fathom Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 04:11 AM) The Cardinals seem to be one of those teams that always has a solid bullpen, no matter who they throw out there. Either La Russa knows when/where to place them or they just have the best pitching coach in baseball. Very much like the Twins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I hesitate to endorse any idea of dismantiling our starting pitching. Pitcing is what wins and followed by good defense and offense. But, if you do trade one I guess you go with the one with the most value. Is that Mark Buerhle? Maybe. I think it's between him and Floyd. Floyd's contract makes him more palatable to a team with limited finances, but MB has the history of two no-hitters, etc, etc. I am thinking the staff will get it turned around though. Question remains if it's to late for this year though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 11:07 AM) Question remains if it's to late for this year though Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 10:07 AM) I hesitate to endorse any idea of dismantiling our starting pitching. Pitcing is what wins and followed by good defense and offense. But, if you do trade one I guess you go with the one with the most value. Is that Mark Buerhle? Maybe. I think it's between him and Floyd. Floyd's contract makes him more palatable to a team with limited finances, but MB has the history of two no-hitters, etc, etc. I am thinking the staff will get it turned around though. Question remains if it's to late for this year though The SP with the most value is Danks. One of the top LHP in the AL, young and under team control, and inexpensive. I think he would be a good match with a team like the Reds maybe in a package with Jenks or Putz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 11:16 AM) The SP with the most value is Danks. One of the top LHP in the AL, young and under team control, and inexpensive. I think he would be a good match with a team like the Reds maybe in a package with Jenks or Putz. I dunno if the Reds are going to be looking to spend on that kind of starting pitcher this year. Worth noting is that the Reds have reinforcements for their rotation already available in Aroldis Chapman, and possibly Edison Volquez late in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 10:18 AM) I dunno if the Reds are going to be looking to spend on that kind of starting pitcher this year. Worth noting is that the Reds have reinforcements for their rotation already available in Aroldis Chapman, and possibly Edison Volquez late in the year. You could be right, but Chapman is struggling to get through 5 innings on a consistent basis in AAA because of high pitch counts, so his control is in question especially when he will be facing more patient ML hitters. Volquez is the wildcard if he will be able to get back into form and if the Reds will still be in contention if they need to wait for him. Harang will likely be a FA at the end of the year as will Arroyo. B There are other teams that would love to have Danks, I just mentioned the Reds because they have the talent in the minors that best matches our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 11:52 AM) You could be right, but Chapman is struggling to get through 5 innings on a consistent basis in AAA because of high pitch counts, so his control is in question especially when he will be facing more patient ML hitters. Volquez is the wildcard if he will be able to get back into form and if the Reds will still be in contention if they need to wait for him. Harang will likely be a FA at the end of the year as will Arroyo. B There are other teams that would love to have Danks, I just mentioned the Reds because they have the talent in the minors that best matches our needs. Yeah, Harang and Arroyo will be gone next year, but that would still leave the Reds with Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Volquez, and Chapman as their top 5 starters next year. Always possible injuries will take their toll or Volquez won't come back to form next year, but either way, I don't see them adding a top of the rotation starter in the near future. The best places the Reds and Sox match up are the bullpen and maybe some backup spots like possibly C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 10:16 AM) The SP with the most value is Danks. One of the top LHP in the AL, young and under team control, and inexpensive. I think he would be a good match with a team like the Reds maybe in a package with Jenks or Putz. only way you trade Danks at this point is if extension talks completely fall through... why would you trade a young pitcher you have under some control for another year or two to get prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 06:14 PM) only way you trade Danks at this point is if extension talks completely fall through... why would you trade a young pitcher you have under some control for another year or two to get prospects? Because his value/the number of teams that you can effectively trade him to drops as he goes through the arbitration process and gets more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) If the Sox trade John Danks for prospects because they worry about whether or not they can sign him in a couple of years, this team will never win again. I'm amazed at all the people that want to the White Sox to trade every decent player they have for prospects. Edited June 12, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:35 PM) If the Sox trade John Danks for prospects because they worry about whether or not they can sign him in a couple of years, this team will never win again. Like the Twins when they dumped Santana for prospects. Haven't won since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:38 PM) Like the Twins when they dumped Santana for prospects. Haven't won since. How are the guys they got for Santana doing? Keep in mind Santana commands a lot better collection of prospects than John Danks. Edited June 12, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:40 PM) How are the guys they got for Santana doing? Not well. But I think you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:41 PM) Not well. But I think you get the point. No I don't get the point. The Twins also extended Mauer and Morneau, a couple guys if they were White Sox you probably would have liked traded for prospects if the team wasn't winning before they were locked up . Edited June 12, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:45 PM) No I don't get the point. The Twins also extended Mauer and Morneau, a couple guys if they were White Sox you probably would have liked traded for prospects if the team wasn't winning before they were locked up . Haven't the Twins been winning? Point is pretty simple. Even if you screw up the trade, there is no single pitcher in MLB who is so good that your team will never recover from trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:48 PM) Haven't the Twins been winning? Point is pretty simple. Even if you screw up the trade, there is no single pitcher in MLB who is so good that your team will never recover from trading him. Why trade good pitchers if you could afford them? I'm pretty sure the Twins didn't want to trade Santana. The Sox have plenty of money coming off before Danks has to sign and who knows what the situation will even be 2 years from now. Would anyone in April have guessed Soxtalk 2010 punching bags would include Peavy, Beckham and Quentin? That multiple people actually want the Sox to build around Alex Rios? Things change quickly, but trading good, young pitching usually finds you on the short end of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 06:38 PM) Like the Twins when they dumped Santana for prospects. Haven't won since. To be fair, the Twins were really taking the heat to deal him when most of baseball knew they had to. They should have gotten way more than they did. It was considered a huge steal for the Mets and the only prospect that looked good (besides Guerra) was Gomez (who was really overhyped, most were shocked guys like F. Martinez, Pelfrey/Humber, etc.. etc.. were not in the deal). I don't care about the decent guys you trade for good prospects if need be, but when there is a 25 year old young player who IMO is the future (if not already by some) ace of this team because he hasn't signed an extension, that is where I have a problem with. Edited June 12, 2010 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:52 PM) Things change quickly, but trading good, young pitching usually finds you on the short end of the trade. Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell's contract for Hanley Ramirez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:09 PM) Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell's contract for Hanley Ramirez. So far you mentioned Beckett and Santana. I love John Danks, but he's not it their league at the time they were traded. The biggest reason Florida was able to get Ramirez is because they took Lowell's contract, something no other team would have done at the time. It was considered a huge albatross, although it didn't turn out that way. At the time of the trade, many in baseball, if not most, thought Lowell was done. Edited June 12, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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