Peavy has fluid in his shoulder

[bmags]

I'm shocked to see that bulldog makeup we heard so much about this offseason hasn't come through. Surely someone as prepared and competitive and mentally sharp and angry and good at interviewing as Peavy was should translate into little health problems and maximum wins. After all, wouldn't a true bulldog mentality cause him to rip off his arm from his shoulder and beat the batter unconscious.

 

I swear, the disappointment from this season makes me feel like offseason reporting might be...gulp...meaningless?!

[LittleHurt05]

Steve, you forgot to say April Fools

[chetkincaid]

I'm shocked to see that bulldog makeup we heard so much about this offseason hasn't come through. Surely someone as prepared and competitive and mentally sharp and angry and good at interviewing as Peavy was should translate into little health problems and maximum wins. After all, wouldn't a true bulldog mentality cause him to rip off his arm from his shoulder and beat the batter unconscious.

 

I swear, the disappointment from this season makes me feel like offseason reporting might be...gulp...meaningless?!

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? DON'T YOU SEE THE BULLDOG IN HIM WHEN HE SCREAMS ON THE MOUND AFTER MISSING THE SPOT WITH ONE OF HIS PITCHES??

 

[Chisoxfn]

Peavy's MRI came back clean and the ailment is now being described as an "achy shoulder". His next start -- which was supposed to be tomorrow -- WILL be pushed back to either Friday or Saturday in Washington.

Probably more to do with his body not used to be pitching in a full season given that he missed a hefty chunk of last season.

[dyuen]

How did the pitchers in the old days throw so many pitches and have long careers?

Seems like the modern starting pitcher is very brittle.

My theory is guys made a heck of a lot less money and didnt have the long term contracts so they knew that they had to pitch or get lost. The owners controlled so much before free agency so guys had to tough it out. Plus the DL rules were a lot less flexible back then.

[Chisoxfn]

My theory is guys made a heck of a lot less money and didnt have the long term contracts so they knew that they had to pitch or get lost. The owners controlled so much before free agency so guys had to tough it out. Plus the DL rules were a lot less flexible back then.

I think it is also a bit of a misconcieved notion that pitchers didn't get hurt in the past. I believe a lot of them got hurt but its hard to remember it because those that did never made it back. I have no statistics to back it up, but I remember hearing that from a few old time players. Now there were clearly guys with rubber arms, but injuries still happened back in the days.

 

I also think hitters are in general better now and pitchers in general throw harder now than ever before. So because hitters are better, you see pitchers have to throw far more high stress pitches and with pitchers throwing faster and being stronger, the ligaments and muscles are more likely to pop-etc. These are all complete, factless theories I personally have.

 

I'm not a doctor and I haven't done a lick of actual statistical research on the # of injuries that happened in the old days vs now. But in the past, if you got hurt, you gutted it out until you couldn't do it anymore because there wasn't a procedure that could fix you magically. Now, you don't keep gutting it out, you undergo surgery because after surgery you have a pretty good shot at a full recovery.

[iamshack]

A lot of it is what Jason said. You had a LOT more Jamie Moyer type guys that threw 70-83 mph and didn't max out their arms on every pitch like a Bobby Jenks or Eric Gagne.

 

Then the conditioning was also a lot different. There were no pitch counts or 5 days rest and so your arm got conditioned to throwing more often and for longer duration.

 

The Rangers, led by Nolan Ryan, are trying to make a transition to abandoning the obsession with pitch counts.

[Chisoxfn]

A lot of it is what Jason said. You had a LOT more Jamie Moyer type guys that threw 70-83 mph and didn't max out their arms on every pitch like a Bobby Jenks or Eric Gagne.

 

Then the conditioning was also a lot different. There were no pitch counts or 5 days rest and so your arm got conditioned to throwing more often and for longer duration.

 

The Rangers, led by Nolan Ryan, are trying to make a transition to abandoning the obsession with pitch counts.

The problem is, the Rangers method is kind of stupid, since the development would have to start at a far younger age to ensure guys muscles are ready to handle it all. Might work a little easier with the high school guys, but college players have to go through quite the transformation and obviously at the very least it needs to be started from the low-minors onward.

 

I think removing guys because of the sake of a pitch count is dumb, you have to watch for things like stress innings, mechanics, etc, but you also have to do what you can to ensure your guys aren't beat up. The reality is these guys make a lot more money than they did in the past so you are benefited by doing what you can to try to reduce the chances of an injury. In the old days, they didn't make tens of millions of dollars so if a guy got hurt, a team didn't have to worry about all of the money it had sank away and how it had ruined there budget.

 

 

[iamshack]

The problem is, the Rangers method is kind of stupid, since the development would have to start at a far younger age to ensure guys muscles are ready to handle it all. Might work a little easier with the high school guys, but college players have to go through quite the transformation and obviously at the very least it needs to be started from the low-minors onward.

