Joe Cowley says our season is over: do you agree?

[iamshack]

Posts like this make me laugh. The things people complained most about in February - lack of power, rotating DH, bullpen, Teahen's bat, Pierre's all-around game... are not the main reasons why this team has sucked. So don't give me this crap that you were somehow preternatural in knowing how this season would go, and smarter than everyone else.

 

This team is 7.5 games back because the vaunted starting pitching has an ERA north of 5, and many of the key offensive players have sucked (Quentin, Beckham, Ramirez, Pierzynski). These were things that were not anticipated. Sure, some people had conerns about Quentin specifically, or about Peavy's recovery. But I would like someone to show me any poster who predicted the starting staff would be 4/5 bad, and that all four of those guys would be hitting 50-100 points below normal for the first two months. Good luck.

Yeah, to be honest, no one could have anticipated this team sucking in the way it has sucked this year.

 

As bad as we have been offensively, if the strength of our club was performing as they are capable, we would be above .500 right now.

[WCSox]

Of players with at least 25 plate appearances, Teahen is 4th on the team in OPS.

 

[BigSqwert]

Of players with at least 25 plate appearances, Teahen is 4th on the team in OPS.

That's sad.

[knightni]

That likely applies to Thome. But the preponderance of slap-hitting retreads on the wrong side of 30 is due to budgetary constraints more than anything else.

 

 

I first read that as "slap-hitting retards" - my bad.

[Y2HH]

It drives me batty to see people who think the 2005 team won because of small ball. However, its equally annoying when people think small ball didn't have SOME impact. The 2005 team was great primarily due to pitching, but it wouldn't have been nearly as good if it wasn't also quite good at (in order of importance): defense, home runs, situational hitting, and yes, small ball/manufacturing runs when the offense had a down day.

 

All those things needed to be there for 2005 to have happened. Not some - all.

 

IMO, the 2005 team won because they did just about everything, and they did it all well and exactly when necessary, from hitting a LOT of HR's, to stealing, to pitching, to unlikely "clutch" hits.

 

When teams have that much balance, they are going to win a lot.

[The Critic]

Posts like this make me laugh. The things people complained most about in February - lack of power, rotating DH, bullpen, Teahen's bat, Pierre's all-around game... are not the main reasons why this team has sucked. So don't give me this crap that you were somehow preternatural in knowing how this season would go, and smarter than everyone else.

 

This team is 7.5 games back because the vaunted starting pitching has an ERA north of 5, and many of the key offensive players have sucked (Quentin, Beckham, Ramirez, Pierzynski). These were things that were not anticipated. Sure, some people had conerns about Quentin specifically, or about Peavy's recovery. But I would like someone to show me any poster who predicted the starting staff would be 4/5 bad, and that all four of those guys would be hitting 50-100 points below normal for the first two months. Good luck.

 

Does it really matter HOW the toilet water gets to the sewers?

 

[whitesoxfan101]

This team is 7.5 games back because the vaunted starting pitching has an ERA north of 5, and many of the key offensive players have sucked (Quentin, Beckham, Ramirez, Pierzynski). These were things that were not anticipated. Sure, some people had conerns about Quentin specifically, or about Peavy's recovery. But I would like someone to show me any poster who predicted the starting staff would be 4/5 bad, and that all four of those guys would be hitting 50-100 points below normal for the first two months. Good luck.

 

I agree and disagree with this post. One thing that was predictable was that this offense was not going to be worth much of anything. We're 10th in the AL in runs and on pace to score around 700 runs, which I think is about what most people expected. We've had masterful performance (to the point of overachieving) by Konerko and Rios, and I think the only truly shocking underperformance so far offensively has been Gordon Beckham (although maybe I was in the minority expecting AJ to suck this year.)

 

However, I am with you about the pitching staff. If you had told me the offense would be where it is right now, I'd tell you we'd only be a couple/few games behind Minnesota and right in the race due to our outstanding pitching, particularly from the starters. For our staff to have a 4.70 ERA and only be ahead of Cleveland and Kansas City among AL teams is absolutely shocking, and I don't think anybody could have seen it coming, even with the Buehrle concerns from the way last year ended and wondering about Peavy moving to the AL.

