Guillen, Williams almost come to blows during shouting match

[bschmaranz]

I would have a tough time dealing with that decision as a fan.

 

Agreed. The end result would be me (and probably many others) going back to not trusting the organization at all anymore.

[Balta1701]

Agreed. The end result would be me (and probably many others) going back to not trusting the organization at all anymore.

Explain please?

[whitesoxfan101]

You have to make Hahn GM if you're going to keep Ozzie, it's the only choice. Nobody else would deal with taking the job if they had to inherit a hot tempered, iffy (at best) strategical manager like him.

[Balta1701]

You have to make Hahn GM if you're going to keep Ozzie, it's the only choice. Nobody else would deal with taking the job if they had to inherit a hot tempered, iffy (at best) strategical manager like him.

Nobody else would take the job while having to deal with someone else's manager, unless the guy's an MLB legend (you'd do it if your manager was Torre or Cox)

[whitesoxfan101]

Nobody else would take the job while having to deal with someone else's manager, unless the guy's an MLB legend (you'd do it if your manager was Torre or Cox)

 

Exactly, but it's even moreso true with an unstable personality like Ozzie.

[Balta1701]

Exactly, but it's even moreso true with an unstable personality like Ozzie.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think Ozzie's personality is the important thing here. I think it's just someone else's manager.

[ThunderBolt]

Cowley said Garcia and Konerko confirmed the blow-up. Also, both Stone and Cowley suggested Hahn will be replacing KW sooner rather than later, and Ozzie's going nowhere.

So, KW falls on his sword and Ozzie takes no accountability for he and his family’s actions this year. Awesome.

[knightni]

JR would be foolish to allow KW to quit over Ozzie and his family.

 

 

[Whitewashed in '05]

Ozzie needs to go. He's done a lot for this organization, but his antics have just gone way too far now. If KW leaves because Reinsdorf won't let him fire Ozzie, there's a f***ing problem. Reinsdorf needs to realize if KW goes because of this then Ozzie is not going to get any better no matter who the GM is. This whole soap opera is f***ing ridiculous.

[bschmaranz]

Explain please?

 

For me personally, firing KW instead of Ozzie is a HORRIBLE decision. I would seriously question this team and my loyalty to it if Reinsdorf would rather keep Ozzie "head up his ass" Guillen and get rid of the guy that's made countless great decisions (in my opinion) over the years.

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie needs to go. He's done a lot for this organization, but his antics have just gone way too far now. If KW leaves because Reinsdorf won't let him fire Ozzie, there's a f***ing problem. Reinsdorf needs to realize if KW goes because of this then Ozzie is not going to get any better no matter who the GM is. This whole soap opera is f***ing ridiculous.

JR wants both of them to stay. I really think its a longshot he ever would fire either, but he realizes they have to get along somewhat in order to both be effective. They don't have to be close, but they have to able to work together. If KW decided to walk away, IMO that's the lesser of two evils for JR. He'd try to talk him out of it, but if he couldn't, there would be a new GM and Ozzie would be making out the line up card. I think if it happened that way, Ozzie's ego would get even bigger, and he would probably become even more difficult if he didn't get his way with whoever they chose to succeed KW, although you'd have to think Hahn would be a lock.

 

If they both stay, one thing anyone could do if they want to have some fun with them is to go to a soxfest seminar where they both are appearing. When the Q and A starts go up to the microphone and just profusely thank one of them for the WS title. Watch the other one skwirm.

[WCSox]

Cowley said Garcia and Konerko confirmed the blow-up. Also, both Stone and Cowley suggested Hahn will be replacing KW sooner rather than later, and Ozzie's going nowhere.

 

If that's actually true, JR is making a huge f'n mistake.

 

[Whitewashed in '05]

JR wants both of them to stay. I really think its a longshot he ever would fire either, but he realizes they have to get along somewhat in order to both be effective. They don't have to be close, but they have to able to work together. If KW decided to walk away, IMO that's the lesser of two evils for JR. He'd try to talk him out of it, but if he couldn't, there would be a new GM and Ozzie would be making out the line up card. I think if it happened that way, Ozzie's ego would get even bigger, and he would probably become even more difficult if he didn't get his way with whoever they chose to succeed KW, although you'd have to think Hahn would be a lock.

 

If they both stay, one thing anyone could do if they want to have some fun with them is to go to a soxfest seminar where they both are appearing. When the Q and A starts go up to the microphone and just profusely thank one of them for the WS title. Watch the other one skwirm.

That's the thing though. He shouldn't let KW walk away. KW isn't going to get talked out of walking away. I know Reinsdorf doesn't want to fire Ozzie and have someone who means so much to this organization leave on those terms, but he can't let the manager be the reason the GM walks away. Like you said, Ozzie's ego would get much bigger than it is already and he'd be uncontrollable if he isn't that already.

[WCSox]

That's the thing though. He shouldn't let KW walk away. KW isn't going to get talked out of walking away. I know Reinsdorf doesn't want to fire Ozzie and have someone who means so much to this organization leave on those terms, but he can't let the manager be the reason the GM walks away. Like you said, Ozzie's ego would get much bigger than it is already and he'd be uncontrollable if he isn't that already.

