This win streak...how much credit goes to Ozzie?

[Pants Rowland]

Squert are you personally offended we only won 1-0?

Did you watch the entire game and sob because we didn't score 4-5? Our lineup has sucked with Paulie and Rios in it as well.

Were you so convinced we were going to win 8-0 with Rios and Paulie or one of the two you couldn't enjoy the game?

 

I don't understand the problem here. It was a good game and the White Sox won and they won again the next day.

What is the problem here? I don't get it.

 

I am beginning to think you are Ozzie Guillen trolling SoxTalk.

[iamshack]

Most managers with half a brain rest one player on Saturday and the other on Sunday. Those are our only legitimate hitters on our team right now. Plus the entire team had a day off on Monday.

But it's not so simple.

 

If you believe you can win a game with both of them on the bench one day, then you kill two birds with one stone.

 

Just because other managers do something one way doesn't mean a damned thing.

 

I wasn't happy about the lineup when I saw it, but I also said at the time that Ozzie probably thinks we either had a chance to win without them both or that we had no chance at all because of Peavy's physical condition, so he figured he would rest them both Saturday.

 

Given the way this lineup has been hitting we may be too weak to even sit one of them and risk losing both games.

[BigSqwert]

But it's not so simple.

 

If you believe you can win a game with both of them on the bench one day, then you kill two birds with one stone.

 

Just because other managers do something one way doesn't mean a damned thing.

 

I wasn't happy about the lineup when I saw it, but I also said at the time that Ozzie probably thinks we either had a chance to win without them both or that we had no chance at all because of Peavy's physical condition, so he figured he would rest them both Saturday.

 

Given the way this lineup has been hitting we may be too weak to even sit one of them and risk losing both games.

 

Given Peavy's post game reaction he didn't seem too thrilled with the lineup Ozzie constructed on Saturday. I hope the team doesn't start losing confidence in Ozzie....if they haven't already.

[greg775]

I am beginning to think you are Ozzie Guillen trolling SoxTalk.

 

Sorry about the misspelling Sqwert but it's just a nickname. You could spell Gregg like that and I don't care.

 

It's just taking this to a new low I feel second guessing a lineup that won the game. And Sqwert you haven't answered why you are so worked up about a 1-0 victory. Is it that you were uncomfortable the whole game or ? We won man.

Edited June 22, 2010 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

It's just taking this to a new low I feel second guessing a lineup that MIRACULOUSLY won the game.

fixed

[fathom]

Sorry about the misspelling Sqwert but it's just a nickname. You could spell Gregg like that and I don't care.

 

It's just taking this to a new low I feel second guessing a lineup that won the game.

 

 

It's not second guessing..it was first guessing. Go back and look at the game thread!!

[iamshack]

Given Peavy's post game reaction he didn't seem too thrilled with the lineup Ozzie constructed on Saturday. I hope the team doesn't start losing confidence in Ozzie....if they haven't already.

But Ozzie doesn't answer to Jake Peavy.

 

Jake insisted on pitching, and so Ozzie said here, win with this lineup like you should. Either that, or he had very little confidence in him and figured he would use the chance to rest two of his sluggers.

[greg775]

You guys who first guessed or second guessed ... that's fine.

But with all due respect your right to first guess or second guess was erased when Oz won the game.

You continue to harp on that game and we won. Oz won.

You guys lost this argument because Oz and the team won the game; why not move on?

 

Is he being graded on style points, margin of victory?

Edited June 22, 2010 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

why not move on?

 

Because we're in a thread that was created to discuss Ozzie's decision-making for this past road trip.

[greg775]

OK, my bad on the why not move on.

 

It is a thread.

But you act like Oz failed the team that day and the fans.

He failed nobody.

The Sox got the W. There is no proof Paulie and/or Rios would have excelled. There is no proof the day off helped them excel on Sunday.

The FACTS are we won both games.

Oz deserves huge credit for both victories.

[chw42]

It would probably be something like "one game doesn't make or break a season".

 

What's funny is that one game has meant just about everything in this division the past two years.

 

[chw42]

You guys who first guessed or second guessed ... that's fine.

But with all due respect your right to first guess or second guess was erased when Oz won the game.

You continue to harp on that game and we won. Oz won.

You guys lost this argument because Oz and the team won the game; why not move on?

 

Is he being graded on style points, margin of victory?

 

Ozzie didn't win the game. If anything, he had a negative impact on that game by sitting our two best hitters.

 

How else do you think we only got one run off of freaking J.D. Martin?

[shakes]

While I agree with you, getting a day off for Paulie and Rios with Peavy on the mound against the Nationals is one of the reasons why Peavy was brought here. He is supposed to be an ace. He is paid to be an ace. This is one of the luxuries an ace allows you.

 

I'm happy he stepped up to the plate and hopefully the rest afforded the two sluggers will pay dividends this week.

 

 

This is a great point. I think it showed a lot of confidence in Peavy and it was great to see him rise to the occasion.

 

It was a calculated risk and it paid off. I think Ozzie should be commended for that. Konerko and Rios were overdue for a day off and looked it. It was nearly 100 degrees in D.C. this weekend and it was a day game following an extra innings night game. Some guys were going to need rest. Maybe, one or both of them asked for a day off, or were not even feeling well. There is more that goes on in a clubhouse than we hear about. Either way they came back looking good and the Sox won both games. It's hard to believe three days later that people are still upset about this.

Edited June 22, 2010 by shakes

[greg775]

Great post, Shakes.

How can anybody disagree with what Shakes wrote???

Ozzie is da man.

