If we do get back in this. . .

[Balta1701]

Just go back and watch some of those Royals games. Or ask Caulfield, he was watching them. The guy turns easy plays into thrilling adventures, and to put a guy like that out there, you need a bat a hell of a lot better than one with a career .268/.331/.417 line. I thought we had standards for f***s sake.

If you can be the one to convince Carlos Quentin to start putting up a line better than that, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

[chw42]

Switch Beckham with Ramirez and you have yourself a hell of a lineup. Seriously, if we get Dunn we go from Division contender to W.S. contender! He's the perfect fit!!

 

Alexei in the two spot makes me sick. I know we don't have any good OBP guys, but damn, no. I'd rather see Vizquel there.

[BigSqwert]

If you can be the one to convince Carlos Quentin to start putting up a line better than that, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

 

Last 7 Days: .368/.400/.632/1.032

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If you can be the one to convince Carlos Quentin to start putting up a line better than that, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

Yeah Carlos needs to get better, but the reason you play Carlos over Teahen in the OF is the same reason you play Beckham over Teahen at 2B. One has huge upside with the bat and is a far superior defender to boot, and the other is Mark Teahen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Last 7 Days: .368/.400/.632/1.032

Also the first week is the only thing holding down his June numbers, which are steadily climbing.

[Balta1701]

Also the first week is the only thing holding down his June numbers, which are steadily climbing.

June 8-13 he went 3/22 (.136 average).

[witesoxfan]

I will say that if and when Williams is to acquire a player, who will likely come with a high salary, I'd look for him to include one of Linebrink or Teahen in the deal to help offset some salary. Obviously this wouldn't happen in the case of LaRoche, who is cheap and only under control for 1 season, but with either Dunn or especially Berkman, dealing away a contract or two to offset some of the financial burden will help matters greatly. And, in the case of the Astros, McLane is reportedly willing to include money to help facilitate a trade of Oswalt, so I see no reason he wouldn't do the same thing with Berkman. It might be reasonable to think that he'd rather get something back for $5 million over the next two seasons than nothing at all.

 

If you can package together, say, Linebrink, Danks2, and Morel for Berkman, you immediately add Berkman's bat to your lineup and can bring a legitimate long man up in the form of Carlos Torres.

 

Just a thought.

[ThunderBolt]

If you can package together, say, Linebrink, Danks2, and Morel for Berkman, you immediately add Berkman's bat to your lineup and can bring a legitimate long man up in the form of Carlos Torres.

Just a thought.

Okay, Ed Wade's dumb but he's not that dumb. The Astros get maybe one good player in that deal.

[witesoxfan]

Okay, Ed Wade's dumb but he's not that dumb. The Astros get maybe one good player in that deal.

 

Yeah, it was just something off the top of my head. I'm just looking at it and thinking that the Sox either don't want or can't trade Flowers, Hudson, or Viciedo. If that's the case, it doesn't leave a hell of a lot in regards to value throughout the system.

[WCSox]

1. You said Teahen wouldn't be a UT player because he's paid like a starter. I refuted that by asking why, if that's the case, do we have a LR who is paid like an elite setup man? Just because a player's salary keeps him on the 25-man roster doesn't mean he's going to occupy a major role.

 

Apparently you didn't understand me the first time, so I'll try again: Teahen can do something reasonably well (get on base) and there is a dire lack of that skill set on the current roster. Linebrink has had NO value whatsoever on this team for the past year and a half. They're stuck with him, and hide him in the mop-up role to limit the damage that he does to this team. Linebrink's contract also means that he's unmovable, so the best that you can hope for is that he gets his act together at some point.

 

2. For f***s sake WC, hitting .255/.340/.387 and playing some of the worst defense you'll ever see played by a regular in the Major Leagues is NOT a good thing and is NOT indicative of a starting baseball player. Your brilliant solution is to take that .255/.340/.387 line and send it over to 1B/DH/LF/RF where it ***SUCKS EVEN HARDER*** and then attempt to justify it with his contract, but then turn around and make it sound like he earned it. WTF are you even talking about?

 

A .340 OBP is decent and, sadly, significantly above-average on this roster.

 

Your excessive use of profanity also really helps to bolster your argument.

 

3. Dude, CQ isn't some gold glover out there in RF but if you really think Teahen is comparable to CQ in the OF you're nuts. How do I know this? By watching Teahen play out there when he was with the Royals. The guy plays the OF like dudes are hitting whiffle balls out there. He looks like a cat chasing string. He's an uncoordinated hack who would make people long for the days of Rob Mackowiak

 

4. Nix was an error machine but at least he had hands! At least he could get the damn ball before he threw it away! Teahen is like an All-Star defensive player in a parallel universe somewhere where everyone who sucks at something is great at it over there. In that world I must be great at getting through to people since apparently I suck so hard at it here.

