AND THAT'S A WHITE SOX WINNER!!!

[Felix]

Because they don't keep score or anything...

Totally, because RBIs are completely dependent on the player at bat and no one else on the team.

 

Did anyone actually read what he said? He didn't say they were meaningless, he said they were overrated. Do you actually think RBIs are a good way of judging an individual players talent? Even if you're the best player in baseball, if no one is on base in front of you, you won't rack up high RBI totals. Obviously better players create more run producing situations, but without teammates that get on base, it doesn't matter how good a hitter you are.. you aren't going to get a lot of RBIs. There are much better metrics for evaluating an individual that take the team's impact out of the equation.

[chw42]

Here's an idea of how good Carlos has been.

 

In one week, he's brought up his OPS from .700 to .756, that's what home runs can do.

 

In the same span, he's upped his wOBA from .310 to .330, he's now an average offensive player, with an RC+ of exactly 100. Despite being so bad for the past two months.

 

His slugging percentage has gained nearly 40 points.

 

I don't know about you, but I think Carlos figured something out.

Edited June 24, 2010 by chw42

[whitesoxfan101]

Carlos hasn't looked this good since the last week of 09.

 

Well that's the encouraging part. He's not just being opportunistic at times and getting RBI's because Rios and Konerko are on base in front of him all the time. He's hitting a lot better overall the last week or so, and his slugging percentage is on a major climb (which is obviously really important for him). That RBI total will tickle the fancy even more if he can hit for power, because Konerko and Rios show no signs of not continuing to be on base in front of him.

Edited June 24, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[chw42]

And it looks like the pitches Carlos has hit for home runs these past couple of days have been pitches up in the strike zone.

 

This is really good news considering Carlos is a dead low ball hitter. Yet, he's hitting the high mistake pitches hard, something he didn't do before this year.

[whitesoxfan101]

Totally, because RBIs are completely dependent on the player at bat and no one else on the team.

 

Did anyone actually read what he said? He didn't say they were meaningless, he said they were overrated. Do you actually think RBIs are a good way of judging an individual players talent? Even if you're the best player in baseball, if no one is on base in front of you, you won't rack up high RBI totals. Obviously better players create more run producing situations, but without teammates that get on base, it doesn't matter how good a hitter you are.. you aren't going to get a lot of RBIs. There are much better metrics for evaluating an individual that take the team's impact out of the equation.

 

Yep. Q has an inflated RBI total to a certain degree because he's been a WAY better hitter with men on base (which means i'm sure somebody will say he's "clutch" too, lol), but his numbers with men on base and the bases empty will level out eventually (hopefully more towards the ones with men on base). The biggest reason for his inflated RBI total is the amount of chances he's had. It's great to hit way better with men on base, but it doesn't mean a lot if they aren't there much. Fortunately for Q, he's in the one spot in the lineup where there are men on base all the time (behind our two best players).

Edited June 24, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Balta1701]

And it looks like the pitches Carlos has hit for home runs these past couple of days have been pitches up in the strike zone.

 

This is really good news considering Carlos is a dead low ball hitter. Yet, he's hitting the high mistake pitches hard, something he didn't do before this year.

You'll note too that he's hit inside pitches out to LF twice and an outside pitch out to RF last night, so he's legitimately hitting the ball everywhere.

[chw42]

You'll note too that he's hit inside pitches out to LF twice and an outside pitch out to RF last night, so he's legitimately hitting the ball everywhere.

 

Yup, something is clicking.

 

Maybe he just decided to ignore Greg Walker?

[Balta1701]

Yup, something is clicking.

 

Maybe he just decided to ignore Greg Walker?

Maybe he started listening to him?

[whitesoxfan101]

Maybe he started listening to him?

 

I wonder if anybody will give Walker any credit for Rios ever.

[chw42]

Maybe he started listening to him?

 

We'll never know.

[chw42]

I wonder if anybody will give Walker any credit for Rios ever.

 

Don't treat Rios like Brent Lillibridge, the guy has all the talent in the world. It's not like Walker turned Lindsay Lohan back to normal or something.

 

That said, he should get credit for moving Rios' hands down.

[iamshack]

Yep. Q has an inflated RBI total to a certain degree because he's been a WAY better hitter with men on base (which means i'm sure somebody will say he's "clutch" too, lol), but his numbers with men on base and the bases empty will level out eventually (hopefully more towards the ones with men on base). The biggest reason for his inflated RBI total is the amount of chances he's had. It's great to hit way better with men on base, but it doesn't mean a lot if they aren't there much. Fortunately for Q, he's in the one spot in the lineup where there are men on base all the time (behind our two best players).

