America's Infrastructure

[Texsox]

I was watching an interesting documentary on the History Channel and the state of our roads, bridges, sewer, water, and electric grid is appalling. I use to think we would fall because of our debt, but now I'm thinking running out of electricity and not being able to flush a toilet may cripple up first.

[Balta1701]

I was watching an interesting documentary on the History Channel and the state of our roads, bridges, sewer, water, and electric grid is appalling. I use to think we would fall because of our debt, but now I'm thinking running out of electricity and not being able to flush a toilet may cripple up first.

What you've got to realize for a moment Tex is that they're both part of the same problem. In both cases, the people who have run the government, especially for the last 30 years or so, have preached a philosophy where you can have your tax cuts and nothing will ever fail because of it. I've seen the same documentary.

 

When you aren't willing to pay higher taxes for anything and rail against that horrendous "Waste", what gets cut? Things like dam inspections, road repair, upkeep of levee systems, updating of the electrical grid, etc.

[Heads22]

Or, for example, the fire department that took 10 minutes to respond to a house fire last night because they can't keep someone there (just one person) for 24 hours a day.

[kapkomet]

What you've got to realize for a moment Tex is that they're both part of the same problem. In both cases, the people who have run the government, especially for the last 30 years or so, have preached a philosophy where you can have your tax cuts and nothing will ever fail because of it. I've seen the same documentary.

 

When you aren't willing to pay higher taxes for anything and rail against that horrendous "Waste", what gets cut? Things like dam inspections, road repair, upkeep of levee systems, updating of the electrical grid, etc.

 

Evil motherf***ing Republicans.

[lostfan]

Evil motherf***ing Republicans.

You're finally coming around, Kap

[kapkomet]

You're finally coming around, Kap

 

 

Oh, I know - racism, bigotry, greed, waste, diahrrea, , crumbling infastructure, God, and everything else horrible wouldn't exist but for the Republicans.

[lostfan]

Oh, I know - racism, bigotry, greed, waste, diahrrea, , crumbling infastructure, God, and everything else horrible wouldn't exist but for the Republicans.

Exactly, why have you spent so much time denying it?

[iamshack]

I was watching an interesting documentary on the History Channel and the state of our roads, bridges, sewer, water, and electric grid is appalling. I use to think we would fall because of our debt, but now I'm thinking running out of electricity and not being able to flush a toilet may cripple up first.

I saw the same documentary. The dams in particular was incredibly scary. There are something like 2400 dams in South Dakota and only 2 inspectors or something?

 

The first example of this problem was the bridge collapse a few years ago...in...was it Minnesota?

 

We have been neglecting our infrastructure for 5 decades....we're going to be paying the price very soon.

[lostfan]

Balta does have a point even if he's pinning it on the usual suspects. Its a lot of people's faults, really. A couple of months ago there were some proposed cuts to Chicago public schools since the city is broke and everybody was up in arms saying that should be sacred etc., as if they haven't already done everything else to avoid it. Leaving aside the obvious corruption for a minute to deal with economic reality, ask those people who volunteers to pay more taxes to keep the schools open until the outlook improves? You get crickets.

[Y2HH]

Higher taxes won't solve this problem, either. They'd have to take that added tax money and actually spend it on infrastructure and not their friends, families, and contributers, which won't be happening anytime soon, no matter what the tax rate is. Oh, it also won't matter who's in office, Democrat or Republican, you aren't seeing that money used as it should be...because we don't do things that way.

 

Besides, roads and bridges are all being repaired by the Obama bailouts...I saw it when driving down south on my last camping trip...the only problem is I see these same roads getting repaired every year, whether it's with bailout funds or not.

 

The sooner all of you stop blaming one party or the other, the sooner you'll realize that neither of those parties are on your side, whether you vote for them or not. They're on their own side, a side you aren't a part of, and never will be.

[Balta1701]

Besides, roads and bridges are all being repaired by the Obama bailouts...I saw it when driving down south on my last camping trip...the only problem is I see these same roads getting repaired every year, whether it's with bailout funds or not.

You know why I'd guess that is? Because there's not enough money available to do what needs to be done; complete rebuilds of some roads. So, they wind up with half-arsed repairs done every few years to keep them operating once a problem crops up. It's vastly more expensive than a complete rebuild in the long run, but you don't need to come up with all the funds at once.

 

Symptom of the same problem.