 

Your relentless trashing of Teahen's defense and simultaneous propping up of Nix The Butcher's shows excessive hyperbole and bias on your part. I agree that Teahen shouldn't be playing 3B but, at the very least, his OF UZR numbers don't corroborate your off-the-wall analysis.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Teahen is a good player. I'm arguing that he's "good enough" to play on this roster, and will be "good enough" to round out a 2011 team that will have to replace PK, AJ, Jenks, and Putz with a diminished payroll. I'm sorry that you have some personal vendetta against Teahen, but he's practically a lock to be in the starting lineup next year. Deal with it.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Apparently you didn't understand me the first time, so I'll try again: Teahen can do something reasonably well (get on base) and there is a dire lack of that skill set on the current roster. Linebrink has had NO value whatsoever on this team for the past year and a half. They're stuck with him, and hide him in the mop-up role to limit the damage that he does to this team. Linebrink's contract also means that he's unmovable, so the best that you can hope for is that he gets his act together at some point.

 

I don't understand you because you don't make any sense.

 

Your problem is you are singling out one aspect of Teahen's game, saying he's good at it, and then not doing the same for anyone else. You did that in other posts about Nix and Wise. Well Nix has problems throwing the ball, but in terms of range, hands, anticipation/reaction, etc. he's a much better fielder than Teahen is. There's no question about that. Wise can play the OF just fine and he adds value as a PR off the bench, and Wise is unquestionably a much better defender at his positions than Teahen is at anything defensively. But Wise and Nix get no props from you even though they were in the Majors for at least *some* reason? That's unfair, and you sound stupid for saying that. Every player does at least one thing well to get to the Major Leagues.

 

Linebrink is the same way. Linebrink has some very good stuff and when he's on he can be a legit setup man in the AL. But according to you he's not good anything/does nothing well. But see, Linebink, in the end, is a s***ty pitcher who is overpaid and only sticks around because of his contract. Teahen, in the end, is also a s***ty player who is overpaid and will only stick around because of his contract. See how this works? Teahen may have some OBP skills, and I've said before that he does have some value in a PH/UT role, but the fact is he is terrible at 3B, he is terrible at 2B, he is terrible in the OF, he doesn't have the bat for 1B, and he doesn't have the bat for DH either. He's not a starting player. He's a bench player that the Sox made a mistake in acquiring and extending. That's it.

 

A .340 OBP is decent and, sadly, significantly above-average on this roster.

 

What's your f***ing point already? Jesus Christ dude, I can tell you Gordon Beckham isn't supposed to hit .200 all year because that's not good for the offense, but the reason he is playing is because he's a better f***ing baseball player than anything we have at the position. You can't compare a s***ty starting baseball player to a bunch of good baseball players and say the s***ty one is better simply because right now he's hitting a bit better. Good lord. I mean, come on here. The board is all talking about Berkman and I think he's hitting like .230 or something. Maybe the Astros would trade him to us straight up for Omar Vizquel because right now Omar is hitting better. This is retarded. Mark Teahen isn't a good enough offensive player to make up for the s***ty defense he'd play at any given position, and his bat alone isn't good enough as a DH. And here you are f***ing arguing this after everyone who has been watching the ballclub OPENLY ACKNOWLEDGES that Omar Vizquel - by simply replacing Teahen - is a huge reason for our recent success.

 

Your relentless trashing of Teahen's defense and simultaneous propping up of Nix The Butcher's shows excessive hyperbole and bias on your part. I agree that Teahen shouldn't be playing 3B but, at the very least, his OF UZR numbers don't corroborate your off-the-wall analysis.

 

He's that bad! Nix is a better defender than Teahen, that's how bad Teahen is. Nix can physically do things Teahen cannot. Teahen sometimes can't even stop the damn ball from going between his legs. He's really, really, really awful. And as for Teahen's OF play, why don't you go on over to the Royals board and tell them about Teahen's defense in the OF. See what they have to say about him.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Teahen is a good player. I'm arguing that he's "good enough" to play on this roster, and will be "good enough" to round out a 2011 team that will have to replace PK, AJ, Jenks, and Putz with a diminished payroll. I'm sorry that you have some personal vendetta against Teahen, but he's practically a lock to be in the starting lineup next year. Deal with it.