 

I'm gonna go have a spangles strawberry shake in honor of shakes.

Edited June 22, 2010 by greg775

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The bad decisions are always remembered and the good ones forgotten; every time a pinch hitter succeeds or fails, every time a relief pitcher gives up runs or gives up nothing, every time a lineup is constructed one way or another, every time there's a defensive change, every stolen base or caught stealing, every hit and run , every suicide squeeze .You ( meaning all of us) question things constantly so when the Sox lose you can feel vindicated and when they win you can quietly wait for your next chance to be right. Just win baby and if you don't we got the reasons why !

 

Few good decisions have been mentioned here. Didn't Kotsay get a pinch hit ? Wasn't there a successful suicide squeeze? Viciedo's 1st appearance was against a leftie to make the kid have a better chance of a successful debut.

[fathom]

OK, my bad on the why not move on.

 

It is a thread.

But you act like Oz failed the team that day and the fans.

He failed nobody.

The Sox got the W. There is no proof Paulie and/or Rios would have excelled. There is no proof the day off helped them excel on Sunday.

The FACTS are we won both games.

Oz deserves huge credit for both victories.

 

Jake Peavy deserves credit for Saturday, end of story

[fathom]

The bad decisions are always remembered and the good ones forgotten; every time a pinch hitter succeeds or fails, every time a relief pitcher gives up runs or gives up nothing, every time a lineup is constructed one way or another, every time there's a defensive change, every stolen base or caught stealing, every hit and run , every suicide squeeze .You ( meaning all of us) question things constantly so when the Sox lose you can feel vindicated and when they win you can quietly wait for your next chance to be right. Just win baby and if you don't we got the reasons why !

 

Few good decisions have been mentioned here. Didn't Kotsay get a pinch hit ? Wasn't there a successful suicide squeeze? Viciedo's 1st appearance was against a leftie to make the kid have a better chance of a successful debut.

 

Yep, nowhere in this thread did I mention that walking Dunn in the 9th was a ballsy, but very smart move by Ozzie.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yep, nowhere in this thread did I mention that walking Dunn in the 9th was a ballsy, but very smart move by Ozzie.

I said few not none . I saw your post.

[Marty34]

Most here on Soxtalk wouldn't know a good manager if they hit them in the face. The starters, the offense, and defense have been miserable so far and people honestly think Ozzie should have them up by 5.

[chw42]

Most here on Soxtalk wouldn't know a good manager if they hit them in the face. The starters, the offense, and defense have been miserable so far and people honestly think Ozzie should have them up by 5.

 

He hasn't helped any of that by batting Mark Kotsay 5th whenever he can and keeping Randy Williams on this team.

 

Yes, when your players suck, that's not all your fault. But when you know they suck and you keep playing them just because you can, that's bad managing.

[Balta1701]

Most here on Soxtalk wouldn't know a good manager if they hit them in the face. The starters, the offense, and defense have been miserable so far and people honestly think Ozzie should have them up by 5.

But...there's one more point where Ozzie is supposed to come in. Even Ozzie defenders typically don't say he's a great in game manager, and they'll disagree with his moves such as lineups, putting people in motion, or bullpen decisions. But the thing he's supposed to be good at is getting the most out of his players; putting them in positions where they can succeed and motivating them. If his players aren't performing even to the standard that they have set in previous years, then I wonder what good he's doing.

 

Now that his players are starting to perform...that's what we should be seeing.

[fathom]

Most here on Soxtalk wouldn't know a good manager if they hit them in the face. The starters, the offense, and defense have been miserable so far and people honestly think Ozzie should have them up by 5.

 

The defense actually hasn't been miserable. I also would say that 2005 has completely blinded some people relating to Ozzie. But you know what...he can keep letting Buehrle pitch to Vernon Wells with the bases loaded in the 8th inning of a one run game as long as my 2005 CWS WS DVD keeps working!

[chw42]

The defense actually hasn't been miserable. I also would say that 2005 has completely blinded some people relating to Ozzie. But you know what...he can keep letting Buehrle pitch to Vernon Wells with the bases loaded in the 8th inning of a one run game as long as my 2005 CWS WS DVD keeps working!

 

Quickly, somebody burn all the 2005 World Series DVDs in existence!

 

On a side note, that DVD was horribly produced.

[iamshack]

The defense actually hasn't been miserable. I also would say that 2005 has completely blinded some people relating to Ozzie. But you know what...he can keep letting Buehrle pitch to Vernon Wells with the bases loaded in the 8th inning of a one run game as long as my 2005 CWS WS DVD keeps working!

I agree, that move was horrendous. And I was watching the Toronto broadcast and their broadcasters were absolutely flabbergasted.

 

If Ozzie has a weakness, it is sticking with his SP too long. But if Ozzie has a strength, it is sticking with his SP long enough.

 

You guys can question Ozzie all you want - that's your right - but it's damned hypocritical to give him all the blame when we suck and none of the credit when we win.

[caulfield12]

I know one thing, if the best choices for the organization are Cora and Bell, forget it.

 

As much as I think LaRussa can be an a-s, at least the players would have to respect him. Do they really respect or fear Cora? And Bell's reputation as a manager? Of course, he had some abysmal Tigers teams, but what has he done for this organization exactly to change the minor league system around so dramatically?

 

We do know that he recommended Teahen, one of the most questionable and puzzling contract decisions (along with Linebrink getting four years) KW has made in recent memory. I guess the extension was supposed to be an injection of confidence that his future was with the SOX?

Edited June 22, 2010 by caulfield12