 

The offense is reasonably and expectedly mediocre, but for the pitching to be this bad (even worse than the offense has been really) is just shocking. It would have been reasonable to think this staff could finish top 5 in the AL in ERA, if not top 3, but it's just killed us.

Edited June 4, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[WCSox]

I agree and disagree with this post. One thing that was predictable was that this offense was not going to be worth much of anything. We're 10th in the AL in runs and on pace to score around 700 runs, which I think is about what most people expected. We've had masterful performance (to the point of overachieving) by Konerko and Rios, and I think the only truly shocking underperformance so far offensively has been Gordon Beckham (although maybe I was in the minority expecting AJ to suck this year.)

 

You actually expected four veterans to hit THIS far below their career numbers?

 

AJ - .604 OPS (career average .748)

 

Alexei - .651 OPS (career average .740)

 

Pierre - .589 OPS (career average .715)

 

Quentin - .723 OPS (career average .827)

 

 

[lostfan]

You actually expected four veterans to hit THIS far below their career numbers?

 

AJ - .604 OPS (career average .748)

 

Alexei - .651 OPS (career average .740)

 

Pierre - .589 OPS (career average .715)

 

Quentin - .723 OPS (career average .827)

Well, with Alexei, his predictably bad April is weighing his OPS down so far this season compared to his career average which is 2 Aprils across 2 whole seasons.

[Jordan4life_2007]

No more Mr. positive for me. This team is absolutely a despicable joke. There's plenty of blame to go around for everybody. This organization is in complete disarray.

[greg775]

The problem is KW can't really make any productive trades until after the break when contenders are buying.

Only guy he can trade now is AJ cause of his no trade deadline deal and frankly, who wants AJ?

Is there a fit for him?

He can't throw anymore and his hitting is nothing to write home about.

I mean isn't his arm toast?? Not flaming, but who would want AJ? I guess if Kendall is still playing, AJ can find a home, but who would be dying to get AJ?

[Dick Allen]

This team won 3 games in a row once this season when they swept Seattle. Its a bad team. KW had an awful offseason.

[fathom]

This team won 3 games in a row once this season when they swept Seattle. Its a bad team. KW had an awful offseason.

 

2 straight AWFUL offseasons. The Swisher trade to the Yankees was awful, and the Javy trade to the Braves has the potential to be a huge miss.

[Dick Allen]

2 straight AWFUL offseasons. The Swisher trade to the Yankees was awful, and the Javy trade to the Braves has the potential to be a huge miss.

1/3 of the way through the season and one 3 game winning streak, and only a couple 2 game winning streaks, and there are still people thinking remaining status quo can still result in a successful season? KW, OG and JR should be embarrassed.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Dick Allen

[pktmotion]

2 straight AWFUL offseasons. The Swisher trade to the Yankees was awful, and the Javy trade to the Braves has the potential to be a huge miss.

 

I don't understand this. I thought Flowers was a good pickup for Javy. Lillibridge is garbage, but Rodriguez and Gilmore are still young talent that could come up(in a trade or through the organization.) I'd love to forget the Swisher trade (both sides) but I think you're being too hasty in writing off the Vazquez trade.

 

This past offseason was truly disappointing in losing Dye, Thome, and Pods and trying to replace them with Jones, Teahen, and Pierre But the majority of this season's woes has been the incredible underachievement of our pitching staff.

 

Our strength last year became our weakness this year.

 

go figure.

[WCSox]

It's interesting how managers, coaches, and front office folk are always at fault, but veterans who don't perform at a level anywhere near their career numbers escape blame.

Edited June 5, 2010 by WCSox

[greg775]

I wish KW could reverse all but one of his moves and this would be our lineup. Is there any reason to believe we'd have any worse of a team? Then he could try it again via the trade route. I realize Oz is as much to blame since he wanted Omar, Pierre, etc.

 

1B-Paulie. 2B-Getz/Nix. SS-Lexi. 3B-Beckham (maybe he'd never have slumped had he kept his old stomping grounds; I can wish).

LF-Pods/Quentin. CF-Rios (we'll keep that acquisition). RF-Quentin/Dye. Give some days off to the combo of Dye/Pods/CQ

 

DH-Thome/Dye

C-AJ

 

Rotation: Mark, Floyd, Danks, Clayton Richard, Freddy.

