GreatScott82 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:24 PM) Great, we have Spencer and Heidi running our team. LOL at 'The Hills' reference!! Somebody will leave at seasons end- im guessing KW will step down as GM. JR loves Ozzie and Hahn seems very capable of taking the position. KW accommodated Ozzie by getting his boy Pierre. He even wanted to give Ozzie a lefty bat with a high OBP and Ozzie said 'no'. KW's biggest mistake was letting Ozzie put together this years team. He shouldn't have let Ozzie go with the 'rotating DH'. KW needs to take the keys back from Ozzie and do whats best for the organization. I would much rather Ozzie get fired than see KW go. I think that go getter mentality for the past 10 years is exactly what this team needed in a GM- it got us one World Title and I truly believe KW has what it takes to bring us another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:46 PM) Insubordination: To whom? Not Jerry. To KW? Of course. Oz obviously considers KW an inferior. Is that a fireable offense? Probably not. Lineup construction: This again? Our lineup sucks any way you slice it or dice it. Media tirades: Give me a break. The media love him. Sense of entitlement: Sure. He's Ozzie, a rich former ballplayer. Since when is considering your boss an inferior NOT insubordination? How is that not a fireable offense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:50 PM) Since when is considering your boss an inferior NOT insubordination? How is that not a fireable offense? Because JR loves Ozzie, and JR is above Williams, so it's obviously not insubordination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 09:50 PM) Since when is considering your boss an inferior NOT insubordination? How is that not a fireable offense? When you win the World Series in 2005, you are immune from the common laws of the work place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 01:05 PM) Well, the Pierre and Thome decisions were Ozzie's. KW pulled the trigger on Pierre and arguable on Thome, too. He's no lacky, he makes his own calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Since when is considering your boss an inferior NOT insubordination? How is that not a fireable offense? In our dysfunctional organization, only Jerry is Ozzie's boss. It's pretty obvious Oz has never treated KW like his "boss." KW has no power over Oz; never has and never will. I would think everybody would agree Jerry "likes" Oz more than KW. I'd go so far as to say Oz is ahead of KW on Jerry's depth chart. That's pretty apparent. KW is Oz's boss only in KW's mind IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 10:55 PM) KW pulled the trigger on Pierre and arguable on Thome, too. He's no lacky, he makes his own calls. I disagree with you 100 percent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Not really surprised that we're seeing more articles like this, all I can say is get used to it if we continue to struggle. I want Ozzie out and a new manager brought in, but as each day passes, I get worried that KW is going to become an executive and Ozzie will stay on next season, which is a worst case scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 10:56 PM) In our dysfunctional organization, only Jerry is Ozzie's boss. It's pretty obvious Oz has never treated KW like his "boss." KW has no power over Oz; never has and never will. I would think everybody would agree Jerry "likes" Oz more than KW. I'd go so far as to say Oz is ahead of KW on Jerry's depth chart. That's pretty apparent. KW is Oz's boss only in KW's mind IMO. And sadly, you don't see a problem with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:56 PM) And sadly, you don't see a problem with this. That's just scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:46 PM) Insubordination: To whom? Not Jerry. To KW? Of course. Oz obviously considers KW an inferior. Is that a fireable offense? Probably not. Lineup construction: This again? Our lineup sucks any way you slice it or dice it. Media tirades: Give me a break. The media love him. Sense of entitlement: Sure. He's Ozzie, a rich former ballplayer. 1. Yes that's a fireable offense 2. You're right. 3. The media loves him because he goes on tirades. That make our organization as a whole look bad 4. So its ok to have a sense of entitlement as long as your a former ball player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:56 PM) In our dysfunctional organization, only Jerry is Ozzie's boss. It's pretty obvious Oz has never treated KW like his "boss." KW has no power over Oz; never has and never will. I would think everybody would agree Jerry "likes" Oz more than KW. I'd go so far as to say Oz is ahead of KW on Jerry's depth chart. That's pretty apparent. KW is Oz's boss only in KW's mind IMO. You act like this is acceptable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Can you imagine if Jaime Navarro is ever the Manager? Could you imagine you how much entitlement he'd have with all the money he received during his career? Greg, I hate to break it to you, but if KW takes a different position and Ozzie stays as manager, he's going to get ripped on 10 times more than he ever has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Wonder what kind of a manager Joe Crede would make.