Heyman: KW wants to fire Ozzie

[scenario]

You really need to give guys like Heyman and B. Olney more credit.

 

Give him credit for what?

 

He didn't write a story about it. He put a few sentences at the end of an article on something else.

 

The big revelation...

 

One person who's familiar with the skirmishes between White Sox general manager Ken Williams and manager Ozzie Guillen said even before their latest blowup, "Kenny would like to fire him if he could.''

 

Wow. Hugely revealing. One person familiar with the skirmishes... I wonder who that was. /green

 

 

 

 

[kev211]

If this all blows up and KW leaves, and Ozzie stays. I will not watch a white sox game, attend one, or buy anything white sox related for a long time because I would be that pissed off at the organization.

[scenario]

So scenario, how can you still think nothing is going on when Konerko and Garcia confirmed that there was a very loud shouting match between Ozzie and KW?

 

Geezus... why is this so black and white with some people? Either nothing is going on... Or it's inevitable Armageddon with someone on the verge of being fired and the organization coming apart at the seams?

 

Obviously there is going to be tension given the personalities involved and the way the team is playing this year.

 

I just don't buy into the National Enquirer-like soap opera headlines... created by people whose job it is to sell headlines.

 

 

[jamesdiego]

I gotta believe that JR would do whats best for the orgainization. I'm sure he's embarrassed as hell that all this is going on while the camera's are rolling. And firing Oz during the season would just add to the embarrassment. He probably just wants to calm things down and take care of it(Ozzie) after the season. I hope.

[RockRaines]

does he want to fire Ozzie for trading for Teahen? For trading for Peavy? For trading for Pierre? Or for choosing not to bring back Thome?

Out of those moves, the 2 that were KW may actually turn out ok. Peavy will be fine, Teahen actually started hitting when he got hurt. Pierre and Thome were Oz's and are terrible.

[fathom]

Geezus... why is this so black and white with some people? Either nothing is going on... Or it's inevitable Armageddon with someone on the verge of being fired and the organization coming apart at the seams?

 

When you have the Manager's son accusing the GM's father of pulling strings to get the GM's son moved up into the batting order, that's pretty much is a soap-opera environment. Add that to the Thome issue, the Ozzie's wife yelling at KW in the parking lot while media watched, etc., and I personally don't think Cowley is reporting anything false right now.

[fathom]

Out of those moves, the 2 that were KW may actually turn out ok. Peavy will be fine, Teahen actually started hitting when he got hurt. Pierre and Thome were Oz's and are terrible.

 

Heck, I'll point out that KW's worst move was unloading Swisher for nothing when his value was so low, and I always felt like Ozzie could have done a better job of dealing with Swisher on/off the field. If Ozzie's supposed to be a player's coach, then he has done a pretty job of creating a positive clubhouse environment with guys like Swisher, Cabrera, and Getz being run out of town cause they didn't fit in.

[RockRaines]

Heck, I'll point out that KW's worst move was unloading Swisher for nothing when his value was so low, and I always felt like Ozzie could have done a better job of dealing with Swisher on/off the field. If Ozzie's supposed to be a player's coach, then he has done a pretty job of creating a positive clubhouse environment with guys like Swisher, Cabrera, and Getz being run out of town cause they didn't fit in.

He had to run those players out of town because Ozzie hated them. FWIW, I heard Oz made life very hard on Swish in the clubhouse and made the friction with old guard like JD and Konerko harder for him to deal with.

[LVSoxFan]

My first whiff that something was up was the Jim Thome affair.

 

That struck me as nothing more than blatantly trying to set up Ozzie to take all the blame for not bringing back a fan favorite. What seems to be happening now is KW looking to set up Ozzie for the failure of this team to deliver even a Central title for two years now. That said, I still don't understand why Ozzie blames the Sox for his son's draft status--as the writer noted, all the other teams passed on him the first 21 times as well.

 

What a mess: you've got a manager who is allegedly un-fireable because of his relationship with the owner. You've got a GM and plenty of fans who want Ozzie gone.

 

Watching the team this weekend, especially their batting averages, again, I ask: why does Walker have a job? I mean, if you're going to send a message (one that many people thought should have been sent years ago), wouldn't that be the obvious, don't-sink-the-whole-boat choice? I hear Ozzie defend Walk--sometimes--but have you ever heard a player do it?

 

That said, let's not forget why we suck right now--EVERYBODY is underdelivering, except for Konerko and Rios. Our batting averages are abysmal, even worse with RISP. Among the starters:

 

Pierre: .248

Pierzynski: .236

Beckham: .204

Quentin: .201 (!!!)

Ramirez: .257

Teahen: .255

Nix: .156

Kotsay: .204

Rios: .317

Paulie: .291

 

With one-third of your batting lineup at or below the Mendoza line, is it any wonder why we suck? What's the mystery here? In 2009, only one player ended up at or below the M.L.: Rios.