Bullpen: Same middle relief stiffs as last year hoping for bouncebacks, plus Thornton, Bob.

 

WIth the combination of veterans and youngsters adding some zest, isn't this a MUCH BETTER mix???

Thanks, Kenny/Oz for the bad tinkering.

 

--if you think I'm a moron/asshole, just think. I almost made this a new thread. think how mad you'd be reading that!

We could have had the plodders one more year, getting closer to the time Danks and Viciedo and Flowers are ready?? Think bout that.

Edited June 5, 2010 by greg775

[pktmotion]

It's interesting how managers, coaches, and front office folk are always at fault, but veterans who don't perform at a level anywhere near their career numbers escape blame.

 

You can't fire 25 players. Managers are either hated or overrated, the players make them look good. But apathy is pretty contagious.

[caulfield12]

Simple to say we should have stood pat:

 

1) Kept Thome for DH (although Jones has been about the same production for similar price)....but Kotsay's at-bats would have been lowered, although TMK has been one of our better hitters as of late

 

2) Reverse the Ely for Pierre trade...Pods stays in LF, we're not stuck with Pierre in 2011

 

3) Reverse the Peavy for Richard/Poreda/Russell/Carter trade

 

4) Never traded for Mark Teahen....Anderson/Fields/Getz don't really matter in the overall scheme of things, though

 

 

Our rotation would be Danks, Buehrle, Floyd, Richard and Ely/Garcia

 

Mitchell would be banging on the door with an MVP Year in the Southern League. Flowers would be ready to replace AJ at season's end, Viciedo for Konerko and Hudson could be brought into the back of the rotation or long man.

 

The money saved on Peavy, Teahen and Pierre (not to mention Vizquel) could have been used on getting a real DH if they didn't want to go with Thome or Andruw Jones.

 

They also could have signed Orlando Hudson for 2B, kept Beckham at 3B and never traded for Teahen. That would have been my move. Or bringing Uribe back.

 

 

[pktmotion]

Simple to say we should have stood pat:

 

1) Kept Thome for DH (although Jones has been about the same production for similar price)....but Kotsay's at-bats would have been lowered, although TMK has been one of our better hitters as of late

 

2) Reverse the Ely for Pierre trade...Pods stays in LF, we're not stuck with Pierre in 2011

 

3) Reverse the Peavy for Richard/Poreda/Russell/Carter trade

 

4) Never traded for Mark Teahen....Anderson/Fields/Getz don't really matter in the overall scheme of things, though

 

 

Our rotation would be Danks, Buehrle, Floyd, Richard and Ely/Garcia

 

Mitchell would be banging on the door with an MVP Year in the Southern League. Flowers would be ready to replace AJ at season's end, Viciedo for Konerko and Hudson could be brought into the back of the rotation or long man.

 

The money saved on Peavy, Teahen and Pierre (not to mention Vizquel) could have been used on getting a real DH if they didn't want to go with Thome or Andruw Jones.

 

They also could have signed Orlando Hudson for 2B, kept Beckham at 3B and never traded for Teahen. That would have been my move. Or bringing Uribe back.

 

Guys lets relax a bit on wanting a re-up for the Peavy deal. He's a great pitcher. He was had for nothing. Any GM would do that deal everytime. Is Jake struggling sure but to regret sending Poreda, Richard, Russell, and Carter for him is laughable.

 

And Ely is benefiting heavily from the NL-West.

[chisoxfan09]

Time to do a firesale and dump salary where possible and try and get some nice pieces for whatever we can sell off. This team reeks too much now.

Edited June 5, 2010 by chisoxfan09

[JorgeFabregas]

Mitchell would be banging on the door with an MVP Year in the Southern League.

What?

[Jordan4life_2007]

What?

 

Make that a double what?

[SoxAce]

What?

 

 

Make that a double what?

 

Maybe caulfield was saying if we didn't do any of those moves, Joey Cora wouldn't have been stupid enough to put Mitchell in LF as a defensive replacement, playing out of his usual position, in a spring training game and he would be healthy now raking or something.

[WCSox]

You can't fire 25 players. Managers are either hated or overrated, the players make them look good. But apathy is pretty contagious.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the players have failed the organization, not the other way around.