Heyman: KW wants to fire Ozzie

[Jordan4life_2007]

KW is the one who talked about needing a lead off hitter for a long time before Pods started working last year, then went out and drafted another High K rate guy to be the CF and leadoff hitter of the future. He pursued Pods and Brett Gardner in the off-season before settling for Pierre.

 

The Sox player development is a joke, the longer guys are here the worse hitters they become. We have a depleted farm system, have bad contracts throughout the ML roster that hamstring the team from making any moves to improve.

 

This is like not true at all.

[whitesoxfan99]

Pierre is now batting .248 with 25 stolen bases and 6 CS (which leads the league), his batting average has been going up starting around mid may after a completely brutal start that had me wanting Pierre dumped for a bag of balls.

 

Pods is batting .282 with 18 stolen bases and 6 CS, and his batting average has been going down after having a torrid start which had his average above .300 until late may when he started coming back to his normal numbers.

 

 

 

Lets stop acting like Pods would be saving our season right now if he was leading off. Pierre is the same player with a little bit better instincts on the basepaths, better defense, and less power.

 

Pods also only has a .333 OBP which is terrible for a guy who has no power at all and doesn't play good defense. He isn't a good baseball player. Why anyone would want him on the White Sox is beyond me.

[justBLAZE]

Cowley tweets that Kenny Williams will be making the roadtrip to Pittsburgh and Washington, together with the team for the first time this year.

 

http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/16190596398

 

[witesoxfan]

Ozzie Guillen's fascination with speed and scrappy ball players is a bit disturbing, but to be fair, Williams has his own odd fascinations as well, especially Darin Erstad. I do atleast believe that Williams understands the backbone of success, and he generally tries to acquire impact type talents, hence his trades for Everett (in 2003), Garcia, Contreras, the entire roster shuffling in the 04-05 offseason, Thome, Vazquez, etc, all the way through Rios and Peavy. Ozzie Guillen seemingly insists on playing the Mark Kotsay's, Timo Perez's, and Darin Erstad's of the world to the point of absolute nausea. Ozzie Guillen getting more power within the White Sox organization would be a very, very, very scary proposition and it would be equal to that of the New York Knicks giving full control of their organization to Isiah Thomas.

[southsider2k5]

The Peavy and Rios acquisitions chewed up too many resources to allow this team a chance at being a serious contender. That is squarely on Kenny.

 

Rios is one of the reasons we aren't 15 games out.

[kev211]

Cowley tweets that Kenny Williams will be making the roadtrip to Pittsburgh and Washington, together with the team for the first time this year.

 

http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/16190596398

Not even KW can resist seeing Strasburg in person.

[chw42]

He'd probably start off strong, and then have to take a Leave of Absence when his back hurts him in July.

 

lmao, they gotta move a couch into the dugout for him.

[chw42]

Juan Pierre's WAR: 0.3

 

Scott Podsednik's WAR: 0.2

 

BAM!

 

Pods has been hitting pretty bad lately as well.

[greg775]

He'd probably start off strong, and then have to take a Leave of Absence when his back hurts him in July.

 

I assume this is a joke. I would think it was.

Since it wasn't in green ...

Crede didn't ask to have back trouble. I hope you never have back trouble. I have a friend who needed back surgery and the doctor f***ed it up and he has to use a cane at the age of 34.

Crede didn't ask for his back to fall apart.

If Crede was a Cub, he'd be like Santo to their fan base. He was a KEY FACTOR in us winning it all.

Cubdom would worship him.

Edited June 15, 2010 by greg775

[chisoxfan09]

No easy answers to this at all. And just think JFP came over saying he was comin over to a truly "We got our stuff together organization". This family has become totally dysfunctional.

[joeynach]

Allow me to speculate about all of this with a completely different hypothesis.

Consider the following:

1) Baseball is after all entertainment

2) Jerry Reinsdorf is a pretty smart owner

3) There is intense competition between the Sox and Cubs for the Chicago baseball entertainment dollar.

4) There is this MLB.COM reality show being produced featuring the White Sox.

5) Ozzie has always been regarded as a very entertaining personality, and not above theatrics

I recall the video of A.J. and the mock fight with a professional wrestler during Spring Training, a couple of years ago, in which Ozzie participated by hitting the guy with a folding chair.

 

What if the producers of MLB.COM suggested to the Sox that they could generate a lot of interest and publicity if they staged a big riff between Ozzie and Kenny? Jerry Reinsdorf, though reluctant to go along, decided it would be worth the publicity.

