If we do get back in this. . .

[harfman77]

Have you seen Alonso's numbers this year? He's got a lower OPS than Jordan Danks does in the International League? He's far from a sure thing and right now it's doubtful he'll be ready at the start of 2011.

 

The only way you trade Hudson is if you are getting a proven star in return.

 

If our corner outfielders are Juan Pierre and Mark Teahen next year then we are in real bad shape.

 

There is a good chance Vizquel retires after this season, so I wouldn't factor him in to your 2011 plans just yet.

 

I agree, hopefully Viciendo or even better yet Morel is ready to take over 3B full time next year, but I think the combination of the three I mentioned will get you through the rest of the season. The priority in the off-season becomes signing a RF and Teahen becomes UTL backing up CI/2B/RF/LF.

[Vance Law]

Watching the Sox play in National Park(how the ball just seemed to hang up in the outfield) it's incredible to think Dunn hit 38 homers last year. And beyond comprehension on what he'd hit at US Cellular.

 

He'd hit just about the same number. He played in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball in Cincinnati facing weak National League pitching and hit only as many as 8 more homers than that. You wouldn't expect him to come over to the American League and become a better hitter, as virtually no players do.

 

[iamshack]

I would love Kemp and would trade Floyd for him in an instant. An outfield of Kemp Rios and Q would be one of the best in the league. Berkman hasnt hit for 2 years, maybe he is done.

I know Colletti is sort of down on Kemp and his baserunning and attitude, but if they were going to move him, they would hold a leaguewide auction and probably get one hell of an offer.

 

In my mind, it would take not only Floyd, but probably a Viciedo and a guy like Mitchell to get it done.

 

Kemp is a burgeoning superstar player.

 

I'm just pretty happy that Rios is putting up numbers very similar to Kemp's awesome season from a year ago...

[pktmotion]

He'd hit just about the same number. He played in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball in Cincinnati facing weak National League pitching and hit only as many as 8 more homers than that. You wouldn't expect him to come over to the American League and become a better hitter, as virtually no players do.

 

I think you're discounting this. National league pitching is certainly not weak. And on his translation as an AL hitter last year he had an average OPS of .905 against BAL, BOS, NYY, TB, TOR. An OPS of 1.472 against the Yankees, a hitters park like ours. IMO, Dunn would work out just fine in the AL.

 

 

*edit I re-read your post and saw that you weren't saying Dunn would do worse in the AL just wouldn't become a better hitter. Apologies.

Edited June 21, 2010 by pktmotion

[chw42]

LaRoche strikes out a lil too much... and that's against NL pitching.

 

I'll take the strike outs if he can hit for good power.

 

Besides, Dunn strikes out even more and he's not projected to be that much better of a hitter than LaRoche this year.

Edited June 21, 2010 by chw42

[WCSox]

I'll take the strike outs if he can hit for good power.

 

Besides, Dunn strikes out even more and he's not projected to be that much better of a hitter than LaRoche this year.

 

For a guy who strikes out as much as LaRoche, a .347 OBP isn't that bad. If he could be had for relatively cheap, he'd be a nice temporary left-handed bat, a massive upgrade at DH, and would be able to spell PK at 1B.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Adam LaRoche has been known to be a way better 2nd-half player throughout his career. He has had a better than normal 1st half, but that is a good sign if we tried to grab him.

[BearSox]

I really don't see the point in either Dunn or LaRoche. They are both decent stop gaps, but neither puts our offense over the hump. If we can get 1 of them without giving up any of our top guys, fine, sign me up. But the only way such a move makes sense is if we make other moves as well, such as upgrading one of the corner OF spots, and 3B and 2B.

 

From what I've seen, I like Viciedo's swing and the fact he showed some good oppo pop (hit the ball hard 3 times, all to the right of 2B). However, until he learns some plate discipline, and I doubt he's gonna learn it this instant, he won't be what the doctor ordered for 3B. And we already established that Teahen isn't the answer either.

 

Give Beckham 2 more weeks, and go from there. If he can hit the ball half as well as he did last year, he can stick at 2B. And while Quentin is only hitting .210~, he is at least producing runs, so I think we can stick it out with him in the OF for a while longer. If he can get up to .250, with his eye and power, we'd be in good shape.