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 10:03 PM) Wonder what kind of a manager Joe Crede would make.... He'd probably start off strong, and then have to take a Leave of Absence when his back hurts him in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 If/when this ends in KW stepping down/back and Ozzie staying, I will be devastated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I think KW steps down after this season. Ozzie stays for another year, at least. Depending on the outcome of the season, maybe he'll be gone after 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I know this is going to make me sound like I’m fair-weather fan, but if KW takes the fall and Ozzie stays on, I’d seriously have to reevaluate whether I can root for a team where Ozzie has complete impunity to do whatever he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 03:03 PM) If this is true our GM is virtually powerless and the inmate is running the asylum. That’s a cheerful thought. If anything KW stepping down (or up) and Hahn taking over will just be an extension of this puppet show. I refuse to believe that Jerry is loyal to the point of destruction. I agree with you 100% on this. If the GM can't fire the manager it undermines his authority and he can lose the respect of the manager and the coaching staff. And not allowing the GM to travel with the team so as not to upset Ozzie is asinine. A couple of years ago when Ozzie made that comment about changes maybe needing to be made, "..it could be the players, it could be me, it could be Greg Walker...", Walker went crying directly to JR bypassing the chain of command thus undermining both Ozzie's and Kenny's authority. JR allowing things like this to happen out of some misguided sense of loyalty is the main cause of the disarray this organization is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 No, I don't see a problem with it. KW has the power to make trades. I guess KW was nice enough to consult Oz in the offseason, maybe even under Jerry's orders to do so. Why would this be a problem? KW probably has and should have the authority to make personnel moves; Oz makes the lineup, etc., and basially stays away from Kenny except when he's really pissed like after the draft. So you guys at least agree with my take on this? I thought you might disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) I would suspect if this is totally true, JR would not let KW fire Ozzie until all avenues of reconciliation were attempted and they failed. He'll be very deliberate and maybe will never let KW fire Ozzie or may reluctantly let him if he figures they cannot work together. I wonder if KW is hoping Ozzie says something so crazy, something most of us feel will eventually lead to Ozzie's demise, so he has to fire him. I still think my theory that Ozzie's voice became heard a lot more by the 2009 failure even with adding significant payroll during the season, may be valid. I know for a fact JR was pissed off at the end of last season with the team's performance. Maybe he started listening to Ozzie more and more. The quote JR had this past winter when he said about Ozzie, "he should get the team he wants", makes me think he was willing to try Ozzie's way at least this season. Barry Rozner had a column the other day saying it was time JR stepped in and likened Ozzie to a seven year old brat who will do whatever he pleases because he knows he'll never be held accountable. Both these guys have huge egos and both really believe they are the reason there is a WS trophy at USCF. Edited June 14, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 If KW goes and Ozzie stays I'm sooooo done with this organization for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) I disagree with you 100 percent Ditto, and I thought it was very obvious in the off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 04:36 PM) And whose bright idea was it to dump Pods after having a career year? He's batting .282 right now with 18 stolen bases. We've been over this ad nauseam... KW did try to bring Pods back but he wanted multiple years at something like 7 million per Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 05:39 PM) I would suspect if this is totally true, JR would not let KW fire Ozzie until all avenues of reconciliation were attempted and they failed. He'll be very deliberate and maybe will never let KW fire Ozzie or may reluctantly let him if he figures they cannot work together. I wonder if KW is hoping Ozzie says something so crazy, something most of us feel will eventually lead to Ozzie's demise, so he has to fire him. I still think my theory that Ozzie's voice became heard a lot more by the 2009 failure even with adding significant payroll during the season, may be valid. I know for a fact JR was pissed off at the end of last season with the team's performance. Maybe he started listening to Ozzie more and more. The quote JR had this past winter when he said about Ozzie, "he should get the team he wants", makes me think he was willing to try Ozzie's way at least this season. Barry Rozner had a column the other day saying it was time JR stepped in and likened Ozzie to a seven year old brat who will do whatever he pleases because he knows he'll never be held accountable. Both these guys have huge egos and both really believe they are the reason there is a WS trophy at USCF. Thx for the heads up, good read. Now why can't either of our larger two papers call Ozzie out like that.. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=387492 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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