If You Want a Top Prospect

[ThunderBolt]

Thornton should never be the closer on this team, unless we have a dominant lefty-arm to fill his void. With Putz and Jenks gone, Thoronton becomes even more valuable in his current role, Santos probably (should, but won't) becomes the closer, and Pena gets to stop pitching the garbage innings.

[SoxAce]

and Pena gets to stop pitching the garbage innings.

 

That Torres guy (or Hudson) would have looked good for us early on.. but I don't blame sox management at all for knowing Pena would have to be pitching that many mop-up innings, cause of how brutal our rotation has been.

[fathom]

That Torres guy (or Hudson) would have looked good for us early on.. but I don't blame sox management at all for knowing Pena would have to be pitching that many mop-up innings, cause of how brutal our rotation has been.

 

The frustrating thing is that they're letting it continue. Just DFA Williams, and call up Torres to be the long man.

[SoxAce]

The frustrating thing is that they're letting it continue. Just DFA Williams, and call up Torres to be the long man.

 

Ozzie loves his second lefty relievers though!

 

I think I sound like a broken record by saying this many times... My biggest beef with KW since the off-season was not finding that other good LHP (no not LOOGY... LHP) to pair with Thornton in the pen. I KNEW for a fact going with freaking Randy Williams was not gonna be good at all.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I disagree soo much.

 

Look how long it took us to finally get a competent CF out there. Not only does he have power, but he has the speed and defense for CF. I would file Rios under UNTOUCHABLE, along with Beckham. Everyone else is expendable, really.

 

f***ing tell me about it. Think about all the "Ozzie should be fired" rants simply from starting Wise in CF. Now we've got one of the best all-around CFs in the game and it's time to trade him? Makes awesome sense.

[MiddleCoastBias]

f***ing tell me about it. Think about all the "Ozzie should be fired" rants simply from starting Wise in CF. Now we've got one of the best all-around CFs in the game and it's time to trade him? Makes awesome sense.

I totally agree. We've seen a number of posters saying we should flip the talent we have for youth lately. I thought that was the point of acquiring this proven talent- so that we can field a competitive team? And yes I know the team we field now is not competitive but why blow up the few good pieces we have? I don't agree with the mentality of "we suck now, trade the 3 good players now so we can maybe build for 4 years from now, depending on how these prospects play out". I agree we need to retool and/or rebuild but come on... we haven't had a REAL CF in years and now that we have one of the better players we need to flip him for prospects? I'm sure we can find other avenues to cut payroll and add future depth. Rios is not that option.

[fathom]

f***ing tell me about it. Think about all the "Ozzie should be fired" rants simply from starting Wise in CF. Now we've got one of the best all-around CFs in the game and it's time to trade him? Makes awesome sense.

 

The thing is, KW hasn't exactly proven that he can trade veterans for a good package of prospects. If anything, that's been one of his major weaknesses as a GM.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The thing is, KW hasn't exactly proven that he can trade veterans for a good package of prospects. If anything, that's been one of his major weaknesses as a GM.

 

To be fair, how often has KW had a player of Rios' caliber to dangle?

[Chicago White Sox]

If we want any chance of competing in 2011, I'd keep the following players, baring any crazy offers:

 

Peavy

Buerhle

Danks

Floyd

Santos

Pena

Rios

Beckham

Quentin

Ramirez

 

Regardless of the results this season, I still think our rotation (with the addition of Hudson) can be a serious asset for 2011. Plus I don't think we'll get much at all for any of these guys (except Danks who's an automatic keeper) and I don't think that freed salary space will be of much value for us after this diaster of a season. The bullpen is going to need to be addressed, but I'd like to keep Santos and Pena as the starting point. I'd also make my best effort to get a ransom for Thornton, but if that offer isn't out there, I make him my closer for the rest of the season.

 

As for the offense, there is no way in hell you trade Rios. The guy is locked up long-term to a reasonable contract and is the only guy you can really count on to be a productive middle of the lineup hitter. Beckham is also an untouchable. I'd also give Quentin and Ramirez another season before deciding what to do with them. I don't see us losing much value by waiting.

