Joe Cowley says our season is over: do you agree?

[WCSox]

I'd like to know who we could've added that would've offset the crap that has been Beckham, CQ, Ramirez, Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle and Jenks? This isn't aimed at you, but I get so sick and tired of the constant venom spewed towards Ozzie and Kenny. Blame some of these f***in' million dollar players that are s***tin' the f***in' bed.

 

Exactly. This problem was evident last year as well.

 

[Real]

who are the 5 people that said no? show yourselves! haha

 

buehrle sucks, and seems to be getting old at 31. peavy is possibly hiding an injury (Dan Bernstein is convinced of this), danks can't seem to throw less than 100 pitches through 4 innings and floyd is absolute s***

 

meanwhile our offense can't hit consistantly, and hasn't at any point this year (our only 3-game win streak came at the hands of 2 walk-off wins, and a go-ahead run in the bottom of the 8th inning, against the mariners)

 

after this debacle ends, heads have to roll. Ozzie needs to go, KW needs to probably go, promote Hahn, and perhaps promote Cora or hire Torre? idk

 

keep beckham at 2nd, call up Morel in 2011, see if Paulie will sign a 1 year deal for about 7.5-8m with incentives, bring back Jones, KEEP RIOS obviously, hope for a rebound in the rotation/see if Peavy needs surgery BEFORE 2010 ends, that way its' possible that he could pitch by June/July in 2011. try to package Danks2+Flowers NOW for pitching (we need a f***ing left handed reliver with good stuff, with his head screwed on straight). Let AJ's 10/5 kick in, sign him to a 1 year contract for 2011. You know he doesn't want to play anywhere else, so it'd probably take about 4-5m for a 1 year contract, maybe with incentive bonuses

 

Pierre (LF, ugh)

AJ ©

Beckham (2B, rebounds imo)

Rios (CF)

Paulie (1B)

Quentin (RF/DH)

Teahen (RF/DH)

Morel (3B)

Ramirez (SS)

 

I know some people are going to say "FIRE SALE FIRE SALE!", and perhaps that happens, but it would only happen if KW is most certainly fired, which we all know won't happen. My wanting KW and Ozzie gone are my own personal opinions, which I know don't stand a chance in hell of happening

[greg775]

You can't fire 25 players, but you can fire the manager and GM who oversee the 100 million dollar payroll that is going to be below .500 for the 3rd time in 4 years.

 

If that makes you feel better, go ahead and axe the manager. We might even play well for a week after that like teams normally do when the manager is axed.

His point was well taken. The players deserve the responsibility for sucking.

Cowley had some interesting ideas, but he's putting too much money in Lee. It's not working with Jake and could just as easily fail with the immortal Lee.

 

At least Cowley had a plan. KW better have a plan. Simply trading away AJ, Paulie, Mark, Jenks, etc., won't guarantee squat for next year or the following year or the following year.

The time to trade them all will be the time of year teams traditionally make deals, when contenders become buyers. If you are going to trade Mark, Paulie, etc., do it near the all star break or shortly after and you better have a semblance of a master plan or we are looking at .400 ball for years to come.

Edited June 2, 2010 by greg775

[daggins]

Yeah, it's done. I don't know if firing Ozzie will help anything, it would almost assuredly be just a token gesture - some accountability I suppose. I think we are more likely to see KW in a new position and Hahn or someone else as GM. I don't agree with signing Lee or Crawford, but it is becoming more clear that KW's method of plugging holes - find a bargain and pray - isn't working as often as it has in the past. So while I don't think that he has the right guys (and he must be joking about Uribe - he is gonna make more than we should give him next year) I do think the Sox need some top-tier free agent talent. Werth, Carlos Pena (should be cheaper after a down season), someone of that ilk.

[JohnCangelosi]

None of this matters until we get a manager that can make the right decisions. This is Ozzie's team, and he deserves to take the fall for it and be fired now or at the end of the year along with the majority of his coaching staff.

 

Let's see what kind of prospects we can get for:

 

AJ

PK

Jenks

Buehrle

 

I'd like to keep TCQ, Beckham, Rios, Danks, and Floyd to build around.

[greg775]

None of this matters until we get a manager that can make the right decisions. This is Ozzie's team, and he deserves to take the fall for it and be fired now or at the end of the year along with the majority of his coaching staff.

 

Let's see what kind of prospects we can get for:

 

AJ

PK

Jenks

Buehrle

 

I'd like to keep TCQ, Beckham, Rios, Danks, and Floyd to build around.

