If we do get back in this. . .

[hogan873]

I'd like to see Prince acquired and swinging the bat in a Sox jersey. He's going to command a ton of money, and I wonder if KW would even try to sign him if he were acquired. Maybe they could throw in a clause that guarantees him free Chicago pizza for his tenure a Sox?

[witesoxfan]

I'd like to see Prince acquired and swinging the bat in a Sox jersey. He's going to command a ton of money, and I wonder if KW would even try to sign him if he were acquired. Maybe they could throw in a clause that guarantees him free Chicago pizza for his tenure a Sox?

 

Better be cheese or mushroom pizza

[GreatScott82]

Adam Dunn does not make the most sense for this team. They'd only have him for this season, they'll have to pay out the ass to get him (because he'll almost certainly be a Type A free agent), and they won't be able to resign him.

 

I think I'm going to trust the guy who has proven to be accurate before over pure conjecture and assume that the Sox are atleast talking internally about acquiring Prince Fielder.

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince Fielder. But if we aqcuire him, it would likely be for a package of Hudson, Flowers and Viciedo not to mention his large contract for 2011. If we are paying Prince Fielder 11 million next year, that pretty much all but ends the possibility of bringing back Konerko and AJ. Who will replace AJ at catcher next year if we deal Flowers for Fielder? I wonder if KW can be swift and have Milwaukee pay about 6 million of his remaining salary? If he does that- we can likely re-sign AJ. . .

 

As far as Adam Dunn goes. Although he is a Type free agent, he would likely cost less than Fielder in regards to prospects. And Im sure Washington would rather have guys they can immediately insert into their lineup for next year rather than wait for the draft. .

[RockRaines]

But does it really, really make sense to trade Flowers, Hudson, Danks/Morel (etc.) for Prince Fielder?

 

I'm not even convinced it makes complete sense to trade Viciedo for Fielder, simply because 6 years of an affordable Viciedo might end up providing a lot more production than a season and one-half of Fielder, and then there's the fact that he will have to adjust to the AL pitching as well. (Yes, I'm well aware Fielder is a proven commodity...and that the trade would be much bigger than Viciedo for Fielder anyway.)

 

That's a riskier move than adding Rios and Peavy, because we lost a fifth starter/long reliever out of that, not 2 or 3 key future pegs on our roster.

 

Because if we can't keep Fielder long-term (or afford him, and we haven't exactly shown a proclivity for handing $100 million+ contracts out), then this franchise is really going to be in a huge hole, and it would also make it nearly impossible to keep Danks as well.

 

I just don't think you can do it, simply because Minnesota has a lot more bullets and they can trump any move we make...we have to fight it out this season and preserve out competitiveness for the future as well. This is a "go for broke," all cards and money in move, and it's just a questionable move because 1B/DH has proven to be a position where it's easier to find comparable production (unless it's someone like Pujols on a whole other plane of impact) and split up that money going to Fielder 3-4-5 ways.

Well, a few days ago everyone was saying Flowers wont contribute and Viciedo is a 1B. Now if you are talking money, Fielder immediately takes Konerko's money after this season and we arent much worse for wear.

 

As far as similar production, 400 OBP and a guy who won a HR title isnt something that is THAT easy to find to be honest.

[RockRaines]

I just dont see KW trading 2 long term position players and a potential 2-3 type starting pitcher for 1.5 years of Fielder, especially with Boras as his agent. Be prepared for the Adam Dunn rumors to continue to heat up because it makes the most sense for the current state of the team.

Dunn isnt going to be traded, its been said by him and the Nats.

[GreatScott82]

Dunn isnt going to be traded, its been said by him and the Nats.

I did see that. . things can change near the deadline though. We've seen it before.

[witesoxfan]

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince Fielder. But if we aqcuire him, it would likely be for a package of Hudson, Flowers and Viciedo not to mention his large contract for 2011. If we are paying Prince Fielder 11 million next year, that pretty much all but ends the possibility of bringing back Konerko and AJ. Who will replace AJ at catcher next year if we deal Flowers for Fielder? I wonder if KW can be swift and have Milwaukee pay about 6 million of his remaining salary? If he does that- we can likely re-sign AJ. . .

 

As far as Adam Dunn goes. Although he is a Type free agent, he would likely cost less than Fielder in regards to prospects. And Im sure Washington would rather have guys they can immediately insert into their lineup for next year rather than wait for the draft. .