 

Therefore, the guys I would focus on trading would be Putz, Jenks, Garcia, Konerko, A.J. and Jones (and Thornton depending on the return). I don't think anyone else would get us much of anything in return, but obviously I'd be willing to part with some of the other guys if someone wanted them.

 

[T R U]

No way KW would actually go forward with a complete rebuilding though. I can't FATHOM that happening.

 

Then what are we gonna do? Try and trade Konerko? That's about the only thing big chip we have to move, and even so I wouldn't expect anything great from him..

 

Then what? They certainly aren't going to spend the money it will take to add the pieces its going to take to be a playoff team.. by my count (with Konerko being moved) there will be holes at 3B, LF, C, 1B, DH

 

That on top of Beckham and Quentin sucking, you MIGHT be talking about two more holes..

 

Right now is prolly the best time to hope that Putz keeps it up, Jenks shows improvement, and Thornton is Thornton.. I think there could be some decent overall return with dealing those three near the deadline..

 

If not, were going to be fielding more than likely a team close to the one we have now, if not worse, next season..

Edited June 6, 2010 by T R U

[Wanne]

Quentin

Ramirez

 

Depending on the return...why on earth would these guys be on your untouchable list?!?!?

[jenksycat]

I love that we're trading away any value we have for apparently A to AA players which everyone seems to think is the best route. I'd really look forward to having a WORSE team than this for the next 3-5 years while we sit on our hands and pray that all this "young talent" we get actually amounts to anything.

[T R U]

I love that we're trading away any value we have for apparently A to AA players which everyone seems to think is the best route. I'd really look forward to having a WORSE team than this for the next 3-5 years while we sit on our hands and pray that all this "young talent" we get actually amounts to anything.

 

Yeah, why not just be bad for the next 3-5 years anyways with the current roster we have..

 

What the hell do you think were gonna do? If the team sucks, the attendance will suck, and they will NOT spend the money it will take to put the team over.. its just not going to happen..

[jenksycat]

Yeah, why not just be bad for the next 3-5 years anyways with the current roster we have..

 

What the hell do you think were gonna do? If the team sucks, the attendance will suck, and they will NOT spend the money it will take to put the team over.. its just not going to happen..

 

Did I say keep the current roster? I don't want to trade the couple of guys that are actually any f***ing good so we can get a bunch of A ballers who probably won't even make it.

[bighurt4life]

So there's been a lot of speculation here on what should or should not be done with the roster. How about what is likely to happen.

 

IMO it's probably only a 50/50 chance that Konerko gets dealt. First off, he's one of the two consistent hitters this team has and has been the one bedrock position player on the Sox for the last decade. Second, he may not bring back much in a package of prospects, perhaps a couple of B level players or some risk/reward guys from lower levels.

On the flip side of the coin, he's aging, is having a great year so his value is as high as it will get, and is only signed through the end of the year so we're not giving up that much. In addition, we need to make room for Viciedo to man first next year.

 

The pieces who will be moved are not big name guys, we will be looking at moving replaceable role players with one big name a possibility. We have depth in the bullpen and can afford to trade Putz, we'll just end up having to lose him or pay him big bucks next year to keep him, neither of those are appealing options so we'll move him to a contender with a weak pen. Andrew Jones has value to a team looking for a power bat although I wouldn't be against keeping him and offering arbitration,(he could end up a type-B free agent if he finishes the year strong) The big name to me is Jenks, it's quite obvious that with all the offseason talk about him from the front office/coaching staff the past couple of years they're tired of his act and more specifically his big fat body although it's doubtful that we'll find a taker for his salary with the way he's performing this season.

 

I don't think we move AJ, he's too valuable to us, Flowers isn't ready to take over for him, there's no other acceptable stopgap in the system to finish out the season, and finally he'll end the year a type A free agent so we can offer arb. and hopefully land some draft picks for him.

