Olney: Sox to start trading away vets

[Balta1701]

The White Sox have no choice. How can this team win next year with the players that they have either on the parent club or in the farm system. They can't. Acquire free agents, you may suuggest? Not with the money tied up with Peavy and Rios.

If the pitching staff could pull their heads out of their tails, and Beckham and Quentin could figure out what a baseball bat is used for (other than hitting themselves in the heads with it), then this team could snap out of it real quick. You'd only have a couple holes to fill, and you'd have money to do it.

 

Sadly, beckham and Quentin seem like lost causes right now.

[greg775]

They wouldn't want him, I honestly believe. Scouts aren't dumb.

 

If you really feel Peavy is this bad and has no value, I'm assuming you are in the fire KW camp as well as fire Oz camp.

Because if Peavy is at the point scouts would be dumb to want him, then we can assume that was the worst trade in White Sox history.

 

I still can't imagine one of the wealthy teams not thinking he could help them, just because he's Peavy. Has his value dropped that far because of his horrendous season?

Edited June 9, 2010 by greg775

[hogan873]

If you really feel Peavy is this bad and has no value, I'm assuming you are in the fire KW camp as well as fire Oz camp.

Because if Peavy is at the point scouts would be dumb to want him, then we can assume that was the worst trade in White Sox history.

 

I still can't imagine one of the wealthy teams not thinking he could help them, just because he's Peavy. Has his value dropped that far because of his horrendous season?

To us his value dropped dramatically. But, our team is the one having to deal with what is most likely an off year for an historically good pitcher. I wouldn't be surprised if a rich NL team would want him, but I'm not sure they'd give up enough for KW to consider a trade.

[jamesdiego]

The White Sox have no choice. How can this team win next year with the players that they have either on the parent club or in the farm system. They can't. Acquire free agents, you may suuggest? Not with the money tied up with Peavy and Rios.

 

 

They should have some dough, assuming Jenks and Putz would not be here. And possibly Konerko too, even though we need him next year. Our options would be limited regardless. Adam Dunn would be out of out price range. I guess we could buy low on Derrek Lee & Matsui, but would they even want to play for us?

[ThunderBolt]

Rios doesn't want to be traded. Which is good, becasue i don't want us to trade him.

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_...t_to_be_traded/

[fathom]

Awesome response by Rios...Peavy could learn a lot from him.

[T R U]

?

 

Rios never said he didn't want to be traded.. all I saw was him mention his limited no trade clause, but I never saw him say he didn't wanna be traded..

 

Was there more to that somewhere?

[RockRaines]

They wouldn't want him, I honestly believe. Scouts aren't dumb.

Scouts are smarter than someone wanting to write him off after 2 bad months and some mechanical issues.

[fathom]

Scouts are smarter than someone wanting to write him off after 2 bad months and some mechanical issues.

 

But what if they don't think it's mechanical? Remember the concerns that Ozzie got frustrated about relating to Peavy during ST. I said at the time, and then a few weeks ago, but scouts are extremely concerned about Peavy's health. Not that there's something necessarily wrong, but more that he's just thrown so many sliders and pitched a lot of innings during his Major League career that he's more like a 34-35 year old in pitching years.

[SoxAce]

Scouts are smarter than someone wanting to write him off after 2 bad months and some mechanical issues.

 

Thank you. Put him back in the NL and he will probably the same guy. Especially if he was in a pitcher's park.

[spiderman]

How much would the Braves/Mets/Phillies pay for Peavy?

 

Why would they take on $16 million (not to mention, about the same for a few more years) for a pitcher who has pitched poorly this season?

[spiderman]

The White Sox have no choice. How can this team win next year with the players that they have either on the parent club or in the farm system. They can't. Acquire free agents, you may suuggest? Not with the money tied up with Peavy and Rios.

 

They aren't going to totally rebuild the team, but they will have to cut payroll, and probably depend on some of their younger offensive prospects like Viceido and Flowers. The offense does need to be rebuilt, but I do agree they are limited by what they can do financially. They are going to have a mostly veteran starting rotation next season, and will still have some stability in their bullpen (although Jenks and Putz will probably be gone).

[scenario]

Why would they take on $16 million (not to mention, about the same for a few more years) for a pitcher who has pitched poorly this season?

 

Because smart baseball people don't write a 28 year old former Cy Young winner off because he's had a handful of bad starts.

[spiderman]

If the pitching staff could pull their heads out of their tails, and Beckham and Quentin could figure out what a baseball bat is used for (other than hitting themselves in the heads with it), then this team could snap out of it real quick. You'd only have a couple holes to fill, and you'd have money to do it.

 

Sadly, beckham and Quentin seem like lost causes right now.

 

Quentin may have been a 1 year wonder. You can't have a guy you're depending on to hit 4th in your lineup bat .200....I don't see how they can, if this continues, that he's part of the future. He may have to be for next season because this team will probably be reducing payroll even more. As for Beckham, it's been a horrible season, but you're right - he could turn it around, and then we'd have at least one building block amongst the younger players on the team.

 

I think they have off-season holes at C, 3B, 1B, DH and RF. As I said though, Quentin could come back by default and Teahan will be in the mix as well because of his contract. Viceido is likely to fill in the 1B role assuming Konerko is traded, and hopefully they can add a MLB ready prospect than can help at 3B (really, anywhere on offense because I haven't even mentioned mediocre players like Pierre or Ramirez).

