If we do get back in this. . .

[WCSox]

If Teahen's really our third best position player, I'd still rather have Snopek/Norton/Herbert "Milkman" Perry down there. Quite a few complained when Joe Crede would be a mid 700's OPS guy (mostly due to his lack of walks), and he was one of the 2-3 best defenders in baseball most seasons. Teahen is one of the 2-3 worst, if not THE worst.

 

Vizquel and Viciedo? Yes. Just to have the alliteration with the two "V's" together.

 

The problem with this approach is that neither of these guys can hit. As bad as Teahen is at 3B, he's been the fourth-best hitter on the roster. If you want to move him from 3B, you need to find a way to keep him in the lineup.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Then I guess you cross your fingers and DH Teahen, hope he gets hot and leave the Viciedo/Vizquel combo at 3B, with Viciedo/Jones/Kotsay also getting some AB's at DH.

 

I don't know what you do with Jones now. Just hope he can get hot again or release him...seems it's him or Viciedo as the next roster decision, although his defensive abilities make him hard to cut, even if he can't hit his way out of a paper bag.

 

When is Teahen actually supposed to come back?

[witesoxfan]

The problem with this approach is that neither of these guys can hit. As bad as Teahen is at 3B, he's been the fourth-best hitter on the roster. If you want to move him from 3B, you need to find a way to keep him in the lineup.

 

Why can't Viciedo hit?

[WCSox]

Then I guess you cross your fingers and DH Teahen, hope he gets hot and leave the Viciedo/Vizquel combo at 3B, with Viciedo/Jones/Kotsay also getting some AB's at DH.

 

I don't know what you do with Jones now. Just hope he can get hot again or release him...seems it's him or Viciedo as the next roster decision, although his defensive abilities make him hard to cut, even if he can't hit his way out of a paper bag.

 

DHing Teahen wouldn't be a bad idea. If you want a rotating DH, Teahen/Jones is a much better option than Kotsay/Jones. Of course, that also puts Vizquel in the lineup every day, which is an offensive drag.

 

I would hope that Teahen moves to a corner OF position next year.

 

[WCSox]

Why can't Viciedo hit?

 

Last I heard, he's not anywhere near ready to hit ML pitching.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Why can't Viciedo hit?

 

 

Because of Gordon Beckham, Jordan Danks and Tyler Flowers stumbling this year apparently.

 

Because he's a White Sox position prospect.

 

Because KW signed him.

 

I'm not sure why there is the assumption Mark Freakin' Teahen has more upside offensive THIS season than Viciedo. It's going to take Teahen a couple of weeks just to get back to game speed. If Viciedo can catch fire (en fuego), why not ride the hot rookie like we did with Beckham for 2-3 months last season?

 

Maybe it's the assumption he will make one error per game at 3B? I don't know. It can't be worse than Teahen down there, and he's got Vizquel for the games we're leading late.

 

Or we have the option of moving Omar to 2B (we're not moving Alexei over) and playing Viciedo there...if Beckham can't pull out of it in the next couple of weeks.

If I were manager, I'd really have Viciedo in there almost every game and see what we have in him...I wouldn't be DHing Kotsay over Dayan, I know that much.

Edited June 23, 2010 by caulfield12

[iamshack]

Last I heard, he's not anywhere near ready to hit ML pitching.

Well I'm curious as to who you heard that from. I wish Kenny would talk to that person, if that is indeed accurate.

[WCSox]

I'm not sure why there is the assumption Mark Freakin' Teahen has more upside offensive THIS season than Viciedo. It's going to take Teahen a couple of weeks just to get back to game speed. If Viciedo can catch fire (en fuego), why not ride the hot rookie like we did with Beckham for 2-3 months last season?

 

Maybe it's the assumption he will make one error per game at 3B? I don't know. It can't be worse than Teahen down there, and he's got Vizquel for the games we're leading late.

 

Because, as mediocre as Teahen is at the plate, he's hit major-league pitching reasonably well for several years. Viciedo is 21 years old and is JUST beginning to hit minor-league pitching.