[Balta1701]

I saw the same documentary. The dams in particular was incredibly scary. There are something like 2400 dams in South Dakota and only 2 inspectors or something?

Texas has over 7000 dams, and employs 7 inspectors, and I believe that's an increase from when the original documentary aired and people started asking questions about why they only had 2.

 

I can't remember exactly which state, but I think it was Mississippi that didn't employ a single inspector.

[NorthSideSox72]

Higher taxes won't solve this problem, either. They'd have to take that added tax money and actually spend it on infrastructure and not their friends, families, and contributers, which won't be happening anytime soon, no matter what the tax rate is. Oh, it also won't matter who's in office, Democrat or Republican, you aren't seeing that money used as it should be...because we don't do things that way.

 

Besides, roads and bridges are all being repaired by the Obama bailouts...I saw it when driving down south on my last camping trip...the only problem is I see these same roads getting repaired every year, whether it's with bailout funds or not.

 

The sooner all of you stop blaming one party or the other, the sooner you'll realize that neither of those parties are on your side, whether you vote for them or not. They're on their own side, a side you aren't a part of, and never will be.

Just as with the CTA, this problem is not JUST the loss of some marginal money to corruption, nor is it JUST the loss of some marginal money to inefficiencies, nor is it JUST the fact that there is more work to be done than money to pay for it. Its all the above. Anyone who thinks that throwing more money at it will solve all the problems, or who thinks that the marginal amount of waste or corruption is making it impossible, is just being stubborn to defend one particular agenda.

 

[Balta1701]

Anyone who thinks that throwing more money at it will solve all the problems, or who thinks that the marginal amount of waste or corruption is making it impossible, is just being stubborn to defend one particular agenda.

To retort; anyone who believes that these problems can be solved without spending a lot more money is doing exactly the same thing.

[NorthSideSox72]

To retort; anyone who believes that these problems can be solved without spending a lot more money is doing exactly the same thing.

Eh? How is that a retort? You just re-stated half my argument and left off the other half. Its like you assumed I was taking the "ITS ALL WASTE" argument without actuall reading my post, where you would have seen I said clearly it was all the above.

 

[Balta1701]

Eh? How is that a retort? You just re-stated half my argument and left off the other half. Its like you assumed I was taking the "ITS ALL WASTE" argument without actuall reading my post, where you would have seen I said clearly it was all the above.

I would say that I think I misunderstood the meaning of your clause about waste/corruption on my first reading.

[bmags]

Just as with the CTA, this problem is not JUST the loss of some marginal money to corruption, nor is it JUST the loss of some marginal money to inefficiencies, nor is it JUST the fact that there is more work to be done than money to pay for it. Its all the above. Anyone who thinks that throwing more money at it will solve all the problems, or who thinks that the marginal amount of waste or corruption is making it impossible, is just being stubborn to defend one particular agenda.

 

The thing that drives me crazy about the CTA always having to fight for more funding is the argument you hear about "why should I have to pay for their service" as if we are riding for free, and as if I'm not paying for their roads and highways. Drives me batty.

[NorthSideSox72]

The thing that drives me crazy about the CTA always having to fight for more funding is the argument you hear about "why should I have to pay for their service" as if we are riding for free, and as if I'm not paying for their roads and highways. Drives me batty.

I agree with that. People scream about funding of mass transit, where the users have to pay a portion of the costs, yet say nothing of the hundreds of billions spent every year on roads that they drive on without paying for it directly.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Here's some waste from a few recent things I can remember....

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03...-toll-authority

It's not fricken complicated. Blue is Ok. Red is Bad. Yellow is account low. If you don't know that...then you'll call the Illinois tollway and they will tell you. Simply as that...you'll never have the question again. How much will be spent on this??

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-10...rkers-half-mile

Totally uneccesary. Not only was every 1/2 mile sufficient, so is having these mile markers only in the median in the middle.

 

[JorgeFabregas]

Missouri has mile markers every .1 miles on some stretches of highway. Indiana has them every .2 miles on some stretches. They both seemed excessive to me (as does every .25 miles).

[bmags]

I agree with that. People scream about funding of mass transit, where the users have to pay a portion of the costs, yet say nothing of the hundreds of billions spent every year on roads that they drive on without paying for it directly.

 

I actually wonder if some of the southern illinois politicians who cry foul realize that people don't ride free.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I actually wonder if some of the southern illinois politicians who cry foul realize that people don't ride free.

