In the name of 'social justice' this is just wrong

[juddling]

 

 

just wrong

 

 

In yet another nod to the protection of fledgling self-esteem, an Ottawa children’s soccer league has introduced a rule that says any team that wins a game by more than five points will lose by default.

 

The Gloucester Dragons Recreational Soccer league’s newly implemented edict is intended to dissuade a runaway game in favour of sportsmanship. The rule replaces its five-point mercy regulation, whereby any points scored beyond a five-point differential would not be registered.

 

Kevin Cappon said he first heard about the rule on May 20 — right after he had scored his team’s last allowable goal. His team then tossed the ball around for fear of losing the game.

 

He said if anything, the league’s new rule will coddle sore losers.

 

“They should be saying anything is possible. If we can get five goals really fast, well, so can the other team,” said Kevin, 17, who has played in the league for five years. “People grow in adversity, they don’t really get worse…. I think you’ll see more leadership skills being used if a losing team tries to recuperate than if they never got into that situation at all.”

 

Kevin’s father, Bruce Cappon, called the rule ludicrous.

 

“I couldn’t find anywhere in the world, even in a communist country, where that rule is enforced,” he said.

 

Mr. Cappon said the organization is trying to “reinvent the wheel” by fostering a non-competitive environment. The league has 3,000 children enrolled ranging in age from four to 18 years old.

 

“Everybody wants a close game, nobody wants blowouts, but we don’t want to go by those farcical rules that they come up with,” he said. “Heaven forbid when these kids get into the real world. They won’t be prepared to deal with the competition out there.”

 

Paul Cholmsky, whose four- and six-year-old boys play in the league, said the intended goal of a default-lose rule might backfire in teaching life skills.

 

“If there’s one team that’s consistenly dominant and one team that’s not, well, that’s life,” he said.

 

Mr. Cholmsky said he would be in favour of temporarily handicapping a team, for example reducing the number of players on the field, over ensuring a team loss for a high score differential.

 

According to the league’s new rules, coaches of stronger teams are encouraged to deter runaway games by rotating players out of their usual positions, ensuring players pass the ball around, asking players to kick with the weaker foot, taking players off the field and encouraging players to score from farther away.

 

Club director Sean Cale said he is disappointed a few parents are making the new soccer rule overshadow the community involvement and organizing the Gloucester club does.

 

“The registration fee, rergardless of the sport, does not give a parent the right to insult or belittle the organization,” he said. “It gives you a uniform, it gives you a team.”

 

Mr. Cale said the league’s 12-person board of directors is not trying to take the fun out of the game, they are simply trying to make it fair. The new rule, suggested by “involved parents,” is a temporary measure that will be replaced by a pre-season skill assessment to make fair teams.

 

“The board is completely volunteer-run and we do the best that we can to provide a good, clean, fun soccer experience for everyone,” he said.

 

Although parents are fuming, he said the commotion is coming from “about 1% of the parents.”

 

 

 

 

[vandy125]

So, if you are losing by 4, can you kick it in your own goal a few times and get the win?...

[GoSox05]

This is so scary. This social justice. I wonder if Glen Beck knows about this. This is the kinda stuff that leads to death camps and communism.

[NorthSideSox72]

I remember a similar article once, years ago, about a baseball Little League, where the league decided that they wouldn't keep score anymore. Some kid was asked what he thought about that, and his response was "it's stupid and dumb". Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[StrangeSox]

I don't have problems with some of the really young teams de-emphasizing winning, but this is just stupid.

[Y2HH]

I've been against this no winners/losers movement since it's inception -- because as that kid said, it's dumb and stupid. The fact is, there are and always will be winners and losers, and learning how to do both properly as a child is of pivotal importance in growing as a man or woman. These are lessons we are robbing modern children of when winning and losing is removed from the equation. Such as being gracious. Such as learning to get up when you've fallen and try again, to try harder, and to reaffirm yourself.

 

I've long felt that learning to live in this world begins at a very young age, and every time we try something like this to protect our children, the reality is that parents are only trying to protect themselves. Parents can't handle watching their children fail and cry because of it...it's easier to not keep score and tell them the world is inlaid with gold and everything's going to be all right and it's just about having fun, not learning anything valuable.

 

This has never been about the kids...it's about weak modern parenting.

 

I never knew it as a kid, but when it came to winning and losing, something was being instilled in me that would make all the difference in the world in competing in this world as an adult. It's sad that some people choose to rob their children of this because it's easier in the short term.

[southsider2k5]

I don't have problems with some of the really young teams de-emphasizing winning, but this is just stupid.

 

At the 4 to 5 year old end it works because most of the kids don't even know how to play the game. After that, it is worthless.

[Balta1701]

I don't believe what I'm going to write but it's time for someone to play Devil's advocate here.

 

Go watch a 59-0 NCAA football game. And I mean really sit there and watch it. There's plenty of them every year.

 

How does the side going down feel on that one? How much of a difference do those last 20 points make to the bottom line? How can anyone possibly argue that games like that are a positive for anyone. Horrible sportsmanship, basically you're taunting the other team.

