signs of improvement vs. MLB pitching after nearly half a season, its time for a change in approach. Vs. MiLB pitching he can possibly find his grove, maybe something can click.

 

People act as if sending a player down means you are giving up on him.

 

 

I think the best thing to do right now would let him play it out until All Star break and then hopefully he will have come out of it. If not, then re-evaluate the situation and consider sending him down and hopefully have him back up for September call-ups, because if Beckham isn't playing well then I will assume we are not going to be fighting for a division title. Beckham gets a lot of attention all the while Quentin is playing equally terrible and nobody suggests let him work out in the minors. Gordon and Quentin are the two biggest keys to our offense, and if they don't get it going, we're not going anywhere.

 

Also, our season might look a lot different had we brought back Dye (who put up All Star numbers through the first half of last season) to play right field and let him battle it out w/ Carlos for a starting spot.