Who really needs to take control of this team

[Real]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and what's on the mind of most Sox fans is whether Ozzie or Kenny should be fired or given a different role in the organization, allowing someone else like Hahn, Cora, or an outside person to step into the role(s) of GM/Manager.

 

Here's the problem: Kenny obviously can't fire Ozzie, and Kenny isn't going to let Ozzie dictate where he goes from here.

 

Jerry Reinsdorf. Take control of this organization. You need to intervene

 

Me personally, I think Jerry needs to tell Ozzie that 2005 was amazing, but it isn't working anymore and they're going in another direction. Let Kenny finish out the year as GM, and see how the season pans out. But JERRY needs to be the one to cut the head off this filthy animal, and until he does it's going to be a downward depressing spiral from here on

 

I know Reinsdorf has always had a handsoff approach to the Sox, but we're on pace for 73-74 wins for crying out loud. Something has to give and it starts with upper management/ownership. The shareholders can't be sitting idly by while this team continues it's deathspin can they? Meetings have to be going on, words have had to be spoken right? Someone assure me that the fans aren't the only ones who aren't willing to tolerate this for the rest of the season?

 

Thoughts?

[fathom]

Reinsdorf has an amazing bond with Ozzie. If Reinsdorf calls the shots, Ozzie will be here for as long as he wants.

[justBLAZE]

Reinsdorf has an amazing bond with Ozzie. If Reinsdorf calls the shots, Ozzie will be here for as long as he wants.

 

Unfortunately all signs point to what fathom just wrote.

 

 

[joeynach]

Its philosophical from the Top down and everyone in between. I was trying to make this point before. How did the Twins win like 6 division titles in the last 10 seasons, how did the Phillies go to back to back WS (and maybe a 3rd in a row this year). They were both really really bad and pathetic for awhile (late 90s), stocked high draft picks, patiently waited for their picks to develop, and devoted significant resources to scouting and player development. If this is what we want for the sox, then everyone has to commit to process, including us. Screw the get in contention by this date nonsense, lets get dominant for year after year. The earlier you commit to it, the earlier you reap the rewards.

[jamesdiego]

Reinsdorf has an amazing bond with Ozzie. If Reinsdorf calls the shots, Ozzie will be here for as long as he wants.

 

 

He did let his good buddies Doug Collins and Tony La Russa get fired by the GM's.

[harfman77]

Reinsdorf has an amazing bond with Ozzie. If Reinsdorf calls the shots, Ozzie will be here for as long as he wants.

 

Wouldnt that mean that Kenny is on his way out then?

[fathom]

Wouldnt that mean that Kenny is on his way out then?

 

yes

[southsider2k5]

Jerry isn't going to get publicly involved in this. It isn't his style.

[fathom]

Jerry isn't going to get publicly involved in this. It isn't his style.

 

Many think he already has taken over the situation behind the scenes, but like you said, those expecting public decries from him are going to be disappointed.

[justBLAZE]

Kenny Williams would like to fire Ozzie Guillen according to one person close to the team, but owner Jerry Reinsdorf is too loyal to let it happen.

 

A blurb from mlbtraderuors.com

 

On another note, I was watching MLB Network late at night and they had the preview for "The Club" and it wasn't a longer preview than what I've seen before. They focused a lot on Kenny and Ozzie and the unfolding drama it seemed like.

[witesoxfan]

Its philosophical from the Top down and everyone in between. I was trying to make this point before. How did the Twins win like 6 division titles in the last 10 seasons, how did the Phillies go to back to back WS (and maybe a 3rd in a row this year). They were both really really bad and pathetic for awhile (late 90s), stocked high draft picks, patiently waited for their picks to develop, and devoted significant resources to scouting and player development. If this is what we want for the sox, then everyone has to commit to process, including us. Screw the get in contention by this date nonsense, lets get dominant for year after year. The earlier you commit to it, the earlier you reap the rewards.

 

The last first round pick to play for the Phillies in the majors was Greg Golson for 6 plate appearances in 2008. He didn't have a hit and struck out 4 times. He was drafted in 2004. Their last top 10 pick was Gavin Floyd, and he was a colossal failure in Philadelphia. They had obvious hits in Chase Utley and Cole Hamels, and both Pat Burrell and Brett Myers were solid but not spectacular. And the Phillies really haven't had a lot of really high draft picks, and those haven't been particularly kind to Philadelphia. Burrell was 1st overall (a good pick, but he was never a superstar), JD Drew was the 2nd pick overall and didn't sign, Gavin Floyd was 4th overall and busted big time with Philly, Adam Eaton was the 11th overall and he was traded for Andy Ashby (and Eaton has been rather mediocre in his career anyways), and Brett Myers was 12th. Utley was 15th and Hamels was 17th, so as far as mid-1st round picks go, the Phillies have crushed, but they didn't do a lot with their very high picks.