 

Or, go to baseball. Ever play in a game with a 10 run mercy rule? I know I have. By the time it's 17-0 in the first inning, do you really want to keep playing so that one side can run up the score or do you want to quit and go drink a beer and swear at those guys for being such crappy sports?

[Y2HH]

At the 4 to 5 year old end it works because most of the kids don't even know how to play the game. After that, it is worthless.

 

Yea, when they're that young it doesn't matter because they don't know the game, the rules, or what they're even doing. Keeping score at that age is pointless because they don't even know what they're playing yet.

 

But after they do know what they're playing, it's modern lunacy.

[Y2HH]

I don't believe what I'm going to write but it's time for someone to play Devil's advocate here.

 

Go watch a 59-0 NCAA football game. And I mean really sit there and watch it. There's plenty of them every year.

 

How does the side going down feel on that one? How much of a difference do those last 20 points make to the bottom line? How can anyone possibly argue that games like that are a positive for anyone. Horrible sportsmanship, basically you're taunting the other team.

 

Or, go to baseball. Ever play in a game with a 10 run mercy rule? I know I have. By the time it's 17-0 in the first inning, do you really want to keep playing so that one side can run up the score or do you want to quit and go drink a beer and swear at those guys for being such crappy sports?

 

That's part of what I'm talking about. Learning to win or lose with grace and class.

 

Obviously these 59-0 NCAA football coaches/players have none. But removing scores from the game isn't going to fix that issue.

[StrangeSox]

Yea, when they're that young it doesn't matter because they don't know the game, the rules, or what they're even doing. Keeping score at that age is pointless because they don't even know what they're playing yet.

 

But after they do know what they're playing, it's modern lunacy.

 

Right, that was what I was getting at. At the really young ages, you're just learning how to play the game. It's not really competitive and the focus should be on teaching not win, win, win.

 

That said, I was on a soccer team that scored one goal all year, but I still remember having fun.

[Iwritecode]

What does this really teach the winners? We always tell kids to do their best and try their hardest. But if they are too good, then what do we tell them?

 

Still try but don't do your best?

[southsider2k5]

What does this really teach the winners? We always tell kids to do their best and try their hardest. But if they are too good, then what do we tell them?

 

Still try but don't do your best?

 

Its a great lesson for modern society. Don't succeed too much, or someone will say you don't deserve it, and you should be forced to give it to someone else.

[Controlled Chaos]

Its a great lesson for modern society. Don't succeed too much, or someone will say you don't deserve it, and you should be forced to give it to someone else.

I see what you did there.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't believe what I'm going to write but it's time for someone to play Devil's advocate here.

 

Go watch a 59-0 NCAA football game. And I mean really sit there and watch it. There's plenty of them every year.

 

How does the side going down feel on that one? How much of a difference do those last 20 points make to the bottom line? How can anyone possibly argue that games like that are a positive for anyone. Horrible sportsmanship, basically you're taunting the other team.

 

Or, go to baseball. Ever play in a game with a 10 run mercy rule? I know I have. By the time it's 17-0 in the first inning, do you really want to keep playing so that one side can run up the score or do you want to quit and go drink a beer and swear at those guys for being such crappy sports?

 

You get punched in the mouth, you come back stronger and more prepared the next go around. Every team that loses those games gains something in the process. To be great, you have to fall down first, you have to be embarassed, you have to suffer a huge hit on your pride. Anyone who has played a sport as a kid has experienced that. You feel like crap afterwards and you tell yourself that it's not going to happen again.

 

The mercy rule in baseball has more to do with efficiency than anything else (at least in my little league it did). When a team can't get off the field the whole schedule for the day gets out of whack.

 

And if Glenn Beck (or whoever) says this type of thinking will lead to our country's demise, I would agree with him. We're becoming a bunch of softies who are afraid to offend/disrespect/put any sort of negativity on anything. People like this have no backbone or thick skin to deal with anything anymore, and that's a horrible lesson to teach a teen.

 

[Y2HH]

You get punched in the mouth, you come back stronger and more prepared the next go around. Every team that loses those games gains something in the process. To be great, you have to fall down first, you have to be embarassed, you have to suffer a huge hit on your pride. Anyone who has played a sport as a kid has experienced that. You feel like crap afterwards and you tell yourself that it's not going to happen again.

 

The mercy rule in baseball has more to do with efficiency than anything else (at least in my little league it did). When a team can't get off the field the whole schedule for the day gets out of whack.

 

And if Glenn Beck (or whoever) says this type of thinking will lead to our country's demise, I would agree with him. We're becoming a bunch of softies who are afraid to offend/disrespect/put any sort of negativity on anything. People like this have no backbone or thick skin to deal with anything anymore, and that's a horrible lesson to teach a teen.

 

Then they'll complain when a foreign student comes here and takes their job -- legitimately, not illegally, mind you -- because unlike the future we are building here, they still understand why you have to be fiercely competitive in this world.

