Joe Cowley says our season is over: do you agree?

[whitesoxfan101]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox01.article

 

I know most around here don't like Cowley, but do you agree with him? I know this much: his ideas to "clean up the mess" aren't things I necessarily agree with.

[fathom]

It was over two weeks ago. Twins have played a tougher schedule than we have, and now they have Kubel starting to heat up. Plain and simple, they're a better team than the Sox.

Edited June 2, 2010 by fathom

[chisoxt]

It was over two weeks ago. Twins have played a tougher schedule than ours, and now they have Kubel starting to heat up. Plain and simple, they're a better team than the Sox.

I also find it funny that the meathead contingent of our fandom believes that there is a lot of luck involved in the Twin past and present success, ie, the astroturf, the baggie, the roof on their old stadium, etc, etc. All I kept hearing all winter was how terrible the Twins were going to play outdoors in their new stadium.

 

What these people dont get is the fact that the Twins have been kicking our ass for 10 years now and will continue to do so for a long time.

[Melissa1334]

if buehrle and peavy keep pitching the way they have,we have no chance. we shouldnt be losing this game and we are, just not good

[kev211]

I also find it funny that the meathead contingent of our fandom believes that there is a lot of luck involved in the Twin past and present success, ie, the astroturf, the baggie, the roof on their old stadium, etc, etc. All I kept hearing all winter was how terrible the Twins were going to play outdoors in their new stadium.

 

What these people dont get is the fact that the Twins have been kicking our ass for 10 years now and will continue to do so for a long time.

They may have won more division titles then us in that span, but we won more world series titles and that is all that matters.

[flavum]

The Sox have these next two weeks to get hot. Like 10-2 hot. If they don't get to .500 very soon, it's over. So it's probably over.

[LVSoxFan]

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with most of his points.

 

I'm preparing myself mentally for the inevitable departure of my two favorite players, Buehrle and A.J. I also think Konerko and Jenks are goners, as will be Floyd.

 

THEN I read a blurb about Flowers' hitting woes in the minors and I can't help but think: WT F**** is the problem with this team and hitting for the past four years?

 

How is it that Minnesota can put a contender out there year after year and we seem to be watching the same movie since second half, 2006? Don't get me wrong, Blackout Tuesday was awesome when that happened but let's face it--neither of us was that good that year and it was almost like a contest to see who could give away the AL Central--in fact, it literally became that.

 

I'll be going this weekend to catch some of our stars' last performances. I think there's no way around this.

 

[Milkman delivers]

It's been over.

[ThunderBolt]

Sadly, our fate was probably sealed during Spring, it just took us a couple weeks into the season to realize just how fundamentally flawed this team really was.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm inclined to agree. And it has nothing to do with Ozzie's managing or KW not doing enough to upgrade the team during the winter. Our money guys, save Rios and Danks, have not performed.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sadly, our fate was probably sealed during Spring, it just took us a couple weeks into the season to realize just how fundamentally flawed this team really was.

 

I'd like to know who we could've added that would've offset the crap that has been Beckham, CQ, Ramirez, Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle and Jenks? This isn't aimed at you, but I get so sick and tired of the constant venom spewed towards Ozzie and Kenny. Blame some of these f***in' million dollar players that are s***tin' the f***in' bed.

[whitesoxfan101]

I also find it funny that the meathead contingent of our fandom believes that there is a lot of luck involved in the Twin past and present success, ie, the astroturf, the baggie, the roof on their old stadium, etc, etc. All I kept hearing all winter was how terrible the Twins were going to play outdoors in their new stadium.

 

What these people dont get is the fact that the Twins have been kicking our ass for 10 years now and will continue to do so for a long time.

 

There was luck involved with their success, as they built a small market, small payroll team around their ballpark. But they've transitioned into the new ballpark nicely by building a bigger payroll, bigger market type roster around the knowledge that their new ballpark will be full everyday. That's why they are still good now, even though they won't be winning any AL Pennants with that starting staff.

 

As for our season, it's been over for a long time. I'd wait to make moves until July (other than dumping AJ since we have to soon) since you'll get more offers and thus more value then, but we're done and have been.

 

I'd like to know who we could've added that would've offset the crap that has been Beckham, CQ, Ramirez, Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle and Jenks? This isn't aimed at you, but I get so sick and tired of the constant venom spewed towards Ozzie and Kenny. Blame some of these f***in' million dollar players that are s***tin' the f***in' bed.

 

You can't fire 25 players, but you can fire the manager and GM who oversee the 100 million dollar payroll that is going to be below .500 for the 3rd time in 4 years.

Edited June 2, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Melissa1334]

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with most of his points.

 

I'm preparing myself mentally for the inevitable departure of my two favorite players, Buehrle and A.J. I also think Konerko and Jenks are goners, as will be Floyd.

 

THEN I read a blurb about Flowers' hitting woes in the minors and I can't help but think: WT F**** is the problem with this team and hitting for the past four years?

How is it that Minnesota can put a contender out there year after year and we seem to be watching the same movie since second half, 2006? Don't get me wrong, Blackout Tuesday was awesome when that happened but let's face it--neither of us was that good that year and it was almost like a contest to see who could give away the AL Central--in fact, it literally became that.

 

I'll be going this weekend to catch some of our stars' last performances. I think there's no way around this.

tough to say..somtimes i think walker has to go but its the minor leaguers too and the cubs got the "hitting guru" and that hasnt done anything. sure they have a few guys with good avg's but at the end of the day its the same thing, they cant get the runs in. the twins just seem to do everything right ,how thome was talking about.