 

Teahen is good enough to be a UT guy and PH. He is not good enough to play everyday at the MLB level for a contending team. Carlos Quentin and Gordon Beckham are not playing because they're .200-.220 hitters, they are playing because they are potentially great hitters who are going bad right now. You don't bench either one of those guys to play a no-ceiling hack just because his OBP is higher. You seem to miss the point of all of this.

 

And dude, I'm not buying for a second that Teahen is a lock to be a starting position player for us in 2011 - especially not from the same person who just said earlier that Kenny envisions Teahen as the bridge to our next generation of outfielders. That was literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board, no offense.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[WCSox]

I don't understand you because you don't make any sense.

 

Apparently your excessive anger is impairing your ability to think clearly.

 

Your problem is you are singling out one aspect of Teahen's game, saying he's good at it, and then not doing the same for anyone else. You did that in other posts about Nix and Wise.

 

Wise was good defensively, but had no business hitting leadoff. I could've tolerated him as a one-year #9, though. Nix did absolutely nothing to justify his spot on the roster. He can't get on base regularly and he can't field.

 

Well Nix has problems throwing the ball, but in terms of range, hands, anticipation/reaction, etc. he's a much better fielder than Teahen is. There's no question about that.

 

Yes, because throwing the ball into the visitor's dugout and extending a single into a double is MUCH more favorable than Teahen's bad hands. Brilliant analysis!

 

Linebrink is the same way. Linebrink has some very good stuff and when he's on

 

He's never "on" and he's absolutely sucked for the past year and a half. Again, he does NOTHING for this team. Teahen at least gets on base. Do you understand why this is a terrible comparison now?

 

Jesus Christ dude, I can tell you Gordon Beckham isn't supposed to hit .200 all year because that's not good for the offense, but the reason he is playing is because he's a better f***ing baseball player than anything we have at the position.

 

Wrong. Vizquel would be much better at 2B. Hell, Nix and Lillibridge might even be better options. Beckham is a liability in the lineup and he needs to work with a different hitting instructor in the minors.

 

You can't compare a s***ty starting baseball player to a bunch of good baseball players and say the s***ty one is better simply because right now he's hitting a bit better.

 

Jesus Christ, dude, Jones and Teahen are THIRD and FOURTH, respectively, on this team in OPS. Think about that for a minute. You're looking at Teahen's numbers and ability in a bubble, and completely disregarding the lack of offensive talent around him right now. Getting rid of your fourth-best hitter because hitters 5-9 aren't as "good" as you were lead to believe is a retarded way to run a baseball team.

 

And here you are f***ing arguing this after everyone who has been watching the ballclub OPENLY ACKNOWLEDGES that Omar Vizquel - by simply replacing Teahen - is a huge reason for our recent success.

 

Uh, yeah, everyone's arguing just that, rather than the fact that the Sox have been beating up on horrible NL teams. Or that Peavy, Floyd, and Jenks have been pitching a lot better over that time. Please stop with the straw-grasping.

 

And dude, I'm not buying for a second that Teahen is a lock to be a starting position player for us in 2011 - especially not from the same person who just said earlier that Kenny envisions Teahen as the bridge to our next generation of outfielders. That was literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board, no offense.

 

Coming from somebody like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[Balta1701]

Ok, I'm not clearing out yet, but I'm going to have to put a little warning/reminder here about the personal attack policy before the next response appears.

[greg775]

But Wise and Nix get no props from you even though they were in the Majors for at least *some* reason? That's unfair, and you sound stupid for saying that. Every player does at least one thing well to get to the Major Leagues.

 

Now if you want to talk Wise, I'll talk Wise. I loved that guy.

 

 

As far as Teahen, I have to back Kenny on this one. You can roll out different stats, but just watching Teahen, he is one of the worst third basemen in modern history. He is horrific at third. And he's not a good outfielder by any means. Royals fans were thrilled he left town.

But why argue. This is one of these eye test arguments. Kenny obviously is sick of the thought of seeing Teahen play another game here, just like many of you couldn't stand the thought of Wise being on the team.

I think many of us would be fine if Teahen was a utility guy the next 10 years for us. Play once a week max.

 

WC Sox has presented some good stats how Teahen was actually OK compared to other guys' performances. But in the final analysis many just puke at the thought of Teahen.

Edited June 23, 2010 by greg775

[SoxAce]

WC Sox has presented some good stats how Teahen was actually OK compared to other guys' performances

 

He has been money today with his post. Much better than yesterday.

[Thad Bosley]

Now if you want to talk Wise, I'll talk Wise. I loved that guy.

 

 

As far as Teahen, I have to back Kenny on this one. You can roll out different stats, but just watching Teahen, he is one of the worst third basemen in modern history. He is horrific at third. And he's not a good outfielder by any means. Royals fans were thrilled he left town.