 

My guess is we won't get squat for AJ cause the deadline is coming and teams know it. So we get s*** for AJP who can't throw well.

Hopefully we can get more for the other guys. I'd keep Thornton on the must keep list as well.

[daggins]

Yeah we pretty much just get to not pay AJ something like 4 million dollars. In fact I would guess we get crap for all those guys, given their salaries. Saving money is a big deal, though, so i'm still for it. Use that money on draft/international scouting/free agents.

[WCSox]

None of this matters until we get a manager that can make the right decisions. This is Ozzie's team, and he deserves to take the fall for it and be fired now or at the end of the year along with the majority of his coaching staff.

 

As bad as some of Ozzie's decisions have been, I don't think that's the problem. The major problem that I saw last year (which may have carried over into this year) was that players didn't seem to be listening to the coaching staff (as evidenced by their terrible situational hitting) and appeared to be just going through the motions by the time that August rolled around. And this isn't a new phenomenon. Coaches in most professional sports tend to not stick around forever because their ability to project authority and urgency eventually wears off, complacency sets in, and players eventually just show up to collect a paycheck. Perhaps the Sox clubhouse has reached that point with Ozzie and his staff?

 

Edited June 2, 2010 by WCSox

[DBAHO]

I voted for yes, I'm usually an optimist but I just can't see us getting close to Minnesota this season, not when our SP has been below average besides Danks, and our hitting is just subpar as per usual.

 

Major changes need to be made (whether that's coaches, Ozzie etc. we'll wait and see), but I don't know if it'll be happening.

[caulfield12]

None of this matters until we get a manager that can make the right decisions. This is Ozzie's team, and he deserves to take the fall for it and be fired now or at the end of the year along with the majority of his coaching staff.

 

Let's see what kind of prospects we can get for:

 

AJ

PK

Jenks

Buehrle

 

I'd like to keep TCQ, Beckham, Rios, Danks, and Floyd to build around.

 

Why Quentin and not Ramirez?

 

Ramirez is cheaper and plays a premium position....it's a lot harder to replace a SS than it is to replace a sub-par defensive corner OF/DH with a 720 OPS.

 

 

 

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

It's over. I like Cowley, I think he's a straight shooter. When he mocks the sox all he's doing is speaking the truth.

[JohnCangelosi]

Why Quentin and not Ramirez?

 

Ramirez is cheaper and plays a premium position....it's a lot harder to replace a SS than it is to replace a sub-par defensive corner OF/DH with a 720 OPS.

I agree to keeping Alexei as well, just don't consider him a nucleus type player, that's all. But you're right, a guy making $1M per putting up .270 20 and 75 with average defense is not easy to replace at SS at all. I have never understood the trade Alexei talk here generally speaking because he's cheap and puts up decent numbers.

 

[BearSox]

Personally, I'd trade Ramirez. He's only cheap for 1 more year I believe, and he's just too eratic, IMO.

 

His offense is good and when gets hot, he's a damn good hitter. But he tries to be the cuban babe ruth and pull everything and that gets awfully frustrating when you just need him to poke that outside pitch over the first basemans head when the tying run is on 2nd or 3rd.

 

Also, his D is awful when he isn't rushed. On pure reaction, he's damn good. However, when he's got time, he short arms throws, misplays routine grounders, etc. Its one thing to make the great play like Alexei can, but first and foremost you got to make the routine play.

 

I like Alexei, but if he goes on a tear and we got teams interested, and we get a really good offer, I would take it.

[daggins]

I'd certainly consider Ramirez but i'd think the Sox would need to get something useful in return for him since he is cheap and fairly good. His range is a biiig plus and he gets to a lot of balls most guys can only dream on.

[BearSox]

I'd certainly consider Ramirez but i'd think the Sox would need to get something useful in return for him since he is cheap and fairly good. His range is a biiig plus and he gets to a lot of balls most guys can only dream on.

Agreed, it would have to be a really good package. I wouldn't trade him for peanuts, but a team in need of a SS could be willing to give us quite the package for him.

 

Also, I'd be willing to try Beckham out at SS if he shows decent enough range and can make all the routine plays. Having a guy who can cover a ton of ground is great, but you win ball games by making the routine plays and thats something we need more out of our defense.