 

Why would Dunn cost less? He's essentially the same exact player as Fielder, apparently doesn't want to be traded, the Nats don't want to trade him, the Nats want to sign him to an extension, and he's a Type A free agent. He's probably going to cost the exact same as Fielder.

[Chicago White Sox]

Why would Dunn cost less? He's essentially the same exact player as Fielder, apparently doesn't want to be traded, the Nats don't want to trade him, the Nats want to sign him to an extension, and he's a Type A free agent. He's probably going to cost the exact same as Fielder.

I disagree. I think Fielder is going to cost a lot more. He's the bigger name and has been a huge part of that franchise for years now. Trading Fielder when he has a year left on his contract would really piss off Brewers fans and could have a negative impact on ticket sales. Honestly, I think Melvin holds on to Fielder at least until the offseason unless he is absolutely blown away.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Why would Dunn cost less? He's essentially the same exact player as Fielder, apparently doesn't want to be traded, the Nats don't want to trade him, the Nats want to sign him to an extension, and he's a Type A free agent. He's probably going to cost the exact same as Fielder.

Nobody expected Dunn to have to settle for a s***ty 2-year deal with the Nats last time he was a FA. I thought he'd get 4 years and big money easy, but apparently other teams didn't think he was worth that.

 

Adam Dunn is a major K threat who has always had issues following him around like the infamous "Adam Dunn doesn't like baseball" saga and the "Adam Dunn doesn't try" stuff. Beyond that, Prince is elite, Adam is not. Adam is a guy with some of the biggest raw power in baseball and is LH, and he walks a ton, but he's not the hitter Prince is. He's not the name Prince is, either.

 

Personally, I don't buy the Nats won't trade Dunn stuff either. Yes they'd probably like to build around some guys, but I'm sure Mr. Rizzo understands that youth is still the key, and I'm sure he also understands that if the Nats continue assembling a strong young core they'll be able to attract some very good veteran baseball players in the future.

 

*Edit: That said, we may have to still bowl the Nats over. But no way does he cost what Prince does IMO.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I disagree. I think Fielder is going to cost a lot more. He's the bigger name and has been a huge part of that franchise for years now. Trading Fielder when he has a year left on his contract would really piss off Brewers fans and could have a negative impact on ticket sales. Honestly, I think Melvin holds on to Fielder at least until the offseason unless he is absolutely blown away.

Agree, and I wouldn't want to trade for Prince anyway. Borass is going to make sure that no matter what the Yankees, Red Sox (especially), Angels, Dodgers (ownership issues but Manny's off the books soon), Mets, etc. all get involved. No way we'd ever get a negotiation window. And beyond that, Borass' word isn't worth s***, because at least s*** makes for good fertilizer. We'd end up getting some sort of promise or some sort of condition that no matter whether we met it or not, Borass would still try to go behind our backs and get the bigger market teams to beat us out. It wouldn't even be worth it.

 

Now even if Dunn did cost a ton though, and even though he is a future FA, I'd still rather spend on him because at least he's not a Borass client and he does seem like a loyal guy. The biggest concern with Dunn IMO is how do we sign the guy to an extension if he demands to play the field all season? Because that's not something I'd be up for personally.

[Balta1701]

Agree, and I wouldn't want to trade for Prince anyway. Borass is going to make sure that no matter what the Yankees, Red Sox (especially), Angels, Dodgers (ownership issues but Manny's off the books soon), Mets, etc. all get involved. No way we'd ever get a negotiation window.

If you offered him straight up 8/$200+, you might get him to sign without much worry.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If you offered him straight up 8/$200+, you might get him to sign without much worry.

Ha, yeah I'll agree with that. Jerry better start walking down Michigan Avenue again.

[witesoxfan]

Nobody expected Dunn to have to settle for a s***ty 2-year deal with the Nats last time he was a FA. I thought he'd get 4 years and big money easy, but apparently other teams didn't think he was worth that.

 

Adam Dunn is a major K threat who has always had issues following him around like the infamous "Adam Dunn doesn't like baseball" saga and the "Adam Dunn doesn't try" stuff. Beyond that, Prince is elite, Adam is not. Adam is a guy with some of the biggest raw power in baseball and is LH, and he walks a ton, but he's not the hitter Prince is. He's not the name Prince is, either.

 

.281/ .382/.540/.922 - Fielder

.251/.383/.522/.905 - Dunn

 

Personally, I'd argue that Fielder has been and has the ability TO BE elite, but Dunn is the more consistent performer. Dunn's put up an OPS of .900 (if you give him .002 points in 2008) in 4 straight seasons, and he's had a .927+ OPS in 5 of the past 7 years. Fielder, on the other hand, has put up .831, 1.013, .879, 1.014, and .842 (which doesn't include his homer today).

