Israeli soldiers open fire on aid convoy trying to enter Gaza

[Balta1701]

I have no opinions on how this will affect anything, but it seems like a major line has been crossed here.

At least nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed and dozens were wounded aboard an aid flotilla bound for the Gaza Strip when Israeli naval commandos seized control of the boats in international waters early Monday.

 

An Israeli army spokesman would not disclose their identities or nationalities. Some Turkish, Israeli and Arab media outlets had earlier put the death toll at 19 activists and said they included as many as 10 Turkish nationals. The wounded were evacuated to Israeli hospitals and the ships were led into Israel's Ashdod port, where the passengers and aid supplies were being unloaded and screened. Seven Israeli naval personnel were also injured.

 

Sharp condemnations of Israel rang out from across the world, with several European countries summoning Israeli ambassadors to protest. The European Union called for an inquiry into the deaths. And the United Nations Security Council planned to meet Monday afternoon for an emergency session. The United States expressed regret at the loss of the life and said it was "working to understand the circumstances of the tragedy."

 

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, who is in Canada and had been scheduled to meet President Obama in Washington on Tuesday, decided to cut short his trip and will return home Monday night instead, his office said.

 

Turkey, which dispatched the main Mavi Marmara ship carrying 600 activists and thousands of tons of aid, strongly condemned Israel, warning of deep consequences to relations, as protesters demonstrated outside the Israeli consulate in Istanbul and Israel released a travel advisory warning Israelis to avoid travel to Turkey.

[lostfan]

lol, Netanyahu knows how that meeting is going to go and doesn't want to hear it

[kapkomet]

Whether it is or not (which remains to be seen), this is "clearly" Isreal being ultra agressive (to clarify, they're "wrong" here - again, whether they are or not). I think they learned it from George W. Bush.

[bmags]

The more reports I read, this just appeared to be the keystone cops going into an angry mob and then all hell breaks loose. Not sure why that unit decided to go in. Not sure whether the ship was being warned to turn around. Why they did it before the ship reached the trade barrier zone. And why they thought slow entry off of rope ladders from a helicopter into hundreds of really really really extremely pro-palestinian mobs one at a time with paintball guns was a good idea. It'd be funny, if, you know, people didn't die, and the ship wasn't trying to bring relief to people starving and forced to live in poverty, and the situation wasn't so impossible to solve.

[kapkomet]

The more reports I read, this just appeared to be the keystone cops going into an angry mob and then all hell breaks loose. Not sure why that unit decided to go in. Not sure whether the ship was being warned to turn around. Why they did it before the ship reached the trade barrier zone. And why they thought slow entry off of rope ladders from a helicopter into hundreds of really really really extremely pro-palestinian mobs one at a time with paintball guns was a good idea. It'd be funny, if, you know, people didn't die, and the ship wasn't trying to bring relief to people starving and forced to live in poverty, and the situation wasn't so impossible to solve.

 

 

One of the major problems is along with the aid, usually there's wanted people, and military supplies.

 

Isreal typically doesn't do this without some type of intelligence - there was someone/something aboard that ship that they wanted to capture.

[StrangeSox]

It was the Free Palestine group. They were making a political statement and breaking the blockade. I would doubt that there was anyone of value on that ship or weapons. This was meant to cause a confrontation, and it would completely destroy the protesters' message if they were found to have been smuggling weapons or people.

[kapkomet]

It was the Free Palestine group. They were making a political statement and breaking the blockade. I would doubt that there was anyone of value on that ship or weapons. This was meant to cause a confrontation, and it would completely destroy the protesters' message if they were found to have been smuggling weapons or people.

 

 

Or so you would think...

 

With that said, it's always the "political statement" things that get Isreal in trouble.

[StrangeSox]

Well, Israel's story was that their IDF soldiers were attacked when they (probably illegally, because it was still international waters) boarded the flotilla boats, so they had to respond by killing 9 of them. Some video shot by Al Jazeera doesn't jive with their cover story, instead indicating that the IDF began firing tear gas and stun grenades aboard the boats before boarding them and that shots were fired and someone was killed before the first boat was boarded.

 

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/raw-video...-boarding-ship/

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/terror-finance-flotilla

 

The convoy of ships allegedly trying to bring aid to the Gaza Strip was organized by a group belonging to an officially designated terrorist organization.

[bmags]

any bill kristol publications i will not believe for a second. I wouldn't be shocked, but on the other hand...i mean...these protestors were unarmed...if they had anything of value why not use them?

 

Isreal just played right in their arms. They are doing everything possible to be the dumbest f***ing hawks ever right now.

[StrangeSox]

No guns were found on board.

 

Even if we believe what Billy Kristol has to say (HA!), where's the justification for Israel boarding boats in international waters and taking prisoners? Where's the justification for responding to people with sticks and knives by shooting them? This is, of course, bypassing the lack of justification for the blockade in the first place.

 

Thus, the convoy of ships allegedly trying to bring aid to the Gaza Strip could never be characterized as a "peace flotilla." With ties to Hamas and other dangerous groups, the IHH can only be described as a dangerous organization. Its members only underscored this fact when they attacked Israeli naval personnel with iron bars and knives, ultimately leading to the regrettable deaths this morning on the Mediterranean Sea.

 

LOL. That's why its best to ignore Kristol's crap. They "attacked" Israeli naval personnel when Israeli naval personnel illegally boarded their ship and tried to take them prisoner.

 

Guardian has a decent breakdown:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/3...reedom-flotilla

 

 

Edited June 1, 2010 by StrangeSox

[bmags]

well, I mean, the soldiers were getting the s*** kicked out of them...which...to my keystone cops point...why the hell did they think that would work? 1 by 1 entry when they were grossly out numbered...