But you needed to qualify your statement.

 

Yes, when evaluating a player, you should not weigh his RBI total too heavily. However, when evaluating how valuable that player has been to the team's success, his RBI total is one of the most important numbers one can look at, at least a player who has Q's role on our team.

[whitesoxfan101]

But you needed to qualify your statement.

 

Yes, when evaluating a player, you should not weigh his RBI total too heavily. However, when evaluating how valuable that player has been to the team's success, his RBI total is one of the most important numbers one can look at, at least a player who has Q's role on our team.

 

Well I think Q has helped the team in the sense he's made a ton of outs with the bases empty and put up a lot of numbers with men on base, so that distribution is a plus. I don't think that's a skill though, I just think it's a fluke of good fortune that won't last. He just needs to be a good hitter in general and overall, and the good news is he's shown signs of that recently.

[iamshack]

Well I think Q has helped the team in the sense he's made a ton of outs with the bases empty and put up a lot of numbers with men on base, so that distribution is a plus. I don't think that's a skill though, I just think it's a fluke of good fortune that won't last. He just needs to be a good hitter in general and overall, and the good news is he's shown signs of that recently.

My guess is you're probably right...I doubt he has developed some penchant to get hits when runners are on base but not when the bases are empty.

 

But the bottom line is, he has done it up to this point, and he has been valuable to this team because of it. Does that mean he should be expected to continue to only hit well with runners on base? No. But the simple fact is that he has up until now, and that cannot be overlooked.

[whitesoxfan101]

My guess is you're probably right...I doubt he has developed some penchant to get hits when runners are on base but not when the bases are empty.

 

But the bottom line is, he has done it up to this point, and he has been valuable to this team because of it. Does that mean he should be expected to continue to only hit well with runners on base? No. But the simple fact is that he has up until now, and that cannot be overlooked.

 

I will say up until the recent improved streak, he was as valuable as a high 600's OPS guy who doesn't play overwhelming defense could possibly be.

[iamshack]

I will say up until the recent improved streak, he was as valuable as a high 600's OPS guy who doesn't play overwhelming defense could possibly be.

As the Hawkeroo would say, "Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it."

 

[Vance Law]

We'll never know.

 

Precisely, we will never know. All we do know is that Soxtalk posters will continue to disproportionately ascribe blame to Walker for the failings of any hitter rather than give credit for their successes.

 

 

Is Quentin qlutch? I don't know. But look at:

 

Konerko, for example, for his career:

 

.273/.346/.498/.844 with no one on

.284/.363/.489/.851 with runners on

 

Quentin for his career:

.215/.309/.434/.743 with no one on

.293/.385/.544/.929 with runners on

 

Does Quentin manage to focus more with men on? Does he just hit a lot better when the pitcher is out of the stretch?

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Precisely, we will never know. All we do know is that Soxtalk posters will continue to disproportionately ascribe blame to Walker for the failings of any hitter rather than give credit for their successes.

 

 

Is Quentin qlutch? I don't know. But look at:

 

Konerko, for example, for his career:

 

.273/.346/.498/.844 with no one on

.284/.363/.489/.851 with runners on

 

Quentin for his career:

.215/.309/.434/.743 with no one on

.293/.385/.544/.929 with runners on

 

Does Quentin manage to focus more with men on? Does he just hit a lot better when the pitcher is out of the stretch?

 

Wow, thanks for those numbers, that's bizarre. The Konerko splits there are typical, but those Q numbers are hard to explain. I simply don't buy that you can just focus more and perform better with men on base. But maybe he does lose concentration with the bases empty or something, but even that is really strange.

[witesoxfan]

NL teams or not, the Sox have now won four consecutive series and are trying to sweep a third straight. This team has got its stuff together, and it started with the pitching. If it keeps up, and Quentin earns the T back in his name, the Sox can go back to playing AL teams and beat them, too.

 

And speaking of Quentin, RBIs are hardly meaningless. It is amazing, though, that he could end up with over 100 RBIs with an average below .240. I hope he's back, because if he is this team just gets more dangerous.

 

Five

[hogan873]

Five

Oh, yeah. I was thinking they lost the Tigers series, but it was the pesky Indians before that.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if anybody will give Walker any credit for Rios ever.

 

They sure used him an example of why Walker sucks last year...