 

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. And you don't throw an unknown into the lineup when you're still in the hunt.

 

[witesoxfan]

Last I heard, he's not anywhere near ready to hit ML pitching.

 

- .298/.353/.606/.959 in May

- .302/.351/.547/.898 in June

- K% (in terms of ABs) of 17.7% in May and June

- .365/.431/.827/1.258 against LHP

 

He won't draw many walks at this point in time, and he'll almost certainly struggle against RHP, but he can hit, and it appears as though he will destroy LHP right now.

[caulfield12]

Yes, but Gordon Beckham and Carlos Quentin were supposed to be "known" quantities in the line-up, too.

 

Who's to say Viciedo hasn't just had everything "click" for him in the last 6-8 weeks and he can carry it forward for the rest of the season....

 

I really believe more in Viciedo at this point (in our ballpark) than Teahen/Beckham/Quentin. Call me crazy. Just a feeling.

[WCSox]

- .298/.353/.606/.959 in May

- .302/.351/.547/.898 in June

- K% (in terms of ABs) of 17.7% in May and June

- .365/.431/.827/1.258 against LHP

 

He won't draw many walks at this point in time, and he'll almost certainly struggle against RHP, but he can hit, and it appears as though he will destroy LHP right now.

 

Viciedo also sucked balls last season. Agreed that he's looked nice over this very small sample size, but there's still little evidence that he's ready for the bigs. Numerous Sox prospects have raked for several years in the minors/college and have struggled big-time in Chicago. Throw Viciedo's age and your assesment that he won't hit RHP effectively into the equation and I see little reason to bring him up right now. Let him have a sustained year of success first. Given that he's unlikely to help this hapless team this year, his development should be paramount.

 

That said, letting him face major-league pitching when the rosters expand later in the year might not be a bad idea.

 

Edited June 23, 2010 by WCSox

[WCSox]

I really believe more in Viciedo at this point (in our ballpark) than Teahen/Beckham/Quentin. Call me crazy. Just a feeling.

 

That feeling is commonly known as "desperation."

Edited June 23, 2010 by WCSox

[witesoxfan]

Viciedo also sucked balls last season. Agreed that he's looked nice over this very small sample size, but there's still little evidence that he's ready for the bigs. Numerous Sox prospects have raked for several years in the minors/college and have struggled big-time in Chicago. Throw Viciedo's age into the equation and I see little reason to bring him up right now. Let him have a sustained year of success first.

 

To say Viciedo sucked balls last season is a bit of a stretch. He was a 20 year old living in a foreign country virtually on his own playing baseball. If that's not culture shock, I don't know what is. After an adjustment period (namely, his terrible April, where he put up a .511 OPS in about 80 PAs), he went on to have a pretty solid season (about a .750 OPS) while being 4 years younger than the league. I'd say that's a pretty good season. It was calculated at one point in time that, with a rough translation of his AA stats to I believe high-A, he would have put up an OPS of like .875.

 

 

And the reason he's coming up now is because he's put up a .900 OPS over his past 160 plate appearances. He's hot, the Sox have depth concerns at 3B, and he's the most ready for the task. If, by chance, he gets hot for a while and wins a game or two, it's perfectly acceptable. If not, it's a hell of a lot better to see where his game is at opposed to seeing the mediocrity that is Jayson Nix at the hot corner considering that there is a chance that he'll be thrown into the fire at the opposite side of the diamond next year.

[WCSox]

To say Viciedo sucked balls last season is a bit of a stretch. He was a 20 year old living in a foreign country virtually on his own playing baseball. If that's not culture shock, I don't know what is. After an adjustment period (namely, his terrible April, where he put up a .511 OPS in about 80 PAs), he went on to have a pretty solid season (about a .750 OPS) while being 4 years younger than the league. I'd say that's a pretty good season. It was calculated at one point in time that, with a rough translation of his AA stats to I believe high-A, he would have put up an OPS of like .875.