 

Other than that, KW isn't the type to strip the team to bare bones, he wants to compete every season and if we start shipping off all our parts, we'll be many years away from that with the dearth of talent in our minors.

[Harry Chappas]

The middle of the order next year will be Quentin, Beckham Rios. It is a scary thought but it is what it is.

 

Sadly if Flowers can not hit in the minors they are going to have to try and extend AJ.

 

This team is f***ed if Floyd, Buerhle and Peavy do not get better next year and Danks doesn't figure out how to get through six innings a game.

 

They need to find a 1B, DH and 3B for next year with Teahen moving to the platoon role that Kotsay fills.

 

Whoever thought that Kotsay and Jones could play everyday should be fired.......I think that is Ozzie not KW.

[kitekrazy]

If we want any chance of competing in 2011.........

 

We need to stop right there, enough said.

 

So far I've read people wanting to trade for "trades sake" because the team sucks.

It's easy to replace bad players with more bad players.

But good ones..........

 

Look how long it took to fill the hole after trading Rowand.

 

Lights out set up guy? We got one, keep him.

 

Losing teams never get the better side of trades this late.

 

Right now I don't trust the current GM to make any deals. I don't trust the farm system handling prospects.

 

Trade the bad ones. not the good ones.

 

[kitekrazy]

This team is f***ed if Floyd, Buerhle and Peavy do not get better next year and Danks doesn't figure out how to get through six innings a game.

 

Peavy is new to the league, so I'll give him a pass.

 

Floyd-possible it could be an off year. It happens.

 

Mark B. - might be the guy to trade before his value gets really low.

 

[iamshack]

Unfortunately, if you're looking to reshuffle the deck here, I think Thornton has to go. I agree that he has a ton of value to the White Sox, but if you assume you're going to keep a core of Gordon, Rios, Jake, Danksy, Floyd, Quentin and Alexei, I think Thornton is one of the guys that has to go.

 

I'd look at moving Konerko, AJ, Andruw Jones, Thornton, Jenks, Buehrle, and Juan Pierre if at all possible.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know why you would trade Thornton. The White Sox are not going into a total rebuilding mode. They have Peavy and Buehrle for better or worse. They aren't going to get rid of Danks. They most likely won't trade Floyd. Garcia can be replaced by Hudson, so they are going to pretty much have the same rotation for the near future. With the condition of the AL Central, it doesn't take too much to think you have a chance. Beckham will snap out if it sometime. Quentin still has ability. Rios has ability. Maybe if the guys in AAA actually showed they may be ready for MLB it would be one thing, but remember last year when everyone wanted Beckham shipped back about a week after he was called up? He was light years more advanced than the current crop. I don't see what fun it would be to watch Flowers and Jordan Danks walk back to the dugout after collecting another golden sombrero. Keep Thornton. The bullpen needs him. This year is probably gone, but improve your roster, not with has beens like Vizquel and Kotsay and Jones and never beens like Nix and Teahen. Get some legit players, then you can move other guys like Ramirez and get someone who actually is smart on the baseball field and it really won't hurt you.

 

I don't understand the comments that he's worth more to the White Sox than other teams as a reason to get rid of him. Its a reason to keep him. You won't get back what he's worth. If some team wants to give you a top 10 in baseball prospect who really can't miss, then bye Matt, but its not going to happen.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

I don't know why you would trade Thornton. The White Sox are not going into a total rebuilding mode. They have Peavy and Buehrle for better or worse. They aren't going to get rid of Danks. They most likely won't trade Floyd. Garcia can be replaced by Hudson, so they are going to pretty much have the same rotation for the near future. With the condition of the AL Central, it doesn't take too much to think you have a chance. Beckham will snap out if it sometime. Quentin still has ability. Rios has ability. Maybe if the guys in AAA actually showed they may be ready for MLB it would be one thing, but remember last year when everyone wanted Beckham shipped back about a week after he was called up? He was light years more advanced than the current crop. I don't see what fun it would be to watch Flowers and Jordan Danks walk back to the dugout after collecting another golden sombrero. Keep Thornton. The bullpen needs him. This year is probably gone, but improve your roster, not with has beens like Vizquel and Kotsay and Jones and never beens like Nix and Teahen. Get some legit players, then you can move other guys like Ramirez and get someone who actually is smart on the baseball field and it really won't hurt you.