 

"The entire class was getting F's, and I found it too easy -- so I stopped at a B, because getting an A might make them all feel bad..."

 

Meanwhile the foreign student got an A++ and didn't care what the rest of their class did or didn't do.

 

I know this is directly related to sports, but these lessons of winning and losing go beyond sports.

[Balta1701]

So...the only lesson that matters is win at all costs, and sportsmanship should be laughed off as an antiquated useless idea?

[Y2HH]

So...the only lesson that matters is win at all costs, and sportsmanship should be laughed off as an antiquated useless idea?

 

At *all* costs? Err, not quite. This is akin to being Muslim and being a radical Muslim. There is a difference, so saying at "all" costs is what I'd consider extreme. But there is a happy medium when it comes to winning and doing it right.

[Balta1701]

At *all* costs? Err, not quite. This is akin to being Muslim and being a radical Muslim. There is a difference, so saying at "all" costs is what I'd consider extreme. But there is a happy medium when it comes to winning and doing it right.

So, then my question in reply would be...if you're in charge of a league where one or two teams have been running rampant and blowing everyone out and running up the score, to the point that half the players on your team don't want to even show up because it's no fun to face off against the team that has Bryce Harper at catcher, what do you do?

 

Do you sit by and let half the league's players quit because no one wants to put up with that any more and no one is having any fun, or do you try to come up with a rule that makes things more workable?

[Y2HH]

So, then my question in reply would be...if you're in charge of a league where one or two teams have been running rampant and blowing everyone out and running up the score, to the point that half the players on your team don't want to even show up because it's no fun to face off against the team that has Bryce Harper at catcher, what do you do?

 

Do you sit by and let half the league's players quit because no one wants to put up with that any more and no one is having any fun, or do you try to come up with a rule that makes things more workable?

 

I come up with a rule that doesn't allow a team of black belts to compete against white belts.

[Balta1701]

I come up with a rule that doesn't allow a team of black belts to compete against white belts.

So, basically, you come up with a rule that teaches the exact lesson about winning and losing that you decried a few posts above, about how if you're not good enough to win, you should go cry to someone else and try to get the rules changed.

 

See how it's not as open and shut as we'd like to think?

 

I don't like the solution they came up with. But let's not pretend that under certain circumstances, we might not follow the same course of logic they did.

[Y2HH]

So, basically, you come up with a rule that teaches the exact lesson about winning and losing that you decried a few posts above, about how if you're not good enough to win, you should go cry to someone else and try to get the rules changed.

 

See how it's not as open and shut as we'd like to think?

 

I don't like the solution they came up with. But let's not pretend that under certain circumstances, we might not follow the same course of logic they did.

 

No, not quite, but way to try to twist words.

 

You failed, but you tried.

 

Just like there is a A, AA, AAA, Japan, MLB, etc. There CAN be different skill levels at the same age group. That doesn't mean winning and losing cannot still be done and done with class. These are still valuable lessons, and fun can still be had while keeping score and understanding both victory and defeat.

 

But keep pretending otherwise, seems to work for you.

 

Not all skill levels are the same -- understand that first and foremost. You will never have "one" league where everyone fits, this goes for school, jobs, etc...some people are just better. That doesn't mean you can't learn the values of winning and losing and trying harder after failure regardless of this natural inequality of the evil evil world.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Y2HH

[JorgeFabregas]

Ok, I give up. What does this soccer league have to do with social justice?

Edited June 2, 2010 by JorgeFabregas

[Balta1701]

No, not quite, but way to try to twist words.

 

You failed, but you tried.

 

Just like there is a A, AA, AAA, Japan, MLB, etc. There CAN be different skill levels at the same age group. That doesn't mean winning and losing cannot still be done and done with class. These are still valuable lessons, and fun can still be had while keeping score and understanding both victory and defeat.

 

But keep pretending otherwise, seems to work for you.

And now let's imagine there's 6 teams. So, you try to come up with different levels, and you figure out rapidly that you can't...you wind up with ridiculous splits like 2 teams in 1 league who always play each other and 4 in another.

 

No matter how you want to look at it, you've let your major, overarching principle of "teaching them a lesson" go, and so I can keep coming up with scenarios that will make the rules you require more and more complex/unworkable.

[Y2HH]

And now let's imagine there's 6 teams. So, you try to come up with different levels, and you figure out rapidly that you can't...you wind up with ridiculous splits like 2 teams in 1 league who always play each other and 4 in another.

 

No matter how you want to look at it, you've let your major, overarching principle of "teaching them a lesson" go, and so I can keep coming up with scenarios that will make the rules you require more and more complex/unworkable.

 

Not all skill levels are the same -- understand that first and foremost. You will never have "one" league where everyone fits, this goes for school, jobs, etc...some people are just better. That doesn't mean you can't learn the values of winning and losing and trying harder after failure regardless of this natural inequality of the evil evil world.

 

The lesson of winning and losing and getting up after you've fallen remains intact, regardless.