[ThunderBolt]

I'd like to know who we could've added that would've offset the crap that has been Beckham, CQ, Ramirez, Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle and Jenks? This isn't aimed at you, but I get so sick and tired of the constant venom spewed towards Ozzie and Kenny. Blame some of these f***in' million dollar players that are s***tin' the f***in' bed.

I don't have any answers. What i can tell you is that i'd have taken a different approach in assembling this team, then management did. For one, i'd have put a greater importance on bringing in high-OBP guys, i'd have gotten an actual DH, and i wouldn't have left this years fate in the hands of retreads and lightning in bottles.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[Melissa1334]

I don't have any answers. What i can tell you is that i'd have taken a different approach in assembling this team, then management did. For one, i'd have put a greater importance on bringing in high-OBP guys, i'd have gotten an actual DH, and i wouldn't have left this years fate in the hands of retreads and lightning in bottles.

well atleast we got lucky and they yankees outbidded us on johnson, hurt like always

 

side note, i wonder how much different baseball would be if players got paid at the end of the year based on performance, im guessing theyd do a lot better and there wouldnt be as many injuries

[caulfield12]

Getting Cliff Lee and paying him $20 million is insane. Same with throwing huge money at Crawford and Dunn. FUHHGETABOUT IT.

 

If 2005 taught ANY lesson, it's that you had to find the right mix of veteran players and "one year wonders" and ride it to the end of the World Series. But none of those guys, Hermanson, Pods, Iguchi, Dye, AJ, Vizcaino, El Duque...were "expensive."

 

Maybe Dye and El Duque, but compared to what Cowley wants to pay Lee?

 

Trading Floyd at his lowest possible value is asinine as well, same with Quentin. Now you can argue that if they get really really hot in pressure-less games for the next 4 months that we should sell them, but that's another argument. You could also throw Alexei into that same discussion. We all know the upside of Ramirez, and we're all quite familiar with the flip-side.

 

Trading Peavy or Buerhle at below par value is silly as well.

 

If you want to maximize value in a trade, see what Rios will get on the open market...if you don't like the offers, you pull him off the trading block and you have your CF for the next five years, either way, it's a win-win situation for KW.

 

Might as well try to trade Pierre and Teahen while we're at it, Andruw Jones, the whole roster basically, except for Thornton, Beckham, Santos.

 

Then you have the whole issue of keeping/extending/trading Mr. Danks.

 

Lots of interesting discussions will happen here over the next 8 months. Too bad most of it won't be about the games that actually used to matter.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2010 by caulfield12

[EvilJester99]

I think I hear the fat lady warming up....

[jphat007]

It's been over for awhile. The Twins just hit the more difficult part of their schedule, but now they will put us in the woodshed.

[GreatScott82]

watching this game tonight pretty much sums up the season. WE ARE BAD!

[justBLAZE]

I voted yes.

 

I actually hoped for a major win streak here, like going 8-1 on this home stand, but Sox will be lucky to be a .500 team come October 4th.

[Brian]

Cowley really went out on a limb with that.

 

The guy seems miserable covering the Sox. He mocks them whenever he can. Maybe he should quit.

[pktmotion]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox01.article

 

I know most around here don't like Cowley, but do you agree with him? I know this much: his ideas to "clean up the mess" aren't things I necessarily agree with.

 

Don't know how realistic it is for the White Sox to try and sign Cliff Lee. Giving that higher market teams could easily up their offers and chase the Sox out of bidding. If we're rebuilding the staff, we should look into bargain arms like Lilly or Kuroda. I'd be in for trading Buehrle or Floyd, but it'll be difficult to get value for them. Saying Hudson can replicate what Floyd is doing now, seems a bit irrational. I have no doubt Hudson will become a great pitcher, but relying on him to come a be a solid #3-4 next year(his rookie year) is posing more questions than answering them.

 

As for the bullpen, it's a no brainer to try and trade Bobby and if you can't non-tender him. IMO there are better options out there than Putz. Fix the bullpen top down. Who closes, Santos or Thornton? If it's Santos all you do is find RHSU. If its Thornton find LHSU. The rest will fall in place. I would argue in finding a good mop up guy, like go figure the one we non-tendered(Carasco). Would've helped some struggling SP this year if we still had him.

 

Now the offense. I agree trade Konerko and AJ. Wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Konerko at a discount. Crawford, Dunn, or even Werth could be a stretch but would go tremendously to helping the offense, but would try and find bargains like Conor Jackson(possible non-tender), Cristian Guzman, or even Jim Thome(would help Beckham as a mentor).

 

I think Cowley is failing to mention a change of personnel. If Ozzie stays, his coaches need to be reassessed. Walker and Cox should be let go.

I agree with Joe, KW should start thinking about 2011 but some of his suggestions are unrealistic.

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Cowley really went out on a limb with that.

 

The guy seems miserable covering the Sox. He mocks them whenever he can. Maybe he should quit.

 

Haha he's used to covering teams that are either competitive or interesting. This team is neither, unless somebody gets fired.

[WCSox]

Cowley really went out on a limb with that.

 

The guy seems miserable covering the Sox. He mocks them whenever he can. Maybe he should quit.

 

Cowley's career may be over soon as well.

 

[SoxAce]

I've said it was over for a while now. In fact, I'll commend my boy J4L once again for still believing in this team longer than most posters.