 

I know the royals are asking a lot for him right now, but I would not be opposed to try and swing a deal for DeJesus. Massive upgrade over Pierre (keep Pierre on the bench as a situational player, a role he thrived in when he was in LA). Maybe we could also try and get Alex Gordon in the deal as well. Gordon would be a huge question mark at 3B, but the potential would be worth the risk. If our pitching staff keeps improving as a whole, I'd be excited if we could some how pull of a mid-season over-haul that turned our lineup into:

 

1. DeJesus, LF

2. Ramirez, SS

3. Rios, CF

4. Konerko, 1B

5. Dunn/LaRoche, DH

6. Quentin, RF

7. Pierzynski, C

8. Gordon, 3B

9. Beckham, 2B

 

Unlikely scenario, but its fun to play arm chair GM

[witesoxfan]

I think you're discounting this. National league pitching is certainly not weak. And on his translation as an AL hitter last year he had an average OPS of .905 against BAL, BOS, NYY, TB, TOR. An OPS of 1.472 against the Yankees, a hitters park like ours. IMO, Dunn would work out just fine in the AL.

 

 

*edit I re-read your post and saw that you weren't saying Dunn would do worse in the AL just wouldn't become a better hitter. Apologies.

 

I would imagine that he played something like 18 games against those 5 teams. You can't use 18 games as a justification that a player is going to be good against the AL if he were to make the transition.

[WCSox]

I really don't see the point in either Dunn or LaRoche. They are both decent stop gaps, but neither puts our offense over the hump. If we can get 1 of them without giving up any of our top guys, fine, sign me up. But the only way such a move makes sense is if we make other moves as well, such as upgrading one of the corner OF spots, and 3B and 2B.

 

From what I've seen, I like Viciedo's swing and the fact he showed some good oppo pop (hit the ball hard 3 times, all to the right of 2B). However, until he learns some plate discipline, and I doubt he's gonna learn it this instant, he won't be what the doctor ordered for 3B. And we already established that Teahen isn't the answer either.

 

Give Beckham 2 more weeks, and go from there. If he can hit the ball half as well as he did last year, he can stick at 2B. And while Quentin is only hitting .210~, he is at least producing runs, so I think we can stick it out with him in the OF for a while longer. If he can get up to .250, with his eye and power, we'd be in good shape.

 

I know the royals are asking a lot for him right now, but I would not be opposed to try and swing a deal for DeJesus. Massive upgrade over Pierre (keep Pierre on the bench as a situational player, a role he thrived in when he was in LA). Maybe we could also try and get Alex Gordon in the deal as well. Gordon would be a huge question mark at 3B, but the potential would be worth the risk. If our pitching staff keeps improving as a whole, I'd be excited if we could some how pull of a mid-season over-haul that turned our lineup into:

 

1. DeJesus, LF

2. Ramirez, SS

3. Rios, CF

4. Konerko, 1B

5. Dunn/LaRoche, DH

6. Quentin, RF

7. Pierzynski, C

8. Gordon, 3B

9. Beckham, 2B

 

Unlikely scenario, but its fun to play arm chair GM

 

Yeah, unfortunately, there's no way that Kenny's going to go out and get three solid players like that.

 

That said, I like DeJesus as well.

 

[caulfield12]

Adding DeJesus is not going to come cheaply. How much better is he really going to be than Pierre? I think we can expect that Pierre will be pretty decent....considering how poorly he started.

 

And that's where you have that calculus....if Dunn/LaRoche/Scott, etc., aren't going to put us over the top, then DeJesus certainly isn't going to do the trick either.

 

And they're going to ask for Flowers/Hudson or something like that, certainly not justifiable in a season where we've been pretty bad except for this recent 10-1 stretch against inferior competition.

 

Fielder would be a typical KW move, but budgetarily the numbers just don't make any sense going forward. I think this is one of those seasons you have to stick with what you have and hope that Quentin/Beckham can get going and Viciedo can hold his own, with Vizquel spelling him defensively.