 

The reason the Phillies have succeeded really has little to do with stockpiling high draft picks and, as you mentioned, it has to do with player development. Ryan Howard was a 5th round pick, Jimmy Rollins a 2nd round pick, Victorino was a 6th round pick by the Dodgers, who was then picked in the Rule V by Philly, Jayson Werth was a small free agent signing, Carlos Ruiz was an amateur free agent signing out of Panama, and a lot of the others have been big free agent signings or trades. All the Phillies have done was to collect as much talent as they could wherever they could get it from, and then use excess talent to bring in others that they have needed.

 

The Twins do the same thing, but with fewer resources, so they really focus on player development. As they've grown successful and built a new stadium, they've found more resources to retain guys on the MLB team, but they still focus a ton on player development in the minor leagues. The Sox really have to get back to doing that, and it may take a complete overhaul in the organization's philosophy to do so. They've done a great job of getting guys with more upside in the system, but, as evidenced by the struggles of Beckham and Quentin as well as other players throughout the minor leagues, they still haven't fixed it completely.

[mcgrad70]

The last first round pick to play for the Phillies in the majors was Greg Golson for 6 plate appearances in 2008. He didn't have a hit and struck out 4 times. He was drafted in 2004. Their last top 10 pick was Gavin Floyd, and he was a colossal failure in Philadelphia. They had obvious hits in Chase Utley and Cole Hamels, and both Pat Burrell and Brett Myers were solid but not spectacular. And the Phillies really haven't had a lot of really high draft picks, and those haven't been particularly kind to Philadelphia. Burrell was 1st overall (a good pick, but he was never a superstar), JD Drew was the 2nd pick overall and didn't sign, Gavin Floyd was 4th overall and busted big time with Philly, Adam Eaton was the 11th overall and he was traded for Andy Ashby (and Eaton has been rather mediocre in his career anyways), and Brett Myers was 12th. Utley was 15th and Hamels was 17th, so as far as mid-1st round picks go, the Phillies have crushed, but they didn't do a lot with their very high picks.

 

The reason the Phillies have succeeded really has little to do with stockpiling high draft picks and, as you mentioned, it has to do with player development. Ryan Howard was a 5th round pick, Jimmy Rollins a 2nd round pick, Victorino was a 6th round pick by the Dodgers, who was then picked in the Rule V by Philly, Jayson Werth was a small free agent signing, Carlos Ruiz was an amateur free agent signing out of Panama, and a lot of the others have been big free agent signings or trades. All the Phillies have done was to collect as much talent as they could wherever they could get it from, and then use excess talent to bring in others that they have needed.

 

The Twins do the same thing, but with fewer resources, so they really focus on player development. As they've grown successful and built a new stadium, they've found more resources to retain guys on the MLB team, but they still focus a ton on player development in the minor leagues. The Sox really have to get back to doing that, and it may take a complete overhaul in the organization's philosophy to do so. They've done a great job of getting guys with more upside in the system, but, as evidenced by the struggles of Beckham and Quentin as well as other players throughout the minor leagues, they still haven't fixed it completely.

 

 

I agree with this completely but it's going to take Reinsdorf and the real owners of this team to want to change.

They seem to be content with the status quo.

Their philosophy is stay competitive until Labor Day and then the Bears will come in and take the heat off of them.

I actually saw an interview with Reinsdorf where he said it costs too much money to win championships.

So, the only way the Sox were going to win is when all the stars were aligned as they were in 2005.

I get criticized everytime I mention payroll but facts are facts.

To get the kind of compelling ballplayers we deserve is for them to raise the payroll.

Don't tell me it's the 7th best.

Chicago is 2nd or 3rd largest baseball market so the White Sox payroll should reflect that.

Their commitment to player development should be such where they commission scouts to search the world for talent.

That talent can be stockpiled for future trades as well as retooling.

This simply won't happen until an extremely wealthy White Sox fan comes in and relieves us of current ownership.

[jamesdiego]

I agree with this completely but it's going to take Reinsdorf and the real owners of this team to want to change.

They seem to be content with the status quo.

Their philosophy is stay competitive until Labor Day and then the Bears will come in and take the heat off of them.

I actually saw an interview with Reinsdorf where he said it costs too much money to win championships.

So, the only way the Sox were going to win is when all the stars were aligned as they were in 2005.

I get criticized everytime I mention payroll but facts are facts.

To get the kind of compelling ballplayers we deserve is for them to raise the payroll.

Don't tell me it's the 7th best.

Chicago is 2nd or 3rd largest baseball market so the White Sox payroll should reflect that.

Their commitment to player development should be such where they commission scouts to search the world for talent.

That talent can be stockpiled for future trades as well as retooling.

This simply won't happen until an extremely wealthy White Sox fan comes in and relieves us of current ownership.

 

 

 

You actually believe that Reinsdorf doesn't want to win championships? Are you ****ing joking? And then you bring up payroll to justify that? We had a $75 million payroll in 2005, and they bumped it up to $102 to win it the next year. I know Philly paid a chunk for Thome, but they did it to WIN in 2006. We might be a big market, but the fact is we were 16th in attendance last year. And as you pointed out 7th in payroll. They are putting the it back into the team, I don't know how you could argue that their sitting on piles of money. Thats ridiculous.