[Lemon_44]

I don't know their farm system at all but you would think St.Louis would have an interest in MB. They are locked in a battle with the Reds and look at the success they have had in reclamation projects like Loshe, Piniero, and Penny over the last few years. And i wouldn't even say Buehrle is a reclamation project yet.

[hogan873]

I said yes, it's over. Now is the time we start wondering who gets traded and what do the Sox get in return. The trouble right now is the poor performance of some of the players that should/will be traded.

 

I see AJ going before his 10/5 deadline, but there won't be much coming back...it'll be more of a money move.

 

Actually, many of the traded will be more about money than what comes back.

 

Konerko may be traded, but I'm not sure. If the Sox have no plan to re-sign him then he needs to be traded so the Sox get something back.

 

I'm completely frustrated about Peavy, but he's not going anywhere.

 

I love Rios and hopes he sticks around. If the Sox are going to "rebuild", he needs to be a cornerstone of the future.

 

Regardless of who gets traded, KW and Ozzie should be ashamed of themselves for assemblying this team of maybes and hopes. I realize that it wouldn't be as bad as it is if guys like Quentin, Beckham, Peavy, Floyd were performing well. But imagine how much worse the rotating DH idea would look if that was the only big issue!

 

Throw in the towel, make some trades, free up some money, and get ready for 2011. And sorry Joe, no way do the Sox sign Cliff Lee for $20 million a year.

[RockRaines]

Our pitching has yet to get hot which is encouraging, if they could get hot and win lets say 7 or 8 in a row and then continue winning series we could jump back into it. However its not very likely.

[hogan873]

Our pitching has yet to get hot which is encouraging, if they could get hot and win lets say 7 or 8 in a row and then continue winning series we could jump back into it. However its not very likely.

If Peavy, Buehrle, and Floyd can get their heads out of their asses and start pitching like they should, things would look better. And I agree that it's encouraging that with their improvement, the Sox can start winning series. Unfortunately, I also agree that it's not likely.

 

If 2010 was similar to the past few years where the Tigers, Twins, and Sox were all mediocre and battling to lose the division I would feel better about the Sox's chances if the pitching was to heat up. But, the Twins seem like the real deal this year. The Sox need to start playing .600 ball right now and hope for the Twins to slump a bit. Time is running out, however, and I think KW will start dealing soon.

[LittleHurt05]

Our pitching has yet to get hot which is encouraging, if they could get hot and win lets say 7 or 8 in a row and then continue winning series we could jump back into it. However its not very likely.

 

I have been thinking the same thing, but I feel less and less confident that MB, JFP, & Gavin are gonna turn it around that much to get us on a hot streak. Not to mention, I could see our offense hitting a funk then and us losing 2-1 & 1-0 games instead of 9-6 & 8-5 games.

[NorthSideSox72]

So I've been one of the people preaching patience. Too many hitters were hitting well below career norms, too many starters pitching well worse than expected, and now the weather is warming up and the schedule is getting easier for June.

 

But, as of today, I am officially migrating to the its-over camp. Its a sad day. But the reality is that, even if TCQ, Beckham and others in the lineup get it back together, and even if Peavy and MB and Floyd get back to form... it just won't be enough. I think our chances of winning the Central at this point are about 1 in 50. And this division won't produce a wild card.

 

I think this team will improve, and get back above .500, but ultimately fall short.

 

Time to look for 2011 and beyond - trade some valuable pieces for prospects or young players, try to unload some expensive contracts if possible, bring up a few guys from the farm to look at, invest a little more in a few draft picks, fire Ozzie.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Cowley really went out on a limb with that.

 

The guy seems miserable covering the Sox. He mocks them whenever he can. Maybe he should quit.

 

All he did was steal Jay Mariotti's schtick. He was a much better writer back in the Southtown days when at least acted intelligent.

[JPN366]

Who's blog inspired Cowley to write this story?

[ThunderBolt]

Our pitching has yet to get hot which is encouraging, if they could get hot and win lets say 7 or 8 in a row and then continue winning series we could jump back into it. However its not very likely.

I wouldn’t’ describe our pitching staff not getting on track as encouraging. There’s no guarantee that they’ll ever figure it out. In fact, it’s incredibly discouraging to think that this team’s success pended on them being elite from day one, and they’ve been far from it. If they ever click in place they’re still going to have to contend with an eight game deficit and a Twins team whose management is perfectly willing to upgrade this year.

[Y2HH]

Aside from opening day, this has not been a fun season...at all.

 

Thank goodness for the Hawks.