[spiderman]

If you really feel Peavy is this bad and has no value, I'm assuming you are in the fire KW camp as well as fire Oz camp.

Because if Peavy is at the point scouts would be dumb to want him, then we can assume that was the worst trade in White Sox history.

 

I still can't imagine one of the wealthy teams not thinking he could help them, just because he's Peavy. Has his value dropped that far because of his horrendous season?

 

 

Peavy has been bad, but I'm not calling for anyone to be fired. It's still a trade I'd make all over again.

 

I agree that just because wealthy teams have money to burn doesn't mean they will take on players not performing.

 

[spiderman]

Scouts are smarter than someone wanting to write him off after 2 bad months and some mechanical issues.

 

That may be true, I don't disagree, but teams aren't going to risk trading for players making that kind of money unless they believe the results will come with it.

[SoxAce]

That may be true, I don't disagree, but teams aren't going to risk trading for players making that kind of money unless they believe the results will come with it.

 

And why wouldn't they? Read from the last page on. I just posted a couple of post up that a team can easily get a great pitcher again. Put him back in the NL (especially at a pitchers park) and you will get the same guy.

 

Remember, sox screwed around with him with tweaking his mechanics early on, and its not like he is clearly injured (or severe lack of velocity). No doubt in my mind he would be dominate going back to the NL where he knows the hitters.

Edited June 9, 2010 by SoxAce

[Balta1701]

They should have some dough, assuming Jenks and Putz would not be here. And possibly Konerko too, even though we need him next year. Our options would be limited regardless. Adam Dunn would be out of out price range. I guess we could buy low on Derrek Lee & Matsui, but would they even want to play for us?

If you do the math and assume the Sox will spend about $95 million next year on salary (that could be an overestimate), then the Sox have somewhere in the range of $10-$12 million to spend. They'll have holes at DH, 1b, C, all 4 bench slots, and at least 2 bullpen slots including closer (or chief LH setup man if they move Thornton to closer). Viciedo and Flowers probably will fill 2 of those spots, but that means $10-$12 million to divide amongst 6-7 players.

 

Unless they can move some salary this year to put savings towards next year, they'll be trying to find bargains again.

[dyuen]

Because smart baseball people don't write a 28 year old former Cy Young winner off because he's had a handful of bad starts.

True but smart baseball people also have to have the foresight to recognize whether it really is a few bad starts or a bad pitcher. That's the tough part and something we won't really know for a while still.

[Balta1701]

True but smart baseball people also have to have the foresight to recognize whether it really is a few bad starts or a bad pitcher. That's the tough part and something we won't really know for a while still.

After his few starts last year, I can't believe this is anything but a few bad starts unless there's a serious injury he's hiding.

[RockRaines]

But what if they don't think it's mechanical? Remember the concerns that Ozzie got frustrated about relating to Peavy during ST. I said at the time, and then a few weeks ago, but scouts are extremely concerned about Peavy's health. Not that there's something necessarily wrong, but more that he's just thrown so many sliders and pitched a lot of innings during his Major League career that he's more like a 34-35 year old in pitching years.

Because of how many sliders he has thrown? Give me a break. The guy will be back to what he was in no time. He proved in a few starts last season that he can pitch in the AL and has run into mechanical issues after recovering fully from an injury and time off. Trading him would be stupid on our part, and writing him off would be stupid on everyone else's part.

[scenario]

True but smart baseball people also have to have the foresight to recognize whether it really is a few bad starts or a bad pitcher. That's the tough part and something we won't really know for a while still.

 

Might be true if he didn't have a body of work that suggests he'll snap back.

 

Plus, when you look at his stuff... pitches, speed, movement... There aren't any screaming red flags.

 

I think the injury last year has thrown his mechanics enough that it's affected his command. And eventually he'll get back on track.

[fathom]

Might be true if he didn't have a body of work that suggests he'll snap back.

 

Plus, when you look at his stuff... pitches, speed, movement... There aren't any screaming red flags.

 

I think the injury last year has thrown his mechanics enough that it's affected his command. And eventually he'll get back on track.

 

His slider is nowhere near the pitch it was in the past. That's the biggest difference. He used to get a ton of swings and misses on that pitch. His fastball is about what it used to be.

[fathom]

Because of how many sliders he has thrown? Give me a break. The guy will be back to what he was in no time. He proved in a few starts last season that he can pitch in the AL and has run into mechanical issues after recovering fully from an injury and time off. Trading him would be stupid on our part, and writing him off would be stupid on everyone else's part.

 

I hope you're right, and I'm wrong...we're screwed if he doesn't improve. With that said, the time for excuses with him has to be over.

[Balta1701]

His slider is nowhere near the pitch it was in the past. That's the biggest difference. He used to get a ton of swings and misses on that pitch. His fastball is about what it used to be.

Usually when a pitcher loses something because of age though, it's his fastball. If he's lost his slider, that sounds like one of 2 things to me; either it's a change in his mechanics (which we know has happened) or it's a nagging injury (which may have happened). One of those, he's likely to correct. The other, he's likely to Liriano.