I tend to agree with you except for the fact that we've got to give up something of value in order to "get some legit players," as you say. We aren't going to be able to go out and sign many premier free agents, and so you're going to have to acquire some solid young talent somehow. The only way you can do that is by maximizing the value of some of your better-performing veterans by trading them this July.

 

If I were Kenny I would try and find a match with a team that needs Thornton and also has a bit of a logjam at a position of need for us.

 

The Rays, Reds, Jays, Phillies, Dodgers come to mind as possible matches...

 

 

[fathom]

I tend to agree with you except for the fact that we've got to give up something of value in order to "get some legit players," as you say. We aren't going to be able to go out and sign many premier free agents, and so you're going to have to acquire some solid young talent somehow. The only way you can do that is by maximizing the value of some of your better-performing veterans by trading them this July.

 

If I were Kenny I would try and find a match with a team that needs Thornton and also has a bit of a logjam at a position of need for us.

 

The Rays, Reds, Jays, Phillies, Dodgers come to mind as possible matches...

 

The Reds have the best reliever in baseball so far this season in Arthur Rhodes, who is also a lefty. If anything, Jenks or Putz is a better fit for them.

[iamshack]

The Reds have the best reliever in baseball so far this season in Arthur Rhodes, who is also a lefty. If anything, Jenks or Putz is a better fit for them.

Fair enough, although Rhodes is 41 and Herrera is 5'6. They are the only two southpaws on their staff. I suppose things could change. Or stay the same.

[flavum]

I would have to be overwhelmed to trade Matt Thornton, but every team would love to have him in their pen in October. It would be very tempting to take on a good prospect.

 

On Buehrle...I don't see any team wanting him this year. He's not doing great, and he would get another year and another million per year if he gets traded. So basically he would have 2.5 years at 38 million if he got traded before his 10/5 kicks in...or even after and he approved a trade. It just doesn't seem likely.

 

On AJ...as long as he starts hitting, I think he'll approve a trade to a contender even after his 10/5 kicks in next week. No rush to move him.

 

On Konerko...I don't think he's going to turn down a 4-month trip to any destination. He's a free agent after this year, and he'll find a team that trains in Arizona then. If the Yankees want to add a bat, I could see him as their DH down the stretch. And the Angels are always a possibility.

 

On Jenks...from what I've read, scouts aren't that down on him. Maybe an NL team like the Phillies or Braves will want to take a chance.

[Dick Allen]

I tend to agree with you except for the fact that we've got to give up something of value in order to "get some legit players," as you say. We aren't going to be able to go out and sign many premier free agents, and so you're going to have to acquire some solid young talent somehow. The only way you can do that is by maximizing the value of some of your better-performing veterans by trading them this July.

 

If I were Kenny I would try and find a match with a team that needs Thornton and also has a bit of a logjam at a position of need for us.

 

The Rays, Reds, Jays, Phillies, Dodgers come to mind as possible matches...

There have been plenty of bargains available the past 2 offseasons the White Sox have passed on. Jenks will be gone one way or another as will Konerko. I know payroll will be slashed, but they will still have some available. Just those 2 is $20 million off the books.

 

I'm not expecting the White Sox to sign a premier free agent. They aren't going to win a bidding war over a player.

 

Dumping Thornton who is also a financial bargain, also means creating another gaping hole on the White Sox roster. The problem is no team is going to give their top prospect for a set up guy, and if you're going to their 7th or 8th prospect or some obscure A ball player, who cares. Keep the guy. The White Sox are definitely going to try to win in 2011. There isn't going to be some 3 or 4 year rebuilding plan some masochists dream of. I don't see how anyone could even get the impression the White Sox regime could rebuild a contending team by developing players.