Guillen, Williams almost come to blows during shouting match

[justBLAZE]

Cowley adding some more fuel to the fire.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox11.article

 

After the White Sox' 3-0 victory over the Detroit Tigers, the Sun-Times was told by a team source that general manager Ken Williams and manager Ozzie Guillen ''almost came to blows in a heated shouting match'' on Tuesday evening because of the draft fallout of Guillen's youngest son, Ozney.

[Kalapse]

Cowley adding some more fuel to the fire.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox11.article

One source indicated that Williams was instructed by Reinsdorf not to travel on road trips -- which he hasn't -- to avoid any confrontation with Guillen. But a confrontation couldn't be avoided Tuesday. Guillen watched Ozney slip to the 22nd round in the draft before the Sox selected him. Guillen then commented, ''I give my kid 50 grand just to go to school [at the University of South Florida rather than sign with the Sox]. I got 50 grand in my pocket to send my kid to go to Niketown or buy something.''

 

According to the source, that comment led to Williams questioning Guillen to his face, and the situation got heated.

This f***ing thing is coming to a head.

[southsideirish71]

Cowley adding some more fuel to the fire.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox11.article

 

I really am getting sick of the f***ing Guillens and their self entitlement. I would rather have Hahn as the long term GM. But having Guillen with more power than KW is like having a crack addict in charge of the collection plate.

 

 

[Kalapse]

I'm going to split this out, it seems as though this saga may be coming to an end very soon.

[lostfan]

I haven't been following this that closely... who does Ozzie think he is?

[justBLAZE]

I'm surprised Ozzie has such a long leash with Reinsdorf, the whole time I thought Kenny is 'Jerry's Guy'

[iamshack]

JR obviously doesn't want to fire either of them.

 

I'm sure he'll tell them both to learn to get along or they'll both be out of jobs.

 

My rosy prediction is we get on a roll here and everyone finds a way to get along.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

They were probably fighting over who cares less.

[bighurt4life]

I don't get it, is Oz pissed because we didn't draft his kid sooner??? If so, he needs to get his head out of his ass, If his kid was any better then one of the other 31 teams would have swooped him up before the 22nd round. Sounds like we did him a favor.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

^Sounds like Kenny is pissed Ozzie made public comments about the situation and then went on another pointless table-flipping rampage. Rather than say anything to Ozzie he should go take this up with Cowley because Cowley is the one winning in all of this. Cowley's the one putting all this Guillen family s*** out there, stirring the pot, and all he's getting for it is readership.

 

It's a damn shame it's come to this too. Kenny can be a great GM when he's concentrating on his job and trying to win. This year is all on Kenny, no matter what, because no matter what Ozzie ever said he wanted, Kenny is the GM and Kenny gets to call the shots. Please STFU and get this team some help.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[iamshack]

^Sounds like Kenny is pissed Ozzie made public comments about the situation and then went on another pointless table-flipping rampage. Rather than say anything to Ozzie he should go take this up with Cowley because Cowley is the one winning in all of this. Cowley's the one putting all this Guillen family s*** out there, stirring the pot, and all he's getting for it is readership.

 

It's a damn shame it's come to this too. Kenny can be a great GM when he's concentrating on his job and trying to win. This year is all on Kenny, no matter what, because no matter what Ozzie ever said he wanted, Kenny is the GM and Kenny gets to call the shots. Please STFU and get this team some help.

Yeah yeah, god forbid the blame actually fall on the players who are being paid millions to put up production far worse than replacement player levels.

[greg775]

Notice Jim Leyland's kid got picked in the eighth round like KW's did, also.

Seems like Round Eight is the wink, wink nepotism round.

Ozzie's kid got screwed. Can't blame Oz for being pissed. The rich take care of each other normally.

It's obvious the two hate each other. Two former ballplayers; Oz was much better than KW as a player and I'm sure he lets him know that on a regular basis.

Edited June 11, 2010 by greg775

[hi8is]

July 4th - The Club - MLB Network

 

That show is sure to be interesting =)

[T R U]

Yeah yeah, god forbid the blame actually fall on the players who are being paid millions to put up production far worse than replacement player levels.

 

If that were the case, why would any GM ever get fired? They could just say hey, don't blame me blame the players they are the ones not performing..

 

The problem is, the GM is the one who brought all these players here that aren't performing..

[iamshack]

If that were the case, why would any GM ever get fired? They could just say hey, don't blame me blame the players they are the ones not performing..

 

The problem is, the GM is the one who brought all these players here that aren't performing..

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying.

 

Sometimes it is clear that a GM is not putting together a roster capable of winning anything. Sometimes he hamstrings his organization with ill-fated contracts and set it back for years. Sometimes he makes ridiculously poor trades which continuously work out in favor of the opposition.

 

I think it's hard to say those things about Kenny.

 

One can certainly argue the roster we went into this year with was quite imperfect - and I don't have an issue with that argument. But we must remember that rosters are often a work in progress at the beginning of a season, and appropriate tweaks or more significant changes may be made in order to strengthen an area or areas that need be. I think it's apparent that Kenny is a fan of such an approach.

 

So what you have to look at then is whether their were indications that this core would perform this poorly, or even anywhere near as poor as it has performed. If you can honestly tell me you suspected Mark, Jake, and Gavin would pitch this terribly, well, you are a smart man. If you believed that Carlos, Gordon and AJ would perform this terribly, than you are a smart man.

 

In my opinion, to expect those 6 players to perform this terribly for this long was completely unfathomable. I also don't believe there were ANY steps that could have been taken to produce a winning club with those 6 players performing this terribly.