 

 

[chw42]

Adding DeJesus is not going to come cheaply. How much better is he really going to be than Pierre? I think we can expect that Pierre will be pretty decent....considering how poorly he started.

 

And that's where you have that calculus....if Dunn/LaRoche/Scott, etc., aren't going to put us over the top, then DeJesus certainly isn't going to do the trick either.

 

And they're going to ask for Flowers/Hudson or something like that, certainly not justifiable in a season where we've been pretty bad except for this recent 10-1 stretch against inferior competition.

 

Fielder would be a typical KW move, but budgetarily the numbers just don't make any sense going forward. I think this is one of those seasons you have to stick with what you have and hope that Quentin/Beckham can get going and Viciedo can hold his own, with Vizquel spelling him defensively.

 

A LOT better. At this point, DeJesus is a guy who is at least a 2-3 win upgrade over Pierre.

 

And Carlos isn't producing runs, he's just driving them in.

 

Run production and RBI differ in a A LOT of ways.

Edited June 22, 2010 by chw42

[jamesdiego]

I'd say Berkman, just because he should be the easiet to attain. Hell, they should be practically giving him away with his salary and performance this year. Berk's agent last month was demanding teams pick up his huge option for next year, so they'd have to drop that crap. You know teams are gonna demand all our good prospects for all the others, to me it's not worth it.

[chw42]

I'd say Berkman, just because he should be the easiet to attain. Hell, they should be practically giving him away with his salary and performance this year. Berk's agent last month was demanding teams pick up his huge option for next year, so they'd have to drop that crap. You know teams are gonna demand all our good prospects for all the others, to me it's not worth it.

 

I'd think LaRoche would cost less.

[BearSox]

Adding DeJesus is not going to come cheaply. How much better is he really going to be than Pierre? I think we can expect that Pierre will be pretty decent....considering how poorly he started.

 

And that's where you have that calculus....if Dunn/LaRoche/Scott, etc., aren't going to put us over the top, then DeJesus certainly isn't going to do the trick either.

 

And they're going to ask for Flowers/Hudson or something like that, certainly not justifiable in a season where we've been pretty bad except for this recent 10-1 stretch against inferior competition.

 

Fielder would be a typical KW move, but budgetarily the numbers just don't make any sense going forward. I think this is one of those seasons you have to stick with what you have and hope that Quentin/Beckham can get going and Viciedo can hold his own, with Vizquel spelling him defensively.

He's on pace for 22 RBI and 14 doubles, not to mention he's batting a boastful .250 with an OPS below .600 and well below average defense... he better pull off some serious magic if he wants his season to be anywhere remotely near decent. DeJesus is leaps and bounds better.

[iamshack]

He's on pace for 22 RBI and 14 doubles, not to mention he's batting a boastful .250 with an OPS below .600 and well below average defense... he better pull off some serious magic if he wants his season to be anywhere remotely near decent. DeJesus is leaps and bounds better.

That's not true. His defense has been outstanding in left.

 

He certainly has not been Rickey Henderson, but he's doing a reasonably decent job stealing bases and an outstanding job of playing LF. He's the least of our problems right now.

[Kalapse]

He's on pace for 22 RBI and 14 doubles, not to mention he's batting a boastful .250 with an OPS below .600 and well below average defense... he better pull off some serious magic if he wants his season to be anywhere remotely near decent. DeJesus is leaps and bounds better.

Juan Pierre has been f***ing amazing in LF, outside of Carl Crawford he has arguably the best range of any LF in the game.

[greg775]

Juan won me over with the hit against the Cubs. A no hitter against them really truly would have sucked.

 

Also I may be mistaken but it seems like he's been getting on base 2-3 time a game a lot of late.

And the good D in left is great.

He's OK. I would rather have somebody else next year, though, but he's won me over even though I guess his RBI totals are horrific.

[pktmotion]

I would imagine that he played something like 18 games against those 5 teams. You can't use 18 games as a justification that a player is going to be good against the AL if he were to make the transition.