 

Such a scenario would explain how a smart business man like Reinsdorf would tolerate such behavior without stepping in and firing someone. If this is not an act, then there are a lot of people here who are bigger idiots than we think. Ozzie would have to be an idiot for allowing his sons to cause so much controversy. Kenny Williams would have to be an idiot for not exercising some self restraint, and for allowing Ozzie to usurp his responsibilities and control.

Ozzie’s family would all have to be idiots for creating such a scene and jeopardizing Ozzie’s professional career. After all none of this would look good on his resume, if it were real, and if he ever intends to get another managing job in the Big Leagues.

 

If this isn't a publicity stunt, wouldn't you think that everyone involved would be on their best behavior, knowing that it will all come out in the MLB.COM show?

Maybe we're the idiots here for falling for this stunt.

 

“I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’‘.

 

Luv this.

[pktmotion]

Allow me to speculate about all of this with a completely different hypothesis.

Consider the following:

1) Baseball is after all entertainment

2) Jerry Reinsdorf is a pretty smart owner

3) There is intense competition between the Sox and Cubs for the Chicago baseball entertainment dollar.

4) There is this MLB.COM reality show being produced featuring the White Sox.

5) Ozzie has always been regarded as a very entertaining personality, and not above theatrics

I recall the video of A.J. and the mock fight with a professional wrestler during Spring Training, a couple of years ago, in which Ozzie participated by hitting the guy with a folding chair.

 

What if the producers of MLB.COM suggested to the Sox that they could generate a lot of interest and publicity if they staged a big riff between Ozzie and Kenny? Jerry Reinsdorf, though reluctant to go along, decided it would be worth the publicity.

 

Such a scenario would explain how a smart business man like Reinsdorf would tolerate such behavior without stepping in and firing someone. If this is not an act, then there are a lot of people here who are bigger idiots than we think. Ozzie would have to be an idiot for allowing his sons to cause so much controversy. Kenny Williams would have to be an idiot for not exercising some self restraint, and for allowing Ozzie to usurp his responsibilities and control.

Ozzie’s family would all have to be idiots for creating such a scene and jeopardizing Ozzie’s professional career. After all none of this would look good on his resume, if it were real, and if he ever intends to get another managing job in the Big Leagues.

 

If this isn't a publicity stunt, wouldn't you think that everyone involved would be on their best behavior, knowing that it will all come out in the MLB.COM show?

Maybe we're the idiots here for falling for this stunt.

 

“I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’‘.

 

I would've agreed with you completely, before the draft. My general assumption was much like yours, The White Sox/MLB are trying to generate some interest in there upcoming show, so they're showcasing the dysfunctional dynamic between KW/Ozzie.

 

But the Sox taking Ozney at round 22, where he was projected at 8-12. Is a pretty hard hit to question if it was fake. It's one thing to stage a riff between two characters in Chicago and its another thing to jeopardize a young talent's financial/professional career and use him as a pawn in a publicity stunt. What if another team had taking Ozney? MLB would've had to manipulate the draft so as Ozney would've been available that late. If that's the case, it then becomes a disconcerting case of MLB's authority. I think the relationship between Ozzie/KW is entirely real and has been for some time, only now before their reality show is it starting to garner more media attention.

Edited June 15, 2010 by pktmotion

[Lillian]

I would've agreed with you completely, before the draft. My general assumption was much like yours, The White Sox/MLB are trying to generate some interest in there upcoming show, so they're showcasing the dysfunctional dynamic between KW/Ozzie.

 

But the Sox taking Ozney at round 22, where he was projected at 8-12. Is a pretty hard hit to question if it was fake. It's one thing to stage a riff between two characters in Chicago and its another thing to jeopardize a young talent's financial/professional career and use him as a pawn in a publicity stunt. What if another team had taking Ozney? MLB would've had to manipulate the draft so as Ozney would've been available that late. If that's the case, it then becomes a disconcerting case of MLB's authority. I think the relationship between Ozzie/KW is entirely real and has been for some time, only now before their reality show is it starting to garner more media attention.

 

Well, you have a point. However, didn't Ozzie and Ozney have an agreement that he would go to college if he wasn't picked by the 6th round?

If that's true, then I guess it really didn't matter whether he was picked in the 8th, or the 22nd round.

 

I just find it hard to believe that all of these people have suddenly displayed their worst behavior, at precisely the moment that they are being so carefully scrutinized by the MLB.COM coverage. Wouldn't you think that the opposite would be true?

They should all be trying to put forth their best public image, unless it's just a well orchestrated stunt.

 

For my part, I'm put off by the whole thing, either way. If they are all such idiots, I find it embarrassing as a Sox fan.