 

DUDES WERE GETTING DISARMED BY UNTRAINED CIVILIANS. I feel like this elite squad wasn't half as hardcore as even israeli police.

[EvilMonkey]

well, I mean, the soldiers were getting the s*** kicked out of them...which...to my keystone cops point...why the hell did they think that would work? 1 by 1 entry when they were grossly out numbered...

 

DUDES WERE GETTING DISARMED BY UNTRAINED CIVILIANS. I feel like this elite squad wasn't half as hardcore as even israeli police.

Well, the supposed civilians were SUPPOSED to be there on a peace mission. I guess they didn't expect a brawl to break out.

[Balta1701]

I guess they didn't expect a brawl to break out.

Of course both sides expected a fight. They were trying to run a blockade. The blockade itself is an act of war, as is trying to run it.

[DBAHO]

Whoever's fault this ends up being, you'd have to say the relationship b/w Turkey and Israel has been severly damaged by this.

[Rex Kickass]

This is pretty inexcusable on Israel's part IMO both in terms of advancing peace in its region and just in general.

[EvilMonkey]

This is pretty inexcusable on Israel's part IMO both in terms of advancing peace in its region and just in general.

So they should just let boats with 'aid' coming from terrorist funded groups into the region unchecked? Why don't you just have them open their borders while you are at it, and give Palistinians the right to vote in Irsael?

[Rex Kickass]

So they should just let boats with 'aid' coming from terrorist funded groups into the region unchecked? Why don't you just have them open their borders while you are at it, and give Palistinians the right to vote in Irsael?

 

I think there's a difference between boarding a ship within territorial waters and conducting a ship inspection to avoid finding contraband and boarding and attacking a ship in international waters which is essentially what happened. If there were real weapons on that ship, we'd have heard about that.

 

And the end result? The end of the blockade actually, because Egypt, Israel's partner in this blockade responded to this attack by opening its border with Gaza for an "unlimited" period instead of the couple days a month it previously allowed.

 

And the flotilla was manned by IHH, a terrorist group that does such horrible things as its focus as providing water wells and health care in Africa, like working to treat cateracts in 10 countries across Africa.

[EvilMonkey]

I think there's a difference between boarding a ship within territorial waters and conducting a ship inspection to avoid finding contraband and boarding and attacking a ship in international waters which is essentially what happened. If there were real weapons on that ship, we'd have heard about that.

Glad to know that you were there for the first hand confirmation of the news stories put out by the Palis only seconds after the incident happened, as if they somehow already had them prepared! One account says they attacked the ship, the others say they boarded for inspection and were themselves attacked. There is also apparently video proving each side is correct. (Surprise, surprise!) The so-called peace flotilla stated its intentions of running the blockade, why should the Israelis have waited until it crossed the border to take action? Would that have made it all better in your eyes? if the boats were inside territorial waters, would you have a different story, or just find a different angle to attack on? They went there for an altercation, planned for it, had press releases ready and everything, and they got what they were looking for. If the goods were purely humanitarian in nature, why did they not take the israelis up on their offer to offload the goods at port and have them transported across the border by land? Because they WANTED a fight.

[Balta1701]

If the goods were purely humanitarian in nature, why did they not take the israelis up on their offer to offload the goods at port and have them transported across the border by land?

Because virtually nothing has been getting into Gaza through that route. It all gets hung up. That one there's a good answer for; it's been a full-bore blockade.

[EvilMonkey]

Because virtually nothing has been getting into Gaza through that route. It all gets hung up. That one there's a good answer for; it's been a full-bore blockade.

When this group announced its plans, they made the specific offer to have them unload at their port and that they would deliver it overland after inspection. So their embargo is so good it stops themselves? Seems they could have made a point by doing just that, and if the goods didnt make it thru, then complaining to the UN or something, but instead they chose the plan with violence in it.

[Balta1701]

then complaining to the UN or something, but instead they chose the plan with violence in it.

Complaining to the UN is utterly worthless regarding Israel because every complaint runs into the US's wall of protection.

[NorthSideSox72]

Sems to me this is an example of both sides being intentionally stupid.

 

You have this "peace flotilla", who decided to run the blockade, knowing full well they risked a conflict.

 

You have the Israelis deciding to take poorly planned military action, knowing full well it would have consequences (negative ones) to their own standing and security situation.

 

[Balta1701]

Sems to me this is an example of both sides being intentionally stupid.

 

You have this "peace flotilla", who decided to run the blockade, knowing full well they risked a conflict.

 

You have the Israelis deciding to take poorly planned military action, knowing full well it would have consequences (negative ones) to their own standing and security situation.

And whichever side had the goal of finally getting international attention on Israel's year and a half long blockade of Gaza (i.e. the blockade runners) has fully achieved their goals.

 

They knew exactly what they were doing. They baited Israel into responding, and Israel wasn't smart enough to not take the bait. Not only that, but they weren't smart enough to have any plan for how to respond to this type of provocation other than with the worst possible option; killing a lot of people who didn't have guns.

[bmags]

And whichever side had the goal of finally getting international attention on Israel's year and a half long blockade of Gaza (i.e. the blockade runners) has fully achieved their goals.

 

They knew exactly what they were doing. They baited Israel into responding, and Israel wasn't smart enough to not take the bait. Not only that, but they weren't smart enough to have any plan for how to respond to this type of provocation other than with the worst possible option; killing a lot of people who didn't have guns.

 

This is pretty much the bottom line.