But why argue. This is one of these eye test arguments. Kenny obviously is sick of the thought of seeing Teahen play another game here, just like many of you couldn't stand the thought of Wise being on the team.

I think many of us would be fine if Teahen was a utility guy the next 10 years for us. Play once a week max.

 

WC Sox has presented some good stats how Teahen was actually OK compared to other guys' performances. But in the final analysis many just puke at the thought of Teahen.

Nope, not me. Not only do I think he's not even remotely close to being a serviceable starting player for a Major League team, but I'm not so sure I'm sold on this super-sub idea, either. My reason for saying so is that there isn't anything he does that is particularly good, so what value does he provide even as a bench player? At least with guys like, say, Vizquel or Wise, and even Nix, they do bring something to the table that you can label as "good". Vizquel and Wise are "good" defensively. Nix is a "good" second baseman. Andruw Jones has "good" power. So on and so forth. You can't say that about any part of Teahen's game. Just because you can stick him out on the field at multiple positions doesn't make him "good" and/or a useful bench player. I can think of many other players whom I'd choose to comprise my bench before him. Just my opinion, of course, but no sale for me when it comes to Mark Teahen.

[WCSox]

As far as Teahen, I have to back Kenny on this one. You can roll out different stats, but just watching Teahen, he is one of the worst third basemen in modern history. He is horrific at third. And he's not a good outfielder by any means. Royals fans were thrilled he left town.

But why argue. This is one of these eye test arguments. Kenny obviously is sick of the thought of seeing Teahen play another game here, just like many of you couldn't stand the thought of Wise being on the team.

I think many of us would be fine if Teahen was a utility guy the next 10 years for us. Play once a week max.

 

WC Sox has presented some good stats how Teahen was actually OK compared to other guys' performances. But in the final analysis many just puke at the thought of Teahen.

 

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: I agree that the Sox need to find a better defensive option at 3B.

 

[RockRaines]

So beyond the awful drivel being posted by KHP and WC back and forth, who are we going to add?

 

Well, KW has been after AGON, Berkman and Fielder in the past. I would say Mil and Hou are the most likely sellers. Dunn isnt going to be traded so it leaves us with those two options. Hudson is most likely gone for anyway as well as at least one other real solid prospect. With the signing of Sale, the org probably thinks it can get away with mortgaging a future arm. My guess is that KW is speaking with Milwaukee about fatFielder.

Edited June 23, 2010 by RockRaines

[greg775]

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: I agree that the Sox need to find a better defensive option at 3B.

 

Judging from the nice DP he turned the other day, I'd take Viciedo right now. And give Omar starts at third two days a week and starts at second for hitless Beckham 2 days at second. Viciedo needs to play 5 of every seven games or it's worthless ruining his progress up here.

Edited June 23, 2010 by greg775

[WCSox]

So beyond the awful dribble being posted by KHP and WC back and forth, who are we going to add?

 

Well, KW has been after AGON, Berkman and Fielder in the past. I would say Mil and Hou are the most likely sellers. Dunn isnt going to be traded so it leaves us with those two options. Hudson is most likely gone for anyway as well as at least one other real solid prospect. With the signing of Sale, the org probably thinks it can get away with mortgaging a future arm. My guess is that KW is speaking with Milwaukee about fatFielder.

 

Fielder will most likely cost a top prospect, and Kenny is unlikely to part with Hudson or Flowers. Not sure that I'd even want Berkman, either. LaRoche might be the most realistic option, though he's hardly an impact player.

 

Viciedo needs to play 5 of every seven games or it's worthless ruining his progress up here.

 

Agreed.

 

[RockRaines]

Fielder will most likely cost a top prospect, and Kenny is unlikely to part with Hudson or Flowers. Not sure that I'd even want Berkman, either. LaRoche might be the most realistic option, though he's hardly an impact player.

 

 

 

Agreed.

Kenny is going to part with at least Hudson if you want an impact player. There is no other alternative unless you consider dealing Danks or Floyd. Huddy will go as well prob one or Danks2, Morel, or Flowers. They will be gone.

[Balta1701]

Kenny is going to part with at least Hudson if you want an impact player. There is no other alternative unless you consider dealing Danks or Floyd. Huddy will go as well prob one or Danks2, Morel, or Flowers. They will be gone.

And if we're not able to spend much money next year...dealing Hudson right now is crazy, because he gives you the ability to start next year with a rotation equal or better to this one's for basically the same money. Otherwise, you have to replace Garcia, who has pitched like a $5 million/year pitcher so far this year.