 

And whose bright idea was it to dump Pods after having a career year? He's batting .282 right now with 18 stolen bases.

 

And this is BEFORE we get to the pitching staff underperforming, except for Freddy Garcia... our 5th starter. Sounds like a perfect storm of crappiness, but it certainly starts with the hitting. It makes no difference how good the pitching is if we cannot score runs when we need them. And we cannot.

Edited June 14, 2010 by LVSoxFan

[scenario]

I personally don't think Cowley is reporting anything false right now.

 

Ok. It's free country.

 

But, I think you're being duped by a guy who IMO routinely creates controversy rather than reports facts... because the controversy draws more attention.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2010 by scenario

[Harry Chappas]

Kotsay and Jones are Guillen guys as well.

 

The thing is that this team is where it is due to bad starting pitching and Quentin and Beckham your #2 & #3 hitters sucking.

 

The cubs are where they are because of a bad bullpen and Ramirez and Lee sucking.

[ThunderBolt]

Ok. It's free country.

 

I think you're being duped by a guy who IMO routinely creates fantasy rather than reports facts.

There’s so much smoke to this that we’re practically choking on the fumes. I don’t see how you can just write this off. This has been sourced by multiple people with multiple different agendas. It’s not some conspiracy to bring the organization down from the outside.

[fathom]

He had to run those players out of town because Ozzie hated them. FWIW, I heard Oz made life very hard on Swish in the clubhouse and made the friction with old guard like JD and Konerko harder for him to deal with.

 

agreed, it seems he's never done anything to make relationships better in the clubhouse. I know for 100% fact that he sat around last year as the "old guard" didn't acknowledge Rios.

[fathom]

Kotsay and Jones are Guillen guys as well.

 

Jones is KW's guy

[Harry Chappas]

Jones is KW's guy

 

Jones and Guillen buddies, no? Didn't Jones actually play with Guillen in Atl. Maybe it just smells like a Guillen move

[Marty34]

Maybe it's KW's act that has the organization weary.

 

He's the GM, he should take responsibility for the team he put together. Instead, there's this notion that this is somehow Ozzie's team presumably because Ozzie says "we can win with this team"

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Jones and Guillen buddies, no? Didn't Jones actually play with Guillen in Atl. Maybe it just smells like a Guillen move

 

Williams tried to trade for Jones when he was in Atlanta. I don't remember everyone that was supposedly going, but I do seem to recall that he was going to trade Magglio along with someone else, and both Russ Ortiz and Andruw Jones were going to come over.

[fathom]

Maybe it's KW's act that has the organization weary.

 

He's the GM, he should take responsibility for the team he put together. Instead, there's this notion that this is somehow Ozzie's team presumably because Ozzie says "we can win with this team"

 

Cause Ozzie has always wanted speedy players, where as KW wanted a focus on OBP. We have Juan Pierre, who is Ozzie's favorite player in the majors, and someone he wanted on the Sox since the day he left the Marlins coaching staff. During ST, Ozzie and Hawk would tell everyone that would listen about how much they love the versatility of this team and how fast it was.

[witesoxfan]

Maybe it's KW's act that has the organization weary.

 

He's the GM, he should take responsibility for the team he put together. Instead, there's this notion that this is somehow Ozzie's team presumably because Ozzie says "we can win with this team"

 

All acquisitions require financial approval. Williams could have very well wanted to sign Thome, but if Jerry Reinsdorf says no, then it's a no. And if Jerry Reinsdorf said no because Ozzie Guillen said no, then it's still a no.

 

 

[chw42]

Please let this come true.

[southsider2k5]

Maybe it's KW's act that has the organization weary.

 

He's the GM, he should take responsibility for the team he put together. Instead, there's this notion that this is somehow Ozzie's team presumably because Ozzie says "we can win with this team"

 

Right because Kenny has never said the blame lay with him before...

[Leonard Zelig]

I wonder if any of this is getting played up for that TV show.

[fathom]

I wonder if any of this is getting played up for that TV show.

 

Great, we have Spencer and Heidi running our team.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if any of this is getting played up for that TV show.

 

The best part of that would be that would make Joe Cowley their patsy.

[greg775]

Nah, but I’ve heard rumors about insubordination, poor lineup construction, frequent media tirades, and an embarrassing sense of entitlement that his entire family feels this organization owes them

 

Insubordination: To whom? Not Jerry. To KW? Of course. Oz obviously considers KW an inferior. Is that a fireable offense? Probably not.

Lineup construction: This again? Our lineup sucks any way you slice it or dice it.

Media tirades: Give me a break. The media love him.

Sense of entitlement: Sure. He's Ozzie, a rich former ballplayer.