If it's all a stunt, I'm equally offended by their attempt to dupe baseball fans everywhere. If I enjoyed these kinds of silly theatrics, I'd be a fan of Wrestlemania, not baseball.

[Milkman delivers]

Ozzie Guillen's fascination with speed and scrappy ball players is a bit disturbing, but to be fair, Williams has his own odd fascinations as well, especially Darin Erstad. I do atleast believe that Williams understands the backbone of success, and he generally tries to acquire impact type talents, hence his trades for Everett (in 2003), Garcia, Contreras, the entire roster shuffling in the 04-05 offseason, Thome, Vazquez, etc, all the way through Rios and Peavy. Ozzie Guillen seemingly insists on playing the Mark Kotsay's, Timo Perez's, and Darin Erstad's of the world to the point of absolute nausea. Ozzie Guillen getting more power within the White Sox organization would be a very, very, very scary proposition and it would be equal to that of the New York Knicks giving full control of their organization to Isiah Thomas.

 

That's perfect.

[southsider2k5]

I assume this is a joke. I would think it was.

Since it wasn't in green ...

Crede didn't ask to have back trouble. I hope you never have back trouble. I have a friend who needed back surgery and the doctor f***ed it up and he has to use a cane at the age of 34.

Crede didn't ask for his back to fall apart.

If Crede was a Cub, he'd be like Santo to their fan base. He was a KEY FACTOR in us winning it all.

Cubdom would worship him.

 

So you want people here to start acting more like Cub fans?

[chetkincaid]

Allow me to speculate about all of this with a completely different hypothesis.

Consider the following:

1) Baseball is after all entertainment

2) Jerry Reinsdorf is a pretty smart owner

3) There is intense competition between the Sox and Cubs for the Chicago baseball entertainment dollar.

4) There is this MLB.COM reality show being produced featuring the White Sox.

5) Ozzie has always been regarded as a very entertaining personality, and not above theatrics

I recall the video of A.J. and the mock fight with a professional wrestler during Spring Training, a couple of years ago, in which Ozzie participated by hitting the guy with a folding chair.

 

What if the producers of MLB.COM suggested to the Sox that they could generate a lot of interest and publicity if they staged a big riff between Ozzie and Kenny? Jerry Reinsdorf, though reluctant to go along, decided it would be worth the publicity.

 

Such a scenario would explain how a smart business man like Reinsdorf would tolerate such behavior without stepping in and firing someone. If this is not an act, then there are a lot of people here who are bigger idiots than we think. Ozzie would have to be an idiot for allowing his sons to cause so much controversy. Kenny Williams would have to be an idiot for not exercising some self restraint, and for allowing Ozzie to usurp his responsibilities and control.

Ozzie’s family would all have to be idiots for creating such a scene and jeopardizing Ozzie’s professional career. After all none of this would look good on his resume, if it were real, and if he ever intends to get another managing job in the Big Leagues.

 

If this isn't a publicity stunt, wouldn't you think that everyone involved would be on their best behavior, knowing that it will all come out in the MLB.COM show?

Maybe we're the idiots here for falling for this stunt.

 

“I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’‘.

 

I would buy in to this if the team didn't suck so bad. I mean publicity be damned. These guys want to win first and foremost. It would be different if they were leading the AL Central by 5 games and cruising along.

 

[pktmotion]

Well, you have a point. However, didn't Ozzie and Ozney have an agreement that he would go to college if he wasn't picked by the 6th round?

If that's true, then I guess it really didn't matter whether he was picked in the 8th, or the 22nd round.

 

I just find it hard to believe that all of these people have suddenly displayed their worst behavior, at precisely the moment that they are being so carefully scrutinized by the MLB.COM coverage. Wouldn't you think that the opposite would be true?

They should all be trying to put forth their best public image, unless it's just a well orchestrated stunt.

 

For my part, I'm put off by the whole thing, either way. If they are all such idiots, I find it embarrassing as a Sox fan.

If it's all a stunt, I'm equally offended by their attempt to dupe baseball fans everywhere. If I enjoyed these kinds of silly theatrics, I'd be a fan of Wrestlemania, not baseball.

 

This is definitely something that provokes speculation, more so your point on Reinsdorf's behavior. We're all familiar with KW/Ozzie rapport, we can judge when the media tries to frame this problem as a current predicament, when us Sox fans know different; but the puzzling thing, as you stated, is Reinsdorf lack of intervention during this tug-of-war. When the sides got personal and started involving family(Oney,Ozney) and different business ventures(Market Restaurant) Reinsdorf should've stepped in and reminded everyone what their jobs/roles were. Because last time I checked neither of them have been very effective this year. The reason he didn't do that and allowed this to ballon into a farce is head scratching. But I'm not much for conspiracy theories.