 

I think removing guys because of the sake of a pitch count is dumb, you have to watch for things like stress innings, mechanics, etc, but you also have to do what you can to ensure your guys aren't beat up. The reality is these guys make a lot more money than they did in the past so you are benefited by doing what you can to try to reduce the chances of an injury. In the old days, they didn't make tens of millions of dollars so if a guy got hurt, a team didn't have to worry about all of the money it had sank away and how it had ruined there budget.

Right, most people have stated that going back to a 4-man rotation would require a full switch in all of the minor league affiliates and developing all your pitchers that way.

 

What the Rangers are doing is gradually taking the emphasis off pitch counts and more on to "feel."

 

Will be interesting to see what long-term affects it has, especially once the Texas heat starts baking them...

[Harry Chappas]

Bob Feller was awesome...I think Ryan took PED's...

 

I think they thre much fewer breaking crap in the past and pitched through the pain.

[joeynach]

Rotoworld, Peavy has fluid in his arm.

 

Jake Peavy (arm) will attempt to start for the White Sox on Saturday.

Peavy was scratched Wednesday from his scheduled Thursday start and the White Sox announced on Thursday afternoon that he will not pitch Friday either. Gavin Floyd will start instead against the Nationals. Peavy has some fluid in his arm that is causing him mild discomfort.

[Steve9347]

I think shortly we're going to realize that my original title "Peavy's arm is f*cked" was perfectly accurate. According to the Score, he is scheduled to meet with KW to discuss his "options".

Edited June 17, 2010 by Steve9347

[daggins]

He might need some time on the DL but i'd hardly say his arm is f*cked.

[fathom]

I think shortly we're going to realize that my original title "Peavy's arm is f*cked" was perfectly accurate. According to the Score, he is scheduled to meet with KW to discuss his "options".

 

He's going to go on the DL in my opinion.

[justBLAZE]

Peavy starting Saturday and says he 'feels great'.

[chw42]

Looks like his mechanics have caught up to him. Crap.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Looks like his mechanics have caught up to him. Crap.

 

Do you say the same thing when a centerfielder gets fluid on his knee?

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

Do you say the same thing when a centerfielder gets fluid on his knee?

 

Well, we would ask what exactly is causing the fluid

[GREEDY]

Well, we would ask what exactly is causing the fluid

 

BP

[chw42]

Do you say the same thing when a centerfielder gets fluid on his knee?

 

It depends on whether or not the center fielder runs weird or constantly bashes his knee with his bat.

[knightni]

It depends on whether or not the center fielder runs weird or constantly bashes his knee with his bat.

So, you remember Aaron Rowand!

[ptatc]

very good to hear, maybe Ptac can add a little to what the MRI could show and what further tests might be done if it continues... to me the most ridiculous thing was having him warm up so quickly at home a few weeks back, Hawk and Stone said it was the quickest they saw a SP ever warm up, should have started Pena for an inning or two if necessary

 

MRI basically stands for "more radiographic income" They really don't show much except significant muscle, cartilage or ligament tears. In the case of the shoulder it's the rotator cuff, labrum or capsule respectively. This works by contrasting fluid against tissue in the area. If it doesn't show anything, this there is no significant tear but it doesn't mean there is nothing wrong.

 

[ptatc]

How did the pitchers in the old days throw so many pitches and have long careers?

Seems like the modern starting pitcher is very brittle.

 

In the old days pitchers threw alot more pitches and innings in the minor leagues. There were also fewer MLB and many MiLB teams. If a pitcher was going to blow out his arm he did it in the minors and we never heard of them. The ones who couldn't handle the workload were weeded out before the majors.

 

[ptatc]

The problem is, the Rangers method is kind of stupid, since the development would have to start at a far younger age to ensure guys muscles are ready to handle it all. Might work a little easier with the high school guys, but college players have to go through quite the transformation and obviously at the very least it needs to be started from the low-minors onward.

 

I think removing guys because of the sake of a pitch count is dumb, you have to watch for things like stress innings, mechanics, etc, but you also have to do what you can to ensure your guys aren't beat up. The reality is these guys make a lot more money than they did in the past so you are benefited by doing what you can to try to reduce the chances of an injury. In the old days, they didn't make tens of millions of dollars so if a guy got hurt, a team didn't have to worry about all of the money it had sank away and how it had ruined there budget.

 

This is wrong due to the factors you mentioned earlier. The pitchers have always been conditioned to throw a certain number of pitches. Also, many of the pitchers cannot handle that type of workload and you will injure them. As I stated earlier they haven't been weeded out in the minors and with the money they make the teams don't want to take that chance and I don't blame them.

 

It's just like running. Some people can log hundred of miles a week without injury and other will get injured with 20 miles per week.

[witesoxfan]