 

Not to mention that an above-average GM is a lot more difficult to replace than a mediocre manager.

 

[ptatc]

You have to make Hahn GM if you're going to keep Ozzie, it's the only choice. Nobody else would deal with taking the job if they had to inherit a hot tempered, iffy (at best) strategical manager like him.

 

Hahn has turned down some GM interviews recently. Maybe he saw it coming.

[Melissa1334]

(i didnt read the entire thread) but i hate how cowley always loves to write all these negative stories. like hes supposably on the sox's side and all great friends with the guillens too, etc but yet any little thing he finds, he has to write a story about it. like with the whole twitter thing. most of all this crap would all be a non issue if it werent for cowley, he is a tool

 

btw, i dont think ozzie is the only bad/wrong guy in all this, since i noticed most people are saying how theyre sick of him. kw did some things i found to be very messed up. for instance, at soxfest how he literally threw ozzie under the bus with the whole thome situation. a professional thing to do would just be to say that the sox,as a n organization have decided thome isnt the right fit here,etc. not that oh, its ozzies call. i cant imagine, for example, the cardinals saying, well if larussa wants so and so player back, we'll keep him. kw just wanted to save his butt in case the dh thing failed instead of going down together as an organization.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Melissa1334

[South Side Fireworks Man]

For me personally, firing KW instead of Ozzie is a HORRIBLE decision. I would seriously question this team and my loyalty to it if Reinsdorf would rather keep Ozzie "head up his ass" Guillen and get rid of the guy that's made countless great decisions (in my opinion) over the years.

I agree 100%.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Not to mention that an above-average GM is a lot more difficult to replace than a mediocre manager.

I will be irate if they can't get their s*** straight and KW leaves.

[greg775]

They should keep both, but if they have to get rid of one it's KW and promote Hahn (sp?). Seems a lot of people think Hahn is OK.

[G&T]

JR is not going to fire anyone. If anyone leaves it will be their choice. I think KW might be ready to move on and there may be teams ready to make him an offer.

[Chisoxfn]

JR would be foolish to allow KW to quit over Ozzie and his family.

Kenny will be done at the end of the year and be promoted to another role. He can't just keep working as hard as he does with the stress that he goes through. He might go back and become another teams GM down the road again. That is what I believe will happen.

 

Hahn has the job, they won't even need to really interview.

[Balta1701]

JR is not going to fire anyone. If anyone leaves it will be their choice. I think KW might be ready to move on and there may be teams ready to make him an offer.

Well, I'm sure he could take a lower level job, but I'm not sure that teams will want him being the face of their franchise right now after the soap opera in Chicago. Plus, there aren't that many GM jobs open.

[WCSox]

JR is not going to fire anyone. If anyone leaves it will be their choice. I think KW might be ready to move on and there may be teams ready to make him an offer.

 

If this happens, I'm wondering if KW was looking to move on anyway and Ozzie gave him a good excuse to do so.

 

Does KW really not have the power to hire and fire his own manager and coaching staff? Because that would be a *very* good reason to go elsewhere.

 

[southsider2k5]

Kenny will be done at the end of the year and be promoted to another role. He can't just keep working as hard as he does with the stress that he goes through. He might go back and become another teams GM down the road again. That is what I believe will happen.

 

Hahn has the job, they won't even need to really interview.

 

They have everybody in the Sox organization saying this now. They are really setting it up for Kenny to move upstairs.

[maki]

I find it hard to believe J.R. can possibly come to a decision to fire one, likely KW, and not both. Both have demonstrated terrible discretion in allowing this situation to even occur, no less allow it to ever get out. They're both participants in a rather dubious show of nepotism, which while it occurs fairly regularly in baseball, is certainly never discussed. Some people have said the pick of KW Jr in the 6th was probably the single-worst pick of the draft, with the white sox being the losers. And this is what they come to blows about! Yes, it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back, but they've both undermined their commitment or ability to perform their duties.

 

Ozzie has continuously shown his commitment to family is going to prove to be a hindrance to dealing with Kenny and coaching the White Sox in particular. I have no issue with his strong family bond, but coaching the White Sox clearly strains both sides. It probably travels with him if Ozzie gets another job, but certainly not at the level it does with the history here. Kenny had previously not allowed outside issues to affect his ability to perform his job until this year. Even in disagreement with a manager, a GM is asked to maintain composure and a clear head. He can't even travel with the team at this point, which while not completely necessary, is often a tool a GM must use to perform his job.

 

They've both lost it and share significant blame in creating this circus on top of this crap team. What kind of precedence does firing or "promoting" Kenny show. What kind of effect do you think this has on the Guillen family. Perhaps inflating the ever-growing egos of children who have never and will never play for the white sox and cause them to get even more vocal in matters involving this team? What's overlooked is that despite knowing their opinions have no effect on anyone with any authority, an opposition to his family causes Ozzie to react violently. He lets his kids behave this way and defends them to a fault. This will continue to put anyone in the front office or media in harms way with Kenny at the helm or not.

 

I'm rambling, but there's no logical solution to firing one or the other. Keep them both, essentially saying I give up, or fire both, the correct decision.