[LittleHurt05]

I assume this is a joke. I would think it was.

Since it wasn't in green ...

Crede didn't ask to have back trouble. I hope you never have back trouble. I have a friend who needed back surgery and the doctor f***ed it up and he has to use a cane at the age of 34.

Crede didn't ask for his back to fall apart.

If Crede was a Cub, he'd be like Santo to their fan base. He was a KEY FACTOR in us winning it all.

Cubdom would worship him.

 

Ugh, you keep comparing 05 Sox players to the best players in Cub history, when they aren't even close to the same situation. Ron Santo is a borderline HOF player who spent his whole 15 year career on the North Side, but stopped playing 36 years ago. Joe Crede would never be close to sniffing a HOF vote, but is a player still trying to play in the majors, so he is being discussed in context to the present day. No one here ever says Crede did nothing to help us win the 05 title, I wish he never played here. Sox fans will always remember him for his contributions to a WS title and 9 solid seasons here, especially even more as time passes. But they will also remember that a back injury kept him from reaching his full potential unfortunately.

[hogan873]

Ugh, you keep comparing 05 Sox players to the best players in Cub history, when they aren't even close to the same situation. Ron Santo is a borderline HOF player who spent his whole 15 year career on the North Side, but stopped playing 36 years ago. Joe Crede would never be close to sniffing a HOF vote, but is a player still trying to play in the majors, so he is being discussed in context to the present day. No one here ever says Crede did nothing to help us win the 05 title, I wish he never played here. Sox fans will always remember him for his contributions to a WS title and 9 solid seasons here, especially even more as time passes. But they will also remember that a back injury kept him from reaching his full potential unfortunately.

I agree. The outburst that resulted from the (funny) crack about Crede's back if he were a manager was unwarranted, in my opinion. What Crede did for the 2005 Sox is almost "Randolph Scott" worthy (remove your hat in reverence). It's too bad that Crede has a bad back. Maybe without his health issues he could have had a career like Santo...we'll never know. I'm certain he didn't ask for a bad back...I didn't ask for bad knees...I'm sure others on this board have maladies they didn't ask for. Just take it easy.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Sure he's been worth his contract, but the team is still languishing. KW put together an offense that could not afford a bad year from it's big hitters (i.e. Beckham and Quentin) because there were holes other places. Konerko and Rios are having MVP type seasons and the offense is still one of the worst in the league.

 

 

We've got an expensive ass starting rotation and bullpen that should be performing...they weren't. This offense was never expected to produce big numbers because the pitching was supposed to make that unnecessary.

 

But in your world, this past offseason we would have traded Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, or Floyd in a salary dump then use the money to sign a backup RF and backup 2B just to hedge against bad seasons from CQ and Beckham. I'm glad you're not our GM.

Edited June 15, 2010 by mmmmmbeeer

[WCSox]

But the Sox taking Ozney at round 22, where he was projected at 8-12.

 

Just goes to show what those projections are worth. If Ozney was a legit prospect, one of the other 31 teams would've taken him somewhere between rounds 13-20.

 

[Chisoxfn]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...walt.lee/1.html

 

 

 

If this is true, it's not surprising at all. And it's sad as well.

Ozzie needs to go. Unfortunately I dno't think it will happen. JR needs to have more faith in Kenny than Ozzie but I know JR is loyal, sometimes to a fault and in this case it is a major fault.

[greg775]

I don't think it's wrong to defend a WS hero when somebody is mocking him for what? Having a bad back. It's not his fault he has a bad back.

What's wrong with sticking up for a hero? The World Series is uh, a big deal.

[chw42]

I assume this is a joke. I would think it was.

Since it wasn't in green ...

Crede didn't ask to have back trouble. I hope you never have back trouble. I have a friend who needed back surgery and the doctor f***ed it up and he has to use a cane at the age of 34.

Crede didn't ask for his back to fall apart.

If Crede was a Cub, he'd be like Santo to their fan base. He was a KEY FACTOR in us winning it all.

Cubdom would worship him.

So with this logic, since you worship Crede and suggest that Cubdom would also worship Crede, that means you're a Cubs fan?

[chw42]

I don't think it's wrong to defend a WS hero when somebody is mocking him for what? Having a bad back. It's not his fault he has a bad back.

What's wrong with sticking up for a hero? The World Series is uh, a big deal.

 

He was kidding and it was funny. You take players from that 05 team far, far, far too seriously.