 

It's more arguing just for the sake of argument, as I'd give up my left nut for either one of them.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

.281/ .382/.540/.922 - Fielder

.251/.383/.522/.905 - Dunn

 

Personally, I'd argue that Fielder has been and has the ability TO BE elite, but Dunn is the more consistent performer. Dunn's put up an OPS of .900 (if you give him .002 points in 2008) in 4 straight seasons, and he's had a .927+ OPS in 5 of the past 7 years. Fielder, on the other hand, has put up .831, 1.013, .879, 1.014, and .842 (which doesn't include his homer today).

 

It's more arguing just for the sake of argument, as I'd give up my left nut for either one of them.

 

Any particular reason you're completely ignoring the fact one guy is almost 5 years younger than the other? That would seem like a pretty big deal to me.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Jordan4life

[WCSox]

Any particular reason you're completely ignoring the fact one guy is almost 5 years younger than the other? That would seem like a pretty big deal to me.

 

It's also a big deal that the younger guy is borderline-obese and is unlikely to be an elite hitter when he's Dunn's age.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's also a big deal that the younger guy is borderline-obese and is unlikely to be an elite hitter when he's Dunn's age.

 

Sure didn't stop the Phillies from locking up G.Q. model Ryan Howard for the next 50 years and 347437474 billion dollars.

[WCSox]

Sure didn't stop the Phillies from locking up G.Q. model Ryan Howard for the next 50 years and 347437474 billion dollars.

 

Howard lost about 20 lbs, after going vegetarian and working with a personal trainer a couple of years ago. He's actually in pretty decent shape now. And he did this specifically to avoid ending up like Prince Fielder's dad.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Howard lost about 20 lbs, after going vegetarian and working with a personal trainer a couple of years ago. He's actually in pretty decent shape now. And he did this specifically to avoid ending up like Prince Fielder's dad.

 

I see what you're saying. But Prince is going to get his. And if the Brewers trade him, they'll get an insane package. The potential weight issues won't mean much.

[VAfan]

I'm coming around to the view that the best way to improve the Sox hitting is for all the guys under career norms to get back up to them. Starting with Carlos Quentin. If Quentin can get back his 2008 confidence, he's a better addition than anyone that's been debated here.

 

AJ is also moving up.

Pierre can hit better.

Beckham is going to find his stroke at some point this year I believe.

Ramirez always improves as the year goes on.

 

I don't have much hope for Kotsay/Jones, but we now have Viciedo as an option at DH, 3B, and 1B (with Konerko resting at DH).

 

And Teahan, while bad, only has to be better than Kotsay to be an improvement as a utility guy.

 

So, I doubt we do anything for awhile.

[WCSox]

I see what you're saying. But Prince is going to get his. And if the Brewers trade him, they'll get an insane package. The potential weight issues won't mean much.

 

What's Fielder, 26 now? I agree that his next contract will be pretty nice. He still has a number of elite years left in him.

 

[caulfield12]

VA FAN, what, other than hope, from having watched Beckham all season, is your cause for optimism?

 

I think this might be a case like with Rios in 2009 where they just have to hit the "reset" button...leaving him much longer on the roster with us 2 1/2 games back (having one of the most abysmal, botton 3-5 OPS numbers in all of MLB, along with Pierre) is not doing the Sox or him much good.

 

It's going to be a Brian Anderson 2006 situation soon where they have no choice but to put a veteran over there.

Edited June 24, 2010 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

It's going to be a Brian Anderson 2006 situation soon where they have no choice but to put a veteran over there.

Anderson was actually showing signs of slowly improving, Beckham is getting worse, and Anderson at the time was at least stellar with the glove.

[Vance Law]

AJ is also moving up.

Pierre can hit better.

Beckham is going to find his stroke at some point this year I believe.

Ramirez always improves as the year goes on.

 

I don't have much hope for Kotsay/Jones, but we now have Viciedo as an option at DH, 3B, and 1B.

 

And Teahan, while bad, has been a better hitter for the Sox this year than all of the above other than Jones.

 

fixed

 

[hi8is]

Get me Cliff Lee and Prince Fielder or give me death!

 

HAH!

[justBLAZE]

Get me Cliff Lee and Prince Fielder or give me death!

 

HAH!

 

It was nice 'kinda' knowing you.