 

So you're basically saying that he was rushed big-time last year. So why rush him again this year? Again, he's only 21.

 

And the reason he's coming up now is because he's put up a .900 OPS over his past 160 plate appearances.

 

Small sample size against significantly inferior pitching.

 

He's hot, the Sox have depth concerns at 3B, and he's the most ready for the task. If, by chance, he gets hot for a while and wins a game or two, it's perfectly acceptable. If not, it's a hell of a lot better to see where his game is at opposed to seeing the mediocrity that is Jayson Nix at the hot corner considering that there is a chance that he'll be thrown into the fire at the opposite side of the diamond next year.

 

I don't see the point in taking at-bats away from Viciedo while he's still developing as a hitter. He's obviously not going to be an every-day player in Chicago. You even projected that he won't hit RHP well, so what's the point?

 

The Sox are a lot more than a lucky hot streak from Viciedo away from being true contenders, so stunting his growth "for the good of the team" makes little sense.

 

[witesoxfan]

So you're basically saying that he was rushed big-time last year. So why rush him again this year? Again, he's only 21.

 

Not at all. There's nothing wrong with challenging a very talented player at a tough level of competition. He more than held his own.

 

Small sample size against significantly inferior pitching.

 

Which is another way to state "hot streak in AAA." Beyond that, any increased productivity in the minor leagues, especially by a 21 year old in AAA, have to be looked at as some sort of development, wouldn't you agree? You can surely make the argument that a player performing very well for 25% of the season is a small sample size, but it's all we have to judge him on.

 

I don't see the point in taking at-bats away from Viciedo while he's still developing as a hitter. He's obviously not going to be an every-day player in Chicago. You even projected that he won't hit RHP well, so what's the point?

 

I would imagine it's because the Sox believe that Viciedo can hit a fastball, and that he can hit LHP better than Jayson Nix. Getting a young player acquainted to some sort of major league lifestyle can also have its own benefits as well. Beyond that, seeing how he actually handles major league pitching is a good stepping stone as well.

 

I truly believe you are reading too far into the Sox calling up Viciedo. I don't believe it's a big deal either way, and I don't think calling him up for a month or so is really going to stunt his growth as a player.

[WCSox]

I would imagine it's because the Sox believe that Viciedo can hit a fastball, and that he can hit LHP better than Jayson Nix.

 

Aside from the fact that Nix isn't the only one capable of playing the position. It makes more sense for me to have Vizquel play 3B until Teahen comes back.

 

Getting a young player acquainted to some sort of major league lifestyle can also have its own benefits as well. Beyond that, seeing how he actually handles major league pitching is a good stepping stone as well.

 

It's better to do this in September, giving Viciedo 9 extra weeks of at-bats.

 

I truly believe you are reading too far into the Sox calling up Viciedo. I don't believe it's a big deal either way, and I don't think calling him up for a month or so is really going to stunt his growth as a player.

 

I'm not so sure that he's only staying for a month, which is my point of contention. My feeling is that Kenny is desperate right now, just as he was last year with Beckham.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

DHing Teahen wouldn't be a bad idea. If you want a rotating DH, Teahen/Jones is a much better option than Kotsay/Jones. Of course, that also puts Vizquel in the lineup every day, which is an offensive drag.

 

I would hope that Teahen moves to a corner OF position next year.

Dude...

[caulfield12]

This has been the problem with every White Sox position prospect the past decade, they've had to perform in pretty high pressure situations, with the exception of Fields/Owens in 2007.

 

Many players like Borchard, Fields and Brian Anderson simply couldn't deal with it. Maybe they would have succeeded in smaller markets, with a team capable of being more patient.

 

Then you have players like Rowand and Crede that essentially required 2-3 years to really become the true starter.

 

Beckham and Viciedo are kind of exceptional case studies, and you certainly can't count A. Ramirez or Iguchi as rookies.

 

Quentin was "almost" like a rookie, but, once again, he wasn't developed in our system either.