 

I think this is a case where the blame falls on the players. I don't believe firing this GM and replacing him would yield any different results, other than a full-scale rebuild, which may or may not prove to be any more successful than what we currently have.

 

 

[T R U]

I don't necessarily think that KW should be fired either.. but jesus christ how could he go into this season with Kotsay and an unknown in Jones as the DH?

 

I don't care what Ozzie wants, KW should have known better..

 

 

[iamshack]

I don't necessarily think that KW should be fired either.. but jesus christ how could he go into this season with Kotsay and an unknown in Jones as the DH?

 

I don't care what Ozzie wants, KW should have known better..

But the fallacy in your premise is that Kotsay and Andruw Jones are the cause of our losing record.

 

They simply are not.

 

And unless they were to be replaced by Justin Morneau and Ryan Braun, I'm not sure that it would have made a difference.

[T R U]

But the fallacy in your premise is that Kotsay and Andruw Jones are the cause of our losing record.

 

They simply are not.

 

And unless they were to be replaced by Justin Morneau and Ryan Braun, I'm not sure that it would have made a difference.

 

That was just an example of a move gone wrong..

 

 

[chisoxt]

^Sounds like Kenny is pissed Ozzie made public comments about the situation and then went on another pointless table-flipping rampage. Rather than say anything to Ozzie he should go take this up with Cowley because Cowley is the one winning in all of this. Cowley's the one putting all this Guillen family s*** out there, stirring the pot, and all he's getting for it is readership.

 

It's a damn shame it's come to this too. Kenny can be a great GM when he's concentrating on his job and trying to win. This year is all on Kenny, no matter what, because no matter what Ozzie ever said he wanted, Kenny is the GM and Kenny gets to call the shots. Please STFU and get this team some help.

If all of this happened, why is it Cowley's fault? As a reporter, what is he supposed to do, look the other way? GMAFB.

 

Were it me, i would launch both of them. The entitlement from 2005 is ovah.

[Kyyle23]

Notice Jim Leyland's kid got picked in the eighth round like KW's did, also.

Seems like Round Eight is the wink, wink nepotism round.

Ozzie's kid got screwed. Can't blame Oz for being pissed. The rich take care of each other normally.

It's obvious the two hate each other. Two former ballplayers; Oz was much better than KW as a player and I'm sure he lets him know that on a regular basis.

 

 

Ozzies kid got screwed? Because the Sox didnt draft him in the wink wink nepotism 8th round? Thats f***ing ridiculous greg, you dont draft players in certain rounds because their parents work for the team. You draft kids in certain rounds because their talents dictate what round they are drafted in, and obviously 22 rounds into the draft the White Sox were not the only team that felt that Ozney didnt have the talent necessary to be drafted earlier.

[chetkincaid]

One source indicated that Williams was instructed by Reinsdorf not to travel on road trips -- which he hasn't -- to avoid any confrontation with Guillen.

 

Good God... Kenny Williams is going to resign if this keeps up. I wasn't believing any of this Kenny Williams v. Ozzie crap in the beginning, but it sure does seem like it's true now. It looks like Reinsdorf is going to have to make a decision.

 

If KW leaves, I'm going to be pissed.

[chisoxt]

Good God... Kenny Williams is going to resign if this keeps up. I wasn't believing any of this Kenny Williams v. Ozzie crap in the beginning, but it sure does seem like it's true now. It looks like Reinsdorf is going to have to make a decision.

 

If KW leaves, I'm going to be pissed.

Like he had nothing to do with this mess. If KW leaves, I am going to be happy!

Edited June 11, 2010 by chisoxt

[chetkincaid]

Williams -- talking on the team's website -- sounded as if he had come to the realization that if there is a power struggle with Guillen, he's coming out on the bottom.

''We are both very competitive men, strong-willed men,'' Williams told the site. ''I believe in self-assessment, and I think you have to assess all parts of our operation from top to bottom to determine if it's, in fact, still a productive working relationship.

 

''Whether or not the maintenance of that relationship is such that we still have the drive to get through some things and still have the drive to get through some differences ... I'm still in that assessment mode for myself, in particular.

 

''That should not lead to the assumption that I mean that [Guillen] is the one [who may benefit from a change of scenery]. If I determine that I am the one that is the cog in the machine, then I am the one who will stand in front of Jerry Reinsdorf and tell him so and step aside. ... I will not deny that I am growing weary of the soap opera.''

 

Wow... He's actually admitting it.

 

Man he's gone.

 

I hope the language filter is working the day he resigns.

[lostfan]

I don't necessarily think that KW should be fired either.. but jesus christ how could he go into this season with Kotsay and an unknown in Jones as the DH?

 

I don't care what Ozzie wants, KW should have known better..

There's nothing wrong with Kotsay being on this team, in and of itself, he's proven that he's a good pinch hitter/bench player. The problem is that he's much more than that on this team and obviously not very good at what he is here.

[Dick Allen]

Notice Jim Leyland's kid got picked in the eighth round like KW's did, also.

Seems like Round Eight is the wink, wink nepotism round.

Ozzie's kid got screwed. Can't blame Oz for being pissed. The rich take care of each other normally.

It's obvious the two hate each other. Two former ballplayers; Oz was much better than KW as a player and I'm sure he lets him know that on a regular basis.

KW Jr. was picked in the 6th round, but when he was coming out of high school like Ozney, the Sox picked him in round 34. I'm not a KW fan, but I never heard one peep out of the Williams camp about that "slap in the face." I wouldn't be surprised if KW was telling Ozzie to tell the idiot Oney to shut his pie hole. While what he was tweeting was hysterical to most including me, it shows just how much away from reality he lives his life and what a spoiled little brat he his. He's just a guy who lives with and off his parents. What he tweeted was classless.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Dick Allen