Or that drivers on their highways do.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

More waste.... Forget your party for a second and ask if these signs are necessary. The first time I saw it I was like WTF. This is almost as bad as Blago plastering his name all over ther tollway.

 

chicagotribune.com

Stimulus signage has GOP outraged

Critics say they amount to taxpayer-funded political advertising. Others respond that signs, too, are jobs

By Katherine Skiba, Tribune Reporter

 

11:02 PM CDT, July 15, 2010

 

 

WASHINGTON — First-term Republican Congressman Aaron Schock of Illinois is peeved over the green highway signs that have sprouted across the U.S. touting stimulus dollars at work.

 

"Propaganda. An unnecessary overhead expense," argued Schock, who, like every House Republican, opposed last year's $787 billion stimulus.

 

Lately some Republicans have been taking aim at signage for the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. This month, Schock introduced a bill, the "End the Stimulus Advertisement Act," to prohibit them.

 

In Illinois, about 950 signs have been posted at highway, road, transit and other projects, said Josh Kauffman, a spokesman for the Illinois Department of Transportation.

 

The signs cost about $300 each, and it costs another $200 to install them, he said. The bottom line? About $665,000, a calculation Kauffman said is based on buying a sign and installing it in two locations.

 

The cost has come out of the $936 million Illinois has gotten in transportation stimulus cash, he said.

 

Illinois residents are no strangers when it comes to spending on road signs. Four years ago, tollway leaders were criticized for planning to drop $480,000 on 32 signs extolling "Open Road Tolling. Rod R. Blagojevich, Governor" ahead of the 2006 election.

 

In an interview Thursday, Schock asserted that the costs nationally have reached an estimated $20 million. His spokesman said that figure is based on reports from eight states and media accounts.

 

About half the states choose to use the signs and the others don't, said Jill Zuckman, a spokeswoman for U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, a Republican whose old congressional seat Schock holds. "While we have encouraged states to let the public know where their tax dollars are going, the decision to post signs has been left to the states," Zuckman said.

 

Bowing to GOP pressure, the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board sent a letter Thursday to six federal agencies asking how much money has been spent on stimulus signs, logos and emblems. "I don't have any idea, nor does the board, on how much has been spent," said Ed Pound, board spokesman.

 

The letter went to the departments of Transportation, Defense, Commerce, Housing and Urban Development as well as to the Environmental Protection Agency and the General Services Administration, all major recipients of stimulus funds, Pound said. The recovery board wants them to respond by Sept. 3.

 

The signage uproar is grounded in a long-standing principle that appropriations by federal agencies should not be used "for publicity and propaganda," said California Rep. Darrell Issa, the top Republican on the oversight committee. It was his letter, dated June 24, to the recovery board's chairman that prompted its query.

 

In his letter, Issa said the signs show that it's the "common perception that taxpayer funds are being wasted on what amounts to political propaganda on behalf of the Obama administration."

 

"Self-congratulatory stimulus signs are inherently political," he added.

 

Issa wants to know if federal agencies have required the signs on projects or just suggested them. Zuckman, at the transportation department, said states have been "encouraged" to let the public know where their tax dollars are going, but the decision is up to individual states.

 

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, asked about reports that millions were being wasted on the signs, said Wednesday: "I'm glad that the Republicans have noticed the nearly 11,000 road projects this summer."

 

Gibbs maintained the tab for signage is about three cents on every $100 spent on the recovery.

 

Where do Republicans think the signs come from, asked Eddie Vale, political communications director for the AFL-CIO. "There isn't a magical road sign unicorn that brings them. They're manufactured, that is, building and placing the signs also create jobs."

 

At Western Remac Inc. in west suburban Woodridge, president Mike Conoscenti said it had made and sold about 100 Recovery Act signs — and he appreciates the work. "In this day and age, everything is extremely competitive in pricing. Work is down for us across the board, our margins are extremely tight, and we're happy for anything that we can get."

 

[email protected]

 

Copyright © 2010, Chicago Tribune

 

[Balta1701]

Frankly, despite all the commuting I've done this year, I've been disappointed that I haven't seen more ARRA signs.

[mr_genius]

yet say nothing of the hundreds of billions spent every year on roads that they drive on without paying for it directly.

 

i directly pay for it with the outrageous taxes I pay, the fees i pay , and when i pay tolls.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2010 by mr_genius