 

I understand the sample size, I was just handcuffed at work today to thoroughly find/calculate the numbers. Dunn's career average AL OPS is .896 and that's in 128 games, which again is still a small size. But .896 is very respectable. His best numbers come against Toronto, Texas, KC, and Detroit.

 

Dunn is a slugger. I personally was pulling for him in 2008, when he was a free agent and we were after Abreu. Before that I think he put up 40 HR/Season 3 out of 4 years. If the Sox acquire him, which is slightly a pipe dream, no one here should have cause to complain. He'll do fine.

[Vance Law]

well below average defense...

 

Fangraphs has Pierre as the 2nd best LF in baseball behind Crawford, and yes that's even with taking into account his weak arm.

Rios #5 CF

Quentin 2nd worst RF behind Ethier.

 

[Vance Law]

Dunn is a slugger. I personally was pulling for him in 2008, when he was a free agent and we were after Abreu. Before that I think he put up 40 HR/Season 3 out of 4 years. If the Sox acquire him, which is slightly a pipe dream, no one here should have cause to complain. He'll do fine.

 

Dunn would be a big boost to our offense agreed. At this stage, he is basically a better Jim Thome than Jim Thome. But you destroy a ton of his value by putting him in Left Field. Pretty sure he was routinely beating Manny for baseball's biggest defensive liability. And we didn't need a 1B or DH then. He'd be a big boost now, but as others have mentioned, I think Washington would rather just keep him unless someone makes a big offer.

 

I also wouldn't mind a time machine so we could pick up Aubrey Huff last offseason for $3 million to do exactly what Kotsay does, except Huff is putting up a .933 OPS and San Fran isn't a super hitter friendly park.

 

 

[justBLAZE]

Fangraphs has Pierre as the 2nd best LF in baseball behind Crawford, and yes that's even with taking into account his weak arm.

Rios #5 CF

Quentin 2nd worst RF behind Ethier.

 

Quentin can't be that bad..

 

Bobby Abreu sitll playing RF in LAA?

[hogan873]

I think Juan Pierre could hit .750 with a bunch of RBIs and a ton of stolen bases, and there would still be tons of hate towards him. The guy had a very poor start but has turned it around over the last month+. He's getting on base more, and is usually stealing when he does. He will not have many RBIs, will probably not hit a HR, but that's okay. His defense has been much better than average in LF as well.

 

That being said, he's not going anywhere, and there's no way he becomes a bench player. If the Sox acquire a lefty power hitter who is an outfielder, I don't see Juan losing much playing time. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing as a lead-off guy. I'd like to see his BA up more, and I think it'll happen. We can complain all day about the trade to acquire him or what he gets paid, but it doesn't change anything.

[Lemon_44]

Power is definitely lacking and while a lefty would be ideal, a guy with power from the right side is also attractive. The guy i'd want, and have wanted for a couple years, is Corey Hart. You put him in RF ,move Quentin DH and the lineup looks alot better. He's not making a ton of money and the Brewers are going to have to move somebody if they want to assemble some kind of ML pitching staff. I think it would be hard to get him without using Hudson though and,while i'm not usually a prospect guy who believs the hype, i would be hesistant to trade Hudson as he looks like he'll be the real deal.

[Dick Allen]

I think Juan Pierre could hit .750 with a bunch of RBIs and a ton of stolen bases, and there would still be tons of hate towards him. The guy had a very poor start but has turned it around over the last month+. He's getting on base more, and is usually stealing when he does. He will not have many RBIs, will probably not hit a HR, but that's okay. His defense has been much better than average in LF as well.

 

That being said, he's not going anywhere, and there's no way he becomes a bench player. If the Sox acquire a lefty power hitter who is an outfielder, I don't see Juan losing much playing time. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing as a lead-off guy. I'd like to see his BA up more, and I think it'll happen. We can complain all day about the trade to acquire him or what he gets paid, but it doesn't change anything.

I'm really not a Pierre basher, but your info is incorrect. Juan Pierre has a .315 OBP. The last 28 days his OBP is .314 with a .213 BA. He hasn't turned it around. He had a hot streak, then a cold one. He hasn't been good this year. A leadoff hitter has to do better than he's doing.