[witesoxfan]

And if we're not able to spend much money next year...dealing Hudson right now is crazy, because he gives you the ability to start next year with a rotation equal or better to this one's for basically the same money. Otherwise, you have to replace Garcia, who has pitched like a $5 million/year pitcher so far this year.

 

The Sox have gotten ridiculously lucky with how well Garcia has pitched this year.

[WCSox]

The Sox have gotten ridiculously lucky with how well Garcia has pitched this year.

 

"Coop fixed him!"

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Wise was good defensively, but had no business hitting leadoff. I could've tolerated him as a one-year #9, though. Nix did absolutely nothing to justify his spot on the roster. He can't get on base regularly and he can't field.

 

Okay, so now you've just admitted Wise was good at something when you said he wasn't good at anything earlier. -1 for you.

 

You could have tolerated Teahen as a #9 hitter.... WHERE?!?! THat's the f***ing point, where?! Where are you willing to sacrifice that much defense for that little offensive payoff?

 

Yes, because throwing the ball into the visitor's dugout and extending a single into a double is MUCH more favorable than Teahen's bad hands. Brilliant analysis!

 

I'd take Nix over Teahen at 3B and anywhere else defensively, as bad as Nix would be, because over the long haul Nix will make more plays than Teahen will. That's because Teahen takes defense to a whole new low. Nix simply has the better skillset for an IF. I don't know how you could dispute that since Nix is a MIF and Teahen is a corner IF, and those players get put in those spots for a reason.

 

He's never "on" and he's absolutely sucked for the past year and a half. Again, he does NOTHING for this team. Teahen at least gets on base. Do you understand why this is a terrible comparison now?

 

Go look at his first/second half splits, he is on sometimes. It's just early in the year and then he implodes. So, for a little while early on he actually does do something for the team.

 

For the love of god, Teahen's .340 OBP does not negate his s***ty power production, s***ty batting average, and most importantly his atrocious defense. Because of this he does not belong on the field regularly. WTF is wrong with you?

 

And for the zillionth time, Linebrink and Teahen are in the exact same boat. Both would be DFA candidates if not for the money owed to them.

 

Wrong. Vizquel would be much better at 2B. Hell, Nix and Lillibridge might even be better options. Beckham is a liability in the lineup and he needs to work with a different hitting instructor in the minors.

 

Please go away right now. Seriously. Beckham is a big part of the future of this organization and you don't take him out of the lineup in favor of those other players especially when he's coming into his own as a second baseman at the MLB level defensively and becoming a better partner of Alexei. Your hitting instructor comment is another example of your lack of understanding. What is Walker telling him to do that's so wrong, since you know so much? How come Beckham hit well under Walker last year. Give me a f***ing break please, talking about how he needs to work with another hitting instructor in the minors. WHO?! You don't even know what their f***ing names are. You'd have to go online and look it up. You have no f***ing clue about who we have helping our hitters in the minors and how they'd help Gordon, so please quit.

 

Jesus Christ, dude, Jones and Teahen are THIRD and FOURTH, respectively, on this team in OPS. Think about that for a minute. You're looking at Teahen's numbers and ability in a bubble, and completely disregarding the lack of offensive talent around him right now. Getting rid of your fourth-best hitter because hitters 5-9 aren't as "good" as you were lead to believe is a retarded way to run a baseball team.

 

No, I'm looking at Teahen and seeing that he simply isn't that f***ing talented. There are several players on this club who are a ton better than Teahen will ever be, but they're not where they should be offensively. Go check the f***ing June numbers for some of these guys first. Jones has fallen off the cliff and others have been climbing. Jones and Teahen are NOT the 4th and 5th best hitters on this ballclub, despite what the numbers may say today on June 23rd. They are f***ing far from it. That was the point of my Berkman comment in that last post, that just because he's not hitting right now doesn't mean he's not a good hitter.

 

Teahen's ceiling is not very high, okay? His floor? Same thing. That's why you don't settle for a player like that. You build a team trying to maximize the value of every position, and Teahen is s*** as a regular, no matter where he goes. At least a guy like Carlos can be very, very good if he turns it around.

 

Uh, yeah, everyone's arguing just that, rather than the fact that the Sox have been beating up on horrible NL teams. Or that Peavy, Floyd, and Jenks have been pitching a lot better over that time. Please stop with the straw-grasping.

 

You seriously need to develop your reading comprehension skills WC. When did I say just that? Go back and re-read. I said Omar "is a huge reason for our recent success." Read that again please. I never said he was the only reason, just one of them, and a big one.

 

Coming from somebody like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

I'm not surprised.