[WCSox]

Dude...

 

???

 

[caulfield12]

Twins lose, 4 1/2 games back now, 3 behind the Tigers.

 

BTW, you might want to pick up Axford from the Brew Crew if you want a new ROTO closer.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Because, as mediocre as Teahen is at the plate, he's hit major-league pitching reasonably well for several years. Viciedo is 21 years old and is JUST beginning to hit minor-league pitching.

 

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. And you don't throw an unknown into the lineup when you're still in the hunt.

First off, Teahen has no business taking any playing time from Omar Vizquel as long as #11 is breathing. Even if Omar never gets another hit the rest of the year he's still better than Mr. Swiss Cheese over there, and at least Omar can handle the bat. So Viciedo vs. Teahen really shouldn't even be a discussion right now.

 

Secondly, Mark Teahen hitting MLB pitching "reasonably well" isn't much of an endorsement when you factor in what a huge pile of s*** he is on defense. Viciedo should in no way lose playing time because of Teahen. Vizquel is another story, as long as we're winning.

 

The best thing Mark Teahen can do for this ballclub is stay the hell off of it.

[SoxAce]

Viciedo also sucked balls last season. Agreed that he's looked nice over this very small sample size, but there's still little evidence that he's ready for the bigs. Numerous Sox prospects have raked for several years in the minors/college and have struggled big-time in Chicago. Throw Viciedo's age and your assesment that he won't hit RHP effectively into the equation and I see little reason to bring him up right now. Let him have a sustained year of success first. Given that he's unlikely to help this hapless team this year, his development should be paramount.

 

That said, letting him face major-league pitching when the rosters expand later in the year might not be a bad idea.

 

You are way all over the place with this post, with alot of hyperbole mixed into it. "sucked last season" "very small sample size" "little evidence?" I will agree with the last sentence that I also see no reason to rush him up and the full year in AAA might have helped, etc.. but if Buddy Bell and the sox org. think he is ready (especially against LHP which is alot of evidence in both AA and AAA he is ready for them) then I trust their judgment (I didn't think Beckham was ready last year despite hitting like .290 especially with limited PA in the minors but he was impressive though this year is another story [i'm sure people will blame whoever for that]).

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

???

Need I explain? Jesus Christ. The Royals already tried that. Mark Teahen is a s***ty outfielder too. And why the f*** would anyone expect - much less HOPE - for Mark Teahen to be in any of our future outfields? Have some f***ing expectations why don't you.

[Thad Bosley]

First off, Teahen has no business taking any playing time from Omar Vizquel as long as #11 is breathing. Even if Omar never gets another hit the rest of the year he's still better than Mr. Swiss Cheese over there, and at least Omar can handle the bat. So Viciedo vs. Teahen really shouldn't even be a discussion right now.

 

Secondly, Mark Teahen hitting MLB pitching "reasonably well" isn't much of an endorsement when you factor in what a huge pile of s*** he is on defense. Viciedo should in no way lose playing time because of Teahen. Vizquel is another story, as long as we're winning.

 

The best thing Mark Teahen can do for this ballclub is stay the hell off of it.

I'm all for that.

 

Meanwhile, an upgrade at the DH spot would help justify carrying Omar's bat (read: his glove at 3rd) in the lineup. Sort of reminds this old bird of 1983 when the Sox decided to go with Aurelio Rodriguez' outstanding defense at third base, despite his below-average bat. If we could just upgrade at DH, along with a return to form by CQ and Bacon, we might just be in business here.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'm all for that.

 

Meanwhile, an upgrade at the DH spot would help justify carrying Omar's bat (read: his glove at 3rd) in the lineup. Sort of reminds this old bird of 1983 when the Sox decided to go with Aurelio Rodriguez' outstanding defense at third base, despite his below-average bat. If we could just upgrade at DH, along with a return to form by CQ and Bacon, we might just be in business here.

That sounds like a great plan, and